Watt Wagon direct competitors?

[m@Robertson]

Titanium, <40 lbs, 3800 watts. Seems to good to be true (although battery is ridiculously undersized - probably last 15 minutes at top power). https://www.chimeracycles.com/home. Maybe someone knowledgeable can let me know if this is for real or a scam (its going up on Indiegogo next month).


View attachment 127786

The fact that they use a lightweight, skeletonized chain is not the sign of a builder with experience that has spanned much in the way of time. Although zooming in on the pics at the web page bottom MIGHT be showing the bike in action with a standard chain. Also, titanium is not the metal you want to use for a rigid bottom bracket, which is necessary for a powerful mid drive (been there, done that). This construction, which looks to integrate the gear reduction into the frame in a sort of second bottom bracket - is different from anything else I've seen, though. It might be rigid. Maybe.

 

[Leon S. Kennedy]

The fact that they use a lightweight, skeletonized chain is not the sign of a builder with experience that has spanned much in the way of time. Although zooming in on the pics at the web page bottom MIGHT be showing the bike in action with a standard chain. Also, titanium is not the metal you want to use for a rigid bottom bracket, which is necessary for a powerful mid drive (been there, done that). This construction, which looks to integrate the gear reduction into the frame in a sort of second bottom bracket - is different from anything else I've seen, though. It might be rigid. Maybe.

Thank you for the feedback. Looks like this bike will be $4500. A bit too pricey for me to risk on an indiegogo

 

[TomD]

Been there done that ha. But yeah, that doesn't look like it's going to end well.

 

[Leon S. Kennedy]

Been there done that ha. But yeah, that doesn't look like it's going to end well.

Its a BMX, so its rigid (no front or rear suspension) and has no gears. It also has a miniscule battery. With those specs it has a very limited use and definitely not for me at $4500. Looks like its just good for people who like to do BMX tricks and for short & fast on-road rides. I'm also a bit suspicious of high priced indiegogos.

EDIT: Also not pedal assist (no torque or cadence sensor), just throttle. Another negative for me.

The seller claims to have a novel motor design that puts out high wattage with small size and very low weight. If they are accurate and this is successful, maybe we will see this motor on other types of bikes in the future.

 

[m@Robertson]

The seller claims to have a novel motor design that puts out high wattage with small size and very low weight. If they are accurate and this is successful, maybe we will see this motor on other types of bikes in the future.

Thats kind of what I was getting at in my original comments. We're likely talking about a large drone motor with some savvy secondary gearing to tame it. Its not a completely unique idea. Look to the old, now-defunct Tangent Ascent. Or the Kranked Performance motor. I don't think the innovation is there so much on the motor as it is on the motor mount and in-frame secondary setup. And integrating the BAC 855 mount into the seatpost clamp is quite clever. The threaded holes on the controller have always been there. Nobody has thought to use them like this.

The triangle of this bike is decent-sixed. There's room to improve that battery size with a custom pack. But doing your own doesn't make financial sense. I'll be interested to see if they patent what we see on the bottom bracket and seat tube of that bike.

 

[Leon S. Kennedy]

This ebike seems like an impossibility - Carbon fiber wheels/frame, 1000 watt motor, 48 volt, 36 amp-hour battery, 32 pounds - $2800. Is there any way this is not a scam? - https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/freetech-ebike-175-mile-range-15-min-charge/x/13387950#/

I think the charge time is the giveaway its a scam. 15 minutes for that size battery is impossible unless its using some high voltage rapid charger you see for electric cars.

 

[loamoaf]

Charge time on that page doesn't specify what 'fast charge' means or to what percentage. Wording on some of the descriptors is kind of gimmicky, the touch control function on the display seems stupidly annoying (I'm looking at new cars and am annoyed at how many use touch controls in lieu of real buttons) and then we never actually see the bike turn more than like 10 degrees. The square joint between the stem and body looks like it limits movements. If you look at products like this one https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-graphene-professional-12000mah-6s-15c-lipo-pack-w-xt90.html the description says some of their graphene batteries are good for 15C fast charging which honestly is kind of insane - charging in 4 minutes. But the capacity of the battery is highly suspect given the price and size of the frame. Also the part 1 video where the guy is like 'I've ridden a lot of ebikes and this one is just next level insane bro woah dude it's on a whole 'nother level!' - yea right. I see a low price, heavy promo material, big claims, and a ton of sensors - and no notable bicycle anything other than vague mention of a Shimano 10-speed (Tourney?)

Also for a good chuckle their different sizes are just scaled up photos, so no available renders of properly sized products? That's some Amazon marketplace product imagery there

 

[ProphetZarquon]

View attachment 134054

If I could actually get normal products, scaled up 30%...

 

[m@Robertson]

I took a peek at their web site and it looks like they DID learn something since last year. I mentioned above that using skeletonized chain was a bad idea. They are now using half-link chain which is the smart move for a 5kw motor where you want to keep bicycle-spaced chainrings (i.e. not go to a kart chain/drivetrain). I did a half-link on my Cyclone-powered Stump that peaked at 4kw.