Wanted: Lightweight (less than 20kg), high Torque (90NM), Motor offering large amount of power 500w+, removable large battery

[Aneesa Chaudhry]

**caugh, caugh**

Brose

E-Bike Tuning

www.ebiketuning.com

Here's where i'm at with this Timpo, Aneesa
You guys are amazing. Thanks for all taking the time to try and genuinely help me work out how to find a solution. So the main thing i'm getting is that I may not need as much torque as I think I do for steep hills if the power on the motor is sufficient.
So, what i've found so far is this:
I tried a Cube Acid- pretty darn good in so many ways but struggled up the steep hills and is too heavy to lift up our steep 45 degree stairs into the house.
I tried Ezego- Pretty good too but struggled up steep hills (thanks for explaining fazua may not be as powerful as bosche/ yamaha etc) and whilst only 20kg it was heavy pushing it up the steps even with the walk assist. (The walk assist cut out but it was still awkward holding the button down at that angle)
I tried a Trek powerfly on a less steep hill but the power in it was awesome! Whilst tempted to get one it was a heavy bike that I couldn't lift at all up steps which almost rules it out sadly as i liked the power it had.
I tried a motus raleigh which was terrible up steep hills and heavy.

I tried a Focus Paralane2 - lovely and light and without the battery I could pick it up easily which was fab but it was a big sluggish going up the steep hills. This is where I guaged what I needed for torque since this was close to what I feel I need in terms of power, just it was lacking a little in terms of power on the hills. The torque was 60 or 70 i believe so something this light with more power on the hills would be ideal. Focus don't have a rack on that bike though and don't recommend putting one on and I need to have a rack for panniers.

I don't need to go up hills fast, just say between 10mph-12mphr
What do you think is closest to what I need?
Thanks again, you've all been SO helpful!
Aneesa, UK

 

[Scott Adams]

Ohh.. what motor does it have?

Mahle

 

[Aneesa Chaudhry]

This has a fauza evation motor which is a bit underpowered. While nominal motor output is 250W (they are all magically 250W nominal to comply with the regs), I think peak output is only 400W. Note Court's review of a bike with the fauza system he indicates:

BULLS WILD FLOW EVO RS Review | ElectricBikeReview.com

Price: $5999.00 | Model Year: 2019, 2020 | A light 42lb full suspension cross country electric mountain bike with premium blacked-out paint job and ALL accessories, comfortable carbon fiber main frame (alloy rear triangle), the battery and motor are built into one removable drivepack that can be...

electricbikereview.com

I think if you went with a performance mid drive from one of the other motor brands you would be fine (even without 90nm torque) as they put out 500W (or more) peak power.



I believe these use rear hub motors which struggle on hills due to not being able to use the bike's gears and further handicapped by the 250W nominal limit in the UK. You will do much better with a 250W mid drive since it can leverage the bike's gears (unlike rear hub motors). In the US rear hub motors are more popular as they are inexpensive and the nominal limit is 750W so much more power can be delivered to offset the disadvantages on hills.

Here's where i'm at with this TOMDAV,
You guys are amazing. Thanks for all taking the time to try and genuinely help me work out how to find a solution. So the main thing i'm getting is that I may not need as much torque as I think I do for steep hills if the power on the motor is sufficient.
So, what i've found so far is this:
I tried a Cube Acid- pretty darn good in so many ways but struggled up the steep hills and is too heavy to lift up our steep 45 degree stairs into the house.
I tried Ezego- Pretty good too but struggled up steep hills (thanks for explaining fazua may not be as powerful as bosche/ yamaha etc) and whilst only 20kg it was heavy pushing it up the steps even with the walk assist. (The walk assist cut out but it was still awkward holding the button down at that angle)
I tried a Trek powerfly on a less steep hill but the power in it was awesome! Whilst tempted to get one it was a heavy bike that I couldn't lift at all up steps which almost rules it out sadly as i liked the power it had.
I tried a motus raleigh which was terrible up steep hills and heavy.

I tried a Focus Paralane2 - lovely and light and without the battery I could pick it up easily which was fab but it was a big sluggish going up the steep hills. This is where I guaged what I needed for torque since this was close to what I feel I need in terms of power, just it was lacking a little in terms of power on the hills. The torque was 60 or 70 i believe so something this light with more power on the hills would be ideal. Focus don't have a rack on that bike though and don't recommend putting one on and I need to have a rack for panniers.

I don't need to go up hills fast, just say between 10mph-12mphr
What do you think is closest to what I need?
Thanks again, you've all been SO helpful!
Aneesa, UK

 

[Marci jo]

Aneesa,
You've come to the right place to get info. These are all great responses.
Maybe you need to decide your most important criteria. Is it weight in order to haul it up the steps? Maybe power to fly up the hills at 10-12 mph. Maybe getting up those hills at a lower speed is ok?
OR
Wait a few years. The speed of changing technology may offer all your desired features in one ebike.

 

[Aneesa Chaudhry]

Aneesa,
You've come to the right place to get info. These are all great responses.
Maybe you need to decide your most important criteria. Is it weight in order to haul it up the steps? Maybe power to fly up the hills at 10-12 mph. Maybe getting up those hills at a lower speed is ok?
OR
Wait a few years. The speed of changing technology may offer all your desired features in one ebike.

Hi Marci
I guess the most important thing is weight to get it up the stairs to our house followed by ease of riding up steep hills. The Cude acid, Trek powerfly, focus were all pretty good. It doesn't need to be new either! I'd rather now than wait a few years as i really want to reduce my car use overall and get fitter but don't want to buy an expensive bike that'll sit indoors. What do you think are my best bets?

 

[Marci jo]

Here's my two cents worth of opinion:
Research the heck out of the new Specialized Vado SL. It's advertised as 14.5 kg and I've seen some videos of people running up steps while carrying this bike on their shoulders. It's very tempting for me as my current Vado is over 23 kg and it is a beast to lift, even though I love it. My second ebike weighs in at 20.4 kg including the battery but not sure I could lift it up a full flight of steps.

Lifting is a struggle for me because I have wimpy arms and a slightly disabled wrist. My first ebike test ride was back in 2015 and at that time the bike weighed 29 kg. Could not lift that beast even an inch off the ground!!

And I agree with your idea to test riding whatever you are considering.

 

[Cyklefanatic]

Ohh.. what motor does it have?

It’s made by Mahle to Specialized specifications.

 

[Cyklefanatic]

Hi Marci
I guess the most important thing is weight to get it up the stairs to our house followed by ease of riding up steep hills. The Cude acid, Trek powerfly, focus were all pretty good. It doesn't need to be new either! I'd rather now than wait a few years as i really want to reduce my car use overall and get fitter but don't want to buy an expensive bike that'll sit indoors. What do you think are my best bets?

Because weight is so important to you would a stand up electric scooter work? There are some with larger wheels and suspensions that offer a smooth fast ride. They don’t weigh much and fold up for easy lifting and storage. Just trying to think outside the box.

 

[Ebiker33]

Even a carbon fiber Ebike is heavy comparatively.
This bike is 57 pounds or 26 Kg
It also answers your hill issue's, but the price is probably higher than you want to spend.
Watt Wagon

I have Sondors with only 20" wheels that folds and that Ebike is 70 lbs, a large Ebike battery can easily add 10 lbs to any bike.
Have you considered a design that easily removes the battery when lifting it ?

 

[Ebiker33]

@Timpo yes but the point is simply this, if the lightest bike frames in the industry are still too heavy for somebody wanting an Ebike it is a difficult thing to attain and achieve without sacrificing the quality of the other components. I guess if you pulled all the suspensions off and went with a smaller Brose magnesium motor with a 36V battery you might start getting there.

 

[FlatSix911]

You guys are amazing. Thanks for all taking the time to try and genuinely help me work out how to find a solution. So the main thing i'm getting is that I may not need as much torque as I think I do for steep hills if the power on the motor is sufficient. So, what i've found so far is this:

I tried a Cube Acid- pretty darn good in so many ways but struggled up the steep hills and is too heavy to lift up our steep 45 degree stairs into the house.
I tried Ezego- Pretty good too but struggled up steep hills (thanks for explaining fazua may not be as powerful as bosche/ yamaha etc) and whilst only 20kg it was heavy pushing it up the steps even with the walk assist. (The walk assist cut out but it was still awkward holding the button down at that angle)
I tried a Trek powerfly on a less steep hill but the power in it was awesome! Whilst tempted to get one it was a heavy bike that I couldn't lift at all up steps which almost rules it out sadly as i liked the power it had.
I tried a motus raleigh which was terrible up steep hills and heavy.

I tried a Focus Paralane2 - lovely and light and without the battery I could pick it up easily which was fab but it was a big sluggish going up the steep hills. This is where I guaged what I needed for torque since this was close to what I feel I need in terms of power, just it was lacking a little in terms of power on the hills. The torque was 60 or 70 i believe so something this light with more power on the hills would be ideal. Focus don't have a rack on that bike though and don't recommend putting one on and I need to have a rack for panniers.

I don't need to go up hills fast, just say between 10mph-12mphr
What do you think is closest to what I need?
Thanks again, you've all been SO helpful!
Aneesa, UK

Based on your feedback on the bikes listed above, I think the Specialized Turbo Vado SL @37 lbs. might be a good match.
Also look at the eMulekick @35 lbs... both are super lightweight bikes with integrated batteries and Class 3 speeds @28 mph.

https://electricbikereview.com/specialized/turbo-vado-sl-4-0-eq/

http://www.bikesdirect.com/products...tric-flatbar-road-bikes-emulekick-express.htm

 

[Cyklefanatic]

Based on your feedback on the bikes listed above, I think the Specialized Turbo Vado SL @37 lbs. might be a good match.
Also look at the eMulekick @35 lbs... both are super lightweight bikes with integrated batteries and Class 3 speeds @28 mph.

https://electricbikereview.com/specialized/turbo-vado-sl-4-0-eq/

http://www.bikesdirect.com/products...tric-flatbar-road-bikes-emulekick-express.htm

View attachment 53454View attachment 53456

What we seem to have here is a failure to communicate!
She is asking for a 28.6 pound bike and people keep posting bikes way heavier than that weight. If the battery is not easily removed it becomes part of the weight of the bike.
So for those of you that failed math the 37 pound Vado SL is much heavier than the 28 pounds she can handle. Please only post bikes that actually meet her requirements. If it is over 28 pounds don’t suggest it. And don’t forget to include the weight of the rack in the 28 pounds.

 

[FlatSix911]

What we seem to have here is a failure to communicate!
She is asking for a 28 pound bike and people keep posting bikes way heavier than that weight.
So for those of you that failed math the 37 pound Vado SL is much heavier than the 28 pounds she can handle.
Please only post bikes that actually meet her requirements. If it is over 28 pounds don’t suggest it. And don’t forget to include the weight of the rack in the 28 pounds.

I think you may be right regarding communication... no one has found the 28 lb unicorn Ebike that meets her power requirements.
Therefore, we are suggesting alternatives that are very close to the specs that are lightweight and provide adequate power... YMMV.

 

[Cyklefanatic]

I think you may be right regarding communication... no one has found the 28 lb unicorn Ebike that meets her power requirements.
Therefore, we are suggesting alternatives that are very close to the specs and are lightweight and provide adequate power... YMMV.

But why suggest something that she is clearly unable to lift? It doesn’t help her. Better to say what she wants doesn’t exist.

 

[FlatSix911]

But why suggest something that she is clearly unable to lift? It doesn’t help her. Better to say what she wants doesn’t exist.

BTW, you can always remove the 5-6 lb battery when carrying the bike up steep stairs to reduce the weight to an acceptable level.

 

[vincent]

Evidently that is not true anymore

my friend just bought a specialized full suspension something and the shop told her the battery is hard to remove- the bike must be flipped over and I don’t know what else
They told her not to remove it for hauling on the rack etc

she is having the same issue with lifting the bike into her truck bed or onto her other cars bike rack

was horrified I did not tell her to get something else, thought she would like the brose more than Bosch...

did not know this was a thing on the new specialized mtn bikes ... or at least some of them

 

[Alex M]

Please only post bikes that actually meet her requirements. If it is over 28 pounds don’t suggest it. And don’t forget to include the weight of the rack in the 28 pounds.

And with hill climbing capability.

It appears that the 1st response on the 1st page still holds - there is no such bike, not off the shelves. Took only 4 pages

 

[FlatSix911]

Evidently that is not true anymore

my friend just bought a specialized full suspension something and the shop told her the battery is hard to remove- the bike must be flipped over and I don’t know what else
They told her not to remove it for hauling on the rack etc
she is having the same issue with lifting the bike into her truck bed or onto her other cars bike rack

was horrified I did not tell her to get something else, thought she would like the brose more than Bosch...
did not know this was a thing on the new specialized mtn bikes ... or at least some of them

Actually the battery is easy to remove on the eMulekick @33-35 lbs less the battery weight and you are under 30 lbs.

http://www.bikesdirect.com/products...s-electric-gravel-road-bikes-emulekick-sl.htm

 

[Ebiker33]

So in the end meeting both goals can't be done, however this one comes close, as I said in a previous post, all carbon fiber including forks.
This lacks power but at some point you have to decide between power and weight. 41 lbs this is pretty much as light they come, with a removable battery it might be as little as 35 lbs.
Daymak EC2

Also less total weight and I am assuming the lady weighs less than the average 200 lbs man, always more pull than a 75 pound bike with 200 lb rider, you don't need as much power anyways.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Also look at the eMulekick @35 lbs... both are super lightweight bikes with integrated batteries and Class 3 speeds @28 mph

(Not allowed in the UK where she lives).