US proposes 25% tariffs on Chinese ebikes

[Ebikefevercure]

"They" created an economy dependent on China. "He" drops a tariff

"He" is the the center of "they" (lol figuratively and Literally) for this term and most likely another. The monster walks Left foot then Right foot slowly 8 years a step, all the same beast. At Least my lifetime, objectively.

 

[gv1]

I don’t think a tariff will stimulate ebike production in the USA. Plus Bafang and TDCM (in Taiwan which should not be affected) are the only mass production motor suppliers offering motors greater than a measly 350W.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

In business the margin only suffers as long as it has too. Then letters are sent for the need to increase, essentially raising consumer costs. I run a bankable multimillion dollar company too. The cost is ALWAYS passed on to the bottom man. Every Derber knows that...

Also known as inflation

So that's why the airline companies raise fares when fuel prices go up and post record profits... wait. no.

So please explain why airline companies lose BILLIONS of dollars when fuel prices go up? If they truly could pass those costs to consumers that would not happen.

 

[MisterM]

I don’t think a tariff will stimulate ebike production in the USA. Plus Bafang and TDCM (in Taiwan which should not be affected) are the only mass production motor suppliers offering motors greater than a measly 350W.

Agreed. There's zero point zero chance the tariffs will stimulate ebike production in the US. Chinese manufacturers are notorious for playing tariff whack-a-mole. They'll just move to another country. Very easy to avoid tariffs, especially since all it requires is some relatively low-tech, low-skill assembly work. It's harder for capital-intensive industries like steel or high-tech solar panels, where physical cost of building a mill or high-tech assembly lines is prohibitive.

These tariffs are simply a massive tax on US consumers, and are hugely counter-productive. It's ironic that China is surgically targeting Trump's base with their retaliatory tariffs.

 

[Ebikefevercure]

So that's why the airline companies raise fares when fuel prices go up and post record profits... wait. no.

So please explain why airline companies lose BILLIONS of dollars when fuel prices go up? If they truly could pass those costs to consumers that would not happen.

See you don't know everything... Airports are SUBSIDIZED.... like McDonald's and beef. Does their burger prices change with market... nope they don't... does for us in the grocery store though doesn't it, why woukd that be? We're not subsidized are we, derp... So, clear enough?

 

[Dynamo Dan]

These import tariffs are a politic game, they have nothing to do with economics and will hurt the US economy more than they will help it. If you believe that these tariffs will stimulate US bike manufacturers, set up your own company, make these products and see whether you can compete. You will fail. The only outcome here is that the extra cost of importing ebikes and there components will be higher prices for consumers. The cost of tariffs will be passed on to the end consumer. The USA will never be able to compete with China manufacturers. Trump is just posturing to his trailer trash electorate. No intelligent person thinks that his trade war tirade will benefit the US or anyone else.

 

[Dewey]

The Pedego dealer in Alexandria, VA, has tweeted that Don DiCostanzo will be attending a meet and greet on Tuesday at 5pm, likely he is in DC to lobby the US Trade Representative to remove ebikes from the list of proposed tariffs, he is on the BPSA ebike committee. The public comment process has been published in the federal register if you want to submit a written comment you have til July 23.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

See you don't know everything... Airports are SUBSIDIZED.... like McDonald's and beef. Does their burger prices change with market... nope they don't... does for us in the grocery store though doesn't it, why woukd that be? We're not subsidized are we, derp... So, clear enough?

Apparently I don't.

Please explain to me how the US airline industry, which has been deregulated since the Carter administration, received subsidies which cause it to lose billions of dollars whenever fuel prices rise. Also, please explain to me how airport subsidies would make cause airlines to bleed money when fuel prices rise.

The simplest and clearest explanation is that air travel is a hyper-competitive market, and when prices rise fewer people fly and since an airline's costs are relatively fixed, they start losing money hand over fist if they can't fill their airplanes.

I agree that there are some situations where price increases don't significantly change consumer behavior (economists refer to this as inelastic demand). One example is with salt, which is so cheap that even if you increased its price tenfold most consumers wouldn't change their behavior. Another is a monopoly service like old-style phone service, where the service is essential to live in a modern world and there aren't any alternatives -- although that was true in the short term that monopoly is one of the forces that created the world we live in today where there are a bewildering array of cell-phone providers all competing viciously on price.

 

[Ann M.]

Moving production of motors & lithium cells (remember where the largest mines of lithium ore are, not here) and all sorts of bike components is not an overnight project. It takes years to build a major production plant; particularly one handling as sensitive a material as a lithium cell.

If people will remember, with previous administrations and world organizations pushing for more humane treatment of workers and some focus on the environmental impact of manufacturing (water & air contamination, overuse of resources impacting locals) the US and other countries helped to improved the quality of life for Chinese workers and in other countries. Focus on quality control at overseas manufacturing facilities has improved the quality of products we consume. This benefits everyone.

As an ebike dealer who does more conversions and repairs than selling pre-built bikes, the impact on my business from the tariffs is now, not 3 or 4 months from now. The ebike motors and lithium battery cells are already on the tariff list that goes into effect next week. There is no debating that. And for the ebike manufacturers, they will still be facing tariffs on Chinese made components even if they get the whole bike off the upcoming tariff list. So what some industry people have said about too bad if we lose some dealers or small manufacturers due to the 30% cost increases is cold and short sited. We need more ebike dealers and small independent manufacturers, not less. There are too few specialty ebike shops right now and the manufacturers who think this is an ok "shakeup" are ones who make a lot of income from internet sales. Supporting a dealer network is a challenging and expensive process for the manufacturers, along with the challenges of creating viable marketing of products. These are reasons why companies shift focus to internet sales.

I haven't seen the tariff lists for EU sourced products, so don't be so certain that motors by Bosch and other EU manufacturers are not going to be an issue in the future if not now. Besides, some of the products like Bosch motors require special OEM frames which makes for a more expensive product.

Lots to consider.

I request that everyone posting on this thread stay on topic, no more airports or airline subsidies and please be respectful of your fellow EBR members with your tone and language.

 

[Alex M]

Tariffs will do very little to rebuild the US bike manufacturing. IMO, his methods are primitive, and besides, this is the case of "too little, too late".

Humane treatment of Chinese workers and better quality control on their factories will do nothing at all to improve the said US industry. More likely, this will adversely affect whatever remains of the US manufacturing. Though I doubt that much can be done "from the outside" to improve that treatment and quality, given their political regime and the resulting mentality of most population.

 

[AlanDB]

Ask Harley-Davidson if tariffs work to bring back (or keep) manufacturing in the US. To paraphrase our Potus from a completely different issue: "Who knew trade policy was so complicated?" Well, apparently lots of experts (of which he isn't one).

 

[MisterM]

Apparently I don't.

Please explain to me how the US airline industry, which has been deregulated since the Carter administration, received subsidies which cause it to lose billions of dollars whenever fuel prices rise. Also, please explain to me how airport subsidies would make cause airlines to bleed money when fuel prices rise.

The simplest and clearest explanation is that air travel is a hyper-competitive market, and when prices rise fewer people fly and since an airline's costs are relatively fixed, they start losing money hand over fist if they can't fill their airplanes.

I agree that there are some situations where price increases don't significantly change consumer behavior (economists refer to this as inelastic demand). One example is with salt, which is so cheap that even if you increased its price tenfold most consumers wouldn't change their behavior. Another is a monopoly service like old-style phone service, where the service is essential to live in a modern world and there aren't any alternatives -- although that was true in the short term that monopoly is one of the forces that created the world we live in today where there are a bewildering array of cell-phone providers all competing viciously on price.

? Airlines are a poor example of a free and competitive market.
Mergers have effectively eliminated domestic competition in the last decade (United/Continental, American/USAirways, Delta/Northwest) - and profits have exploded regardless of price of fuel. The airlines have made more money in the last decade than the rest combined. From fatuous "fuel surcharges" that were imposed when oil was $100 (but kept even when oil dropped to $35-50), to less leg room, to narrower seats, to thin-as-cardboard cushions, to elimination of food and beverage service, to baggage fees, and most important of all, removal of excess capacity thru wink-wink anti-competitive behavior, it's been a profit-fest for airlines.

 

[Dewey]

Article by Lloyd Alter published on the Treehugger blog "Trump's tariffs may kill the e-bike revolution".

 

[Figs]

Hey Dan. I’m one of those “Trump is just posturing to his trailer trash electorate” people. But unlike you I respect my fellow human beings. If you lived nearby I’d enjoy getting together for a ride. But, I realize you are special and part of the elite class.

I don’t live in a trailer, but even if I did it would not make me any less of a person than you. Happy 4th!

 

[Dewey]

The Shift Up podcast by Arleigh Greenwald recently posted an interview with Matt Moore, general counsel at QBP who does work for the legislative committees of the BPSA/People for Bikes, about the bicycle industry’s response to the tariffs.

 

[Deleted member 4210]

My prediction: 25% tariffs won't happen on ebikes.

Here is why:
1. There is no US manufacturers of ebikes, that the Chinese can put out of business or take jobs from.

2. This harms US small business more than it harms the Chinese. (i.e. retailers that sell EBikes, and there are many like the Pedego store owners, who are simply small ma and pa bike shops selling these ebikes).

3. The ebikes are also made in Taiwan and other places. Giant has one of its largest bike factories in Taiwan. Ebike Firms could shift to Taiwan in a pretty quick manner. Capacity exists there for more.

4. Ebikes are still a very very small market here, and so putting a 25% tariff on an ebike, is a tiny tiny dent in the massive trade deficit we have with China. In otherwords, its a big fat nothing-burger to the Chinese. They will find other ways to get their products to the US. Besides that, they are selling 1000 times more elsewhere, so the US is just not a big market for them for ebikes (yet anyway). Trump generally doesn't deal with small potatoes like this - so some moron in his administration some how got ebikes on the 'list'. It'll be dropped once the bike lobbyist
'clue' the moron in on his poor choice of a product to 'tariff.'

Chill people. And Keep buying E-bikes !

 

[charlie g]

https://www.bicycleretailer.com/ind...ses-25-tariff-china-made-e-bikes#.WyoWcvJlAad

Another ridiculous tax on US consumers.

 

[p0ppyman]

Those who lost jobs exported have the benefit of the goods they need at vastly lower prices.

My take, agreeing with others, is this subject is too complicated to dissect in an online forum. But what is very clear to me is when those people lost their jobs they also lost their dignity. Lower prices will not restore a person's dignity.

 

[rimfirematt]

"He" is the the center of "they" (lol figuratively and Literally) for this term and most likely another. The monster walks Left foot then Right foot slowly 8 years a step, all the same beast. At Least my lifetime, objectively.

that's the best political analogy I have ever heard

 

[Ann M.]

Note to all bike shop owners and small manufacturers of custom ebikes, Fact: Electric Bikes & fully built Lithium Battery Packs ARE on the 2nd list of tariffs that is being considered to go into effect at the end of August or early Sept. Electric bike motors & Lithium cells had their tariff go into effect yesterday, 07/06/18. This is not a point of contention it is Real. These items are already subject to the tariff without any easy way to remove them. Unless our industry's submissions to the commission reviewing the 2nd list of items subject to the 25% tariff are accepted, we WILL also see whole ebikes and whole lithium batteries increase in price. We have until July 23rd to make submissions online. Many of our manufacturers & importers went to D.C. already to do presentations in person. DO NOT Make Assumptions that our products are going to vanish off this next tariff list, just because.

Here is some information about how to make your voice heard on this matter during the comment period from one of my suppliers:

"You may submit your statement to the USTR by following the link https://www.regulations.gov/document?D=USTR-2018-0018-0001. Please click on the blue box Comment Now! at the right top corner of the page. We suggest that you read the View Commenter's Checklist (PDF) prior to submitting your comment so you understand what they are looking for in the public comments they receive.

Remember, you only have until July 23rd to submit your comment. Electric Bicycles are an important commodity because these are inexpensive, eco-friendly safe modes of transportation. Increasing the price will greatly affect the American consumers. Lets do what we can to try to prevent this spike in costs."