Upgrades to my XM700+

Larry,

Yes, the 500 works great on the XM. Motostrano seems to be the only one publicly mentioning availability. It has to be shipped as HAZMAT as it contains a large amount of exothermic material. My Trek PowerFly came from the factory with a 500 and I swap them around all the time.

It is so fun to be able to ride a bike again!

As far as the UK Persona, on my iPhone 7, I changed the AppleID in Settings - downloaded the e-connect application - restored my US appleID.

jeff
 
Larry,

Yes, the 500 works great on the XM. Motostrano seems to be the only one publicly mentioning availability. It has to be shipped as HAZMAT as it contains a large amount of exothermic material. My Trek PowerFly came from the factory with a 500 and I swap them around all the time.

It is so fun to be able to ride a bike again!

As far as the UK Persona, on my iPhone 7, I changed the AppleID in Settings - downloaded the e-connect application - restored my US appleID.

jeff

I had asked my dealer to see if they could upgrade me to the 500 but they never got back to me. Do you know how much it would cost to buy one outright? My goal would be to go at least 32 miles on a charge, which I suppose if I could keep it on the lower two levels 50-75% of the time and only hit turbo mode for 25-50% of the ride?

As far as Apple ID, I'd imagine you also have to authorize the syncing computer for both Apple IDs, as they let you have up to five IDs authorized per computer (and up to 5 computers per ID).
 
Well, I have a dilemma, from issues on multiple fronts, and need help with a decision. Mostly about bike size, but a little about whether I picked the wrong bike style just to get the more powerful Bosche 350W vs 250W motor (while trying to figure out how the 250W gets 75NM torque vs only 63 from the 350W motor).

The bike came in and is at the bike shop. It would have been ready this weekend but Trek shipped it without a key to remove the battery. So the Trek representative has to come to the shop early next week (Mon/Tues) to re-key the battery lock. He is willing to give me the lock core and keys from his Trek Powerfly so that I don't have to wait too long to get new ones. I have no idea how he plans to remove the current lock core when the battery is locked onto the bike (it shipped assembled, wheels and all, except for the handle bars not installed).

Unfortunately, in the meantime this 50mm bike is very tall for me, and it's the smallest XM700+ they make. Just standing over the top tube is a "nut crusher". I'm 5-9 (215 lb) with a 30" inseam for my pants (31" pants tend to drag the ground a little) and the standover is about 80mm, which is 31.5". I've only owned mountain bikes for the past 25 years and a tall road bike is new to me. When straddling the top tube I can only lift the bike front tire up 1/4 to 1/2" before my nuts are in my throat and it won't go higher, and the dealer says this is normal.

Not only is the top tube a nut crusher, but with the proper seat height to reach the pedals with full leg extension I can only get one foot down on the ball of the foot if I don't come off the seat. If I don't slide off the seat I feel like I'll fall over, and again the dealer says this is normal.

If I slide forward off the seat to straddle the top tube (not recommended as per above) then I barely have any room between the seat and handle bars to maneuver the bike at a walking pace. This is because the bike with swept back bars may be too short in length for me (yet too tall at the same time). The shop wants me to try it with a 90x100 stem at 15-17 degrees to move the bar up and forward so I still have a relaxed riding position and weight off my wrists.

Next, the suspension travel seems much shorter than 35mm (about half that), and I wanted to be able to ride a few trails with my wife on her Neko+ and I'm worried that the street tires and short travel will be a problem. That's why I considered the Paragon Gold forks that Jeff is rocking, and maybe losing the street tires and fenders for larger and more aggressive knobby tires. But without fenders I'd still only be able to go up to a 42 or 45 tire to fit inside the fork and rails (it has 40c on the bike now).

Additionally, I'm being told that some bikes are too fast to be allowed onto some trails, and that the XM700+ could get me into trouble here in Colorado. I'm sold on only the Bosche system (no Shimano please), and wanted the 350W motor on the XM700+ as I'm 215 lbs with one working lung at 6000+ feet, and need to be able to climb 800 feet over 2.7 miles to get back to my house, with a grade that varies from 2% to 10% (avg 6%). I had no idea at the time the Powerfly Bosche CX motor had 20% more torque. My understanding is that more torque will get me moving more quickly (grunt), and more power will keep me moving more easily (speed), and I need climbing power and distance more than speed.

After a short test ride (1 mile) my Intuvia display says I'll get 53 miles on ECO, 27 miles on TOUR, 23 miles on SPORT, and 19 miles on TURBO mode. My wife's Neko+ display right now says she'll get 58 miles in ECO, 48 in NORM, and 43 in SPORT on a single charge. That's a lot more range than mine, unless I don't use anything higher than ECO mode. I really want closer to 30 miles minimum for some of the rides that we'll do, and I was going to add the 500WH battery to get me there. The 500WH already comes on the Powerfly 7/8FS+ and it will hit my goal of 30 miles in SPORT mode (level 3/4) vs 23 for the XM700+. And I'm told it will do 43 miles in TOUR (level 2/4) vs 27 for XM700+.

It was only today that I saw that the Powerfly 7/8FS+ has more torque (75 NM vs 63NM) despite only 250W, and just gives less top speed and more range in return. I won't be commuting with my bike on the streets (except to go down to the shopping center at the bottom of Cheyenne Mountain). Rather, we'll be riding on both paved and gravel bike paths most of the time, plus a few trails that can be fairly bumpy and loose. I picked the XM700+ more for the 350W power than it's 28MPH top speed. I won't be going faster than 20 if I want my wife to keep up and not make me suffer later for leaving her in my dust, but I need the 63-75 NM of torque from the Bosche over the 50NM from the Shimano drive on the Dual Sport+ and Neko+.

If I upgrade my suspension and tires, and maybe order a 500WH battery pack, I'll be closer to the price of the Powerfully 7 or 8S. With those I'll only need a handlebar stem riser (and maybe new bars) to get to a less aggressive riding position with less weight on my hands. I've only made a deposit on the bike, and I don't pay the balance until I take delivery (after they get the battery lock core and keys replaced).

Basically my concerns in a nut shell are:
(1) is it too tall ?
(2) is it not long enough ?
(3) is 400WH not enough juice for distance on the 350W motor ?
(4) is the 75NM/250 watt motor with 500WH battery and 20MPH top speed a better choice for me wanting increased ride range and climbing hills (vs 63NM/350W/400WH)?
(5) On the Trek website it says top speed for power assist on the Powerfly 7/8FS+ is 20MPH in one spot, and 15MPH in another spot. So which is it?
(6) is the XM700+ speed-pedelec too fast to legally take on many off-road mountain bike trails, and how badly will the front mono-shock hold it back on slower off-road rides?

ADVICE PLEASE: Should I just take a step back and have them order a Powerfly 7 or 8FS+, and then do the stem riser on that bike to get the weight of my old wrists? I have to know if the upgrade to 75NM torque in the PF7 or 8FS+ is enough to offset it's less powerful 250W motor for climbing hills vs the XM700 350W/63NM motor.

PS: if the riding position is too aggressive my right hand will go to sleep after 15 minutes - not counting the Lift+ that I don't want, the XM700+ is the least aggressive of the Trek eBikes.
 
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Not much on advice but just wanted to concur on the Trek sizing. As I posted elsewhere, I tried the XM700+ in the 50 and the 55 and I felt that neither fit me very well (too tall or the reach was too short). I am also 5'9". Not the XM700+ but: when new, I had issues on my regular bike (which is a 52 and in between the XM700+ size offerings) with the hand numbness and an overly aggressive riding position. Also I would slide forward in the seat when riding. I took it to the Trek store and they helped me through the adjustments of the bars and seat (with BodyFloat seatpost added which I ordered directly from BodyFloat). Turns out I didn't need the stem riser. The bike fits really well now and is fun to ride with no more numbness although my rides tend to be 10 miles or less. My regular bike has a similar geometry to the XM700+ so perhaps there is some more adjustment to be made that can alleviate the numbness issue.

Regarding the trail usage: the XM700+ doesn't seem like a trail bike to me but rather optimal as a city commuter which you state will not be your primary usage. So if you have only put down a deposit then perhaps it is best to keep searching for a bike that has a geometry that fits you better and is more suited for your intended use. I started out my shopping with the XM at the top of my list partially because of its suitability for a city commute. I ended up purchasing the Riese and Muller Charger. More expensive than the XM700+ but the comfort level is outstanding. For me at least, I think it strikes the correct balance in riding position. Not as aggressive as my street oriented regular bike but not totally upright in a comfort position either.
 
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So now I'm officially off-topic, sorry. I didn't take the XM700+.

By the time I was going to add a 500WH battery, knobby tires, and Rock Shox Paragon Gold forks I'd be up there in price between a Powerfully 7 and 8FS+. The bike shop didn't put up any resistance regarding letting me change my deposit from the XM700+ to either a Dual Sport+ (in stock) or Powerfly 7 (must order). They're just putting the XM700+ on the sales floor to sell. My two concerns between the two new choices are riding position and standover height.

Of the two choices I've given myself, I'd still prefer one with a Bosche drivetrain (which can be hacked) that has 75NM torque vs 50NM of the Shimano steps drivetrain. I also like that Bosche can charge my phone with my USB adapter, and has a more responsive motor. But after them fetching me an XM700+ and then finding out it's not the right bike for me, I don't want to ask them to order another one until I've ruled out the DualSport+ that they have on hand.

In order to help me rule out/in the Dual Sport+ they let me try out the 17.5" bike on the streets around the shop, and it's certainly adequate, but the riding position is more aggressive than the XM700+ (or the Powerfly 7 based on specs on paper). While riding I'm bent over at a sharper angle so that it's harder to breath with only one working lung and a large tidal volume to compensate for that.

The Powerfly 7 specs for the same size bike looks like I'd be in a more upright riding position without being crowded between the seat and bars. However, the standover on the Dual Sport+ or 8FS+ is a nice and short 75mm vs the Powerfly 7 at 79mm. So the PF7 standover is only 1cm lower than the XM700+ (every little bit counts). The shop says the DualSport+ would have less rolling resistance with the narrower 700x38 tires vs the 29x2.3" tires on the PF7, but they have a vested interest in making me choose the DS+. More rolling resistance can be made up with the more powerful motor, at the expense of slightly less range.

Anyway, to see if the Dual Sport+ was strong enough to get me up the hill to our house, they let us take it home on a two day drive-test till Monday. We paid for an picked up my wife's Neko+ while we were at the bike shop, so we could ride together. With the 250W/50NM Shimano Steps drivetrain we were able to do the 6.79 mile round trip with 1140 foot climb up from the shopping center to my house and back down (per my Apple watch).

I had to use a mix of ECO, NORM, and HIGH power, and I definitely had to use HIGH more often than my wife did, who is very good shape. It would be nice to know if we take a new route that the Bosche would have some extra oomph to keep me out of trouble, but I could make it with this one. However, going downhill puts a lot of pressure on my wrists and made my hands tingle after 10 minutes, although it did the same to my wife on her Neko+.

So, we're going to ride more on Sunday, but my wife is pushing for me to just get the DualSport+ and my son is pushing me to get the Powerfly 7 with fatter tires and moar power, because I think he wants to inherit the bike if I die soon.
 

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Jeff, can you talk about the impact of that 42 tooth sprocket and the overall change to XTR? I'd like to add a little more bottom end to my xm700 as well for some of the more ferocious Adirondack climbs.

Might do the Rockshox as well to make things a little smoother up front. Great bike, though!

Thanks

Dave
 
The 42 made all the difference for me being able to get back home. I live at the top of a 700ft hill and it was just too much with the factory cassette. I chose to stay with 10 speeds so I had to give up one sprocket. I got the optional 16 tooth sprocket and removed 15 and 17.

The rockshox looks better to my eye, but I'm not sure that the upgrade is worth it. They travel isn't actually that much longer. I added a remove lockout on mine, that is very nice for going up the hill.

jeff
 
Thanks, that's very interesting... so I would be able to do the same and leave the shifter on the handlebars unchanged?

I'm strictly a rider here, the mysteries of all the upgrade strategies are sort of opaque.

I would very much like to do a similar thing for little pleasantries like that nasty grade up onto Main Street in Lake Placid, for example. To think that I used to ride my Cannondale T400 up that thing laughing like hell! Those were the days.
 
I decided to upgrade the Deore components to XT. I think the only additional change will be to add a 40 or 42 Sprocket in the rear.

Here is the list of my current upgrades.

FRAME SET
  • Front suspension Rock Shox - Paragon Gold

WHEELS
  • Skewers Delta Cycle KnoxNut Skewer Set

DRIVETRAIN
  • Shimano XT 10-Speed SL-M780 Shift Levers
  • Shimano XT Shifter Mount SL78 I-Spec Integration Unit
  • Shimano XTR CS-M980 10-Speed Dyna-Sys Cassette 11-36
  • Shimano XT 10-Speed RD-M786 GS Shadow Plus Rear Derailleur

COMPONENTS
  • Shimano XT BR-M785 Disc Brakes Front
  • Shimano XT BR-M785 Disc Brakes Rear
  • Shimano XT RT81 160mm Ice-Tech Disc Brake Rotor
  • Shimano XT RT81 180mm Ice-Tech Disc Brake Rotor
  • Bontrager Commuter Gel Saddle
  • Bontrager backrack delux Large
  • Body Float 2.0 seatpost with 2-bolt head
  • Answer Products, The ProTAPER® 720 AM handlebar
  • Ergon GP1 Handlebar Grips
  • Novara Toe Clips with Straps

ACCESSORIES
  • Bosch Nyon 8Gig Controller
  • Planet Bike Blinky Super Flash 1/2-Watt Blaze LED Plus 2 eXtreme LED Rear
  • Planet Bike Tail Light Rack Bracket
  • Kryptonite New York Standard U-Lock
  • Jandd Mini Mountain Pannier, Black
  • CycleAware Reflex Mirror Safety

I just love upgrading! What have you upgraded on your bike?

Hi Jeff,
This is a bit old. I noticed on your Trek XM700+ you installed a Rock Shok Paragon Gold . I'm very interested in your thoughts
and opinion about the change from the Trek factory 'front suspension' . I have a an XM700+ that I ride on paved trails exclusively and would seriously
consider Paragon Gold if it will help with typical paved trail joint bumps and ripples from poor paving done years ago. Some of the 'joint bumps' are brutal.
By the way, like you I have a Body Float seat post...Wow, is it great. the best.

Thanks,
John
 
I notice the difference for sure. I also added a remote lockout, but to be honest I've never needed it.

jeff

Jeff,
Thanks for your reply about your Paragon Gold Rock Shox. Did installing change the way your Trek XM700+ handles and do you know
if doing the install voids the Trek 2 year warrantee ?

Thank you,
John from CT
 
Hello Jeff,
I just came back from Germany. There I stop by the bike shop to buy the Nyon computer (just like yours) and some other parts including front (motor) stars 18 and 20. I am not experienced biker I have XM-700+ just like yours before the upgrades. Would you be kind to answer few of my questions?
1. Do you have to go all the way to the motor when you rewired you Nyon?
2. I also wonder, if i would replace front star from original 15 to 18 or 20 what if anything i would achieve?
Thank you.
 
1) I removed the four tiny screw underneath the intuvia's mount and moved the connector from the intuvia mount to the nyon mount.
2) Changing the front sprocket is not something I have tried so I can't comment.

jeff
 
Hello Jeff,
I just came back from Germany. There I stop by the bike shop to buy the Nyon computer (just like yours) and some other parts including front (motor) stars 18 and 20. I am not experienced biker I have XM-700+ just like yours before the upgrades. Would you be kind to answer few of my questions?
1. Do you have to go all the way to the motor when you rewired you Nyon?
2. I also wonder, if i would replace front star from original 15 to 18 or 20 what if anything i would achieve?
Thank you.
If you change the front chain ring from 18 to 20 your lowest gear is 20 x 36 and your highest gear is 20 x 11 it will be a little harder to climb the steepest hill and you will be able to go a little faster on a big downhill. It is equivalent to a 50 x 36 and 50 x 11 on a standard bike.
 
1) I removed the four tiny screw underneath the intuvia's mount and moved the connector from the intuvia mount to the nyon mount.
2) Changing the front sprocket is not something I have tried so I can't comment.

jeff
Thank you. I love it. I was following your steps to get the mobile app, so far unsuccessful. But I will try again.
 
You need to have the clutch off to take the wheel on/off.

Also you will have to push your gear selector a tad harder.

Jeff

Hey Jeff, Larry and the Gang,
My XM700+ just dropped it's chain from the front sprocket ( second time in 1200 miles) The first time I believe the clutch was off ( ? ) , my LBS
reset the chain, but this time the clutch is on. I'm troubled by this chain drop 'deal'...does little to instill confidence 20-30 miles from home.

I'm assuming the chain coming off is a direct function of the derailleur (?) but could use input on that. If so perhaps a derailleur change, upgrade (?) My
bike is 3 months old....The last time I dealt with chains coming off was as a kid riding a Huffy. : )

I absolutely love my XM700+ and can't wait to ride, but chains coming off is not an acceptable option. I'm going to talk with my LBS,
who are just great so that's not a concern. They'll do what is right.

Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks,

John from CT
 
On my Powerfly 7 it was dropping the chain with the smaller sprockets because the chain links were stuck and it wouldn’t bend tight enough to go around the sprocket. The LBS replaced it under warranty at about 250 miles.
 
On my Powerfly 7 it was dropping the chain with the smaller sprockets because the chain links were stuck and it wouldn’t bend tight enough to go around the sprocket. The LBS replaced it under warranty at about 250 miles.

Larry,
Thanks for your reply...I can see how links not bending to conform to the smaller front spoke would cause the chain to drop. I just picked up my Powefly 7
last week so I'm a bit put off to hear you had problems with yours. Perhaps your specific chain had a couple of tight links and the replacement solved the problem.
Approximately how many times did your chain drop prior to replacement and so far has the new chain worked flawlessly ?

I'll be taking my XM700+ to my LBS tomorrow, Saturday and report back. If this is a chain issue with 'tight' links and a replacement solves the problem
I can deal with that, but if this turns into a "Lets try this etc and maybe this " . That won't sit well with me....

Thanks,
John
 
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