Unit Pack Power battery goes boom
- Thread starter ki11a
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Dallant
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
Those firefighters certainly don’t seem to be in any hurry to actually put that fire out! It was certainly too late for the bike but looks like lots of spread was happening.
That’s a big fire and I’m of the opinion that the Li-on battery industry needs to be held accountable for fires and preventing them. As I’ve noted, IMHO the battery industry needs to come up with better chemistry and/or battery storage options. LI-on batteries are simply too volatile and the idea that we can’t transport them via the airlines is more than proof enough.
That’s a big fire and I’m of the opinion that the Li-on battery industry needs to be held accountable for fires and preventing them. As I’ve noted, IMHO the battery industry needs to come up with better chemistry and/or battery storage options. LI-on batteries are simply too volatile and the idea that we can’t transport them via the airlines is more than proof enough.
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Stefan Mikes
Gravel e-biker
- Region
- Europe
- City
- Mazovia, PL
I wonder how it comes there are no reports on battery fires of the respected e-bike manufacturers' products.
ki11a
Well-Known Member
Has to do with data spec I would think...those 'respected' ebike manufacturers usually have expensive bikes and cater to higher class and therefore would have less of them around vs a budget value ebike where there would be many more of those around and therefore more cases to be had or found.
Stefan Mikes
Gravel e-biker
- Region
- Europe
- City
- Mazovia, PL
The "respected" e-bike manufacturers charge a lot for their batteries, not without a reason...
Oh there are plenty of incidents with "respected" manufacturers, including recalls from Pedago, and fires from Teslas and other EVs that have BMS systems that ebike manufacturers don't come anywhere near meeting. Saying that manufacturers should be liable simply for producing li-ion batteries is simplistic. It's not like the manufacturers want fires; companies have been working for years to improve the safety of lithium batteries, but with current technology there is no way they can totally eliminate the risk. Buying batteries from unknown sources is especially risky, but even expensive ones from reputable manufacturers occasionally go "boom", just like gasoline engines occasionally catch on fire. The only way to have totally safe lithium batteries is to stop producing them until when (and if) they become fool proof. Not a year goes by without some company claiming that they have a better battery technology, but after 20 years the most we've gotten are slight advancements using the same basic technology. Maybe it's a good way of weeding out the gene pool of people who leave their chargers on for days at a time, use batteries with obvious defects like buldges or other signs of expansion, and so forth.
Dallant
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
That’s one of the big reasons I went with a respected brand like Bosch. Still, they could certainly do more to address the potential and how to deal with a Li-on fire.
Dallant
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
I’m guessing Tesla has documents about their vehicles for the firefighting community. I know Toyota does for its hybrids, but then they aren't li-on batteries.
AHicks
Well-Known Member
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- USA
- City
- Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
"When a BMS is installed and working properly, there is almost no chance of a fire."
The Real Story Behind Electric Bike Battery Fires
What is happening with e-bike fires in NYC, how you can stay safe, and what should the industry do to minimize risks moving forward As the e-bike market has grown and micromobility has expanded to include not just e-bikes, but e-scooters, e-mopeds, one-wheels and hoverboards, more and more...electricbikereport.com
If you go on YouTube and type in "ebike fire", there are tons of videos for every scenario.
Catching fire while parked, while riding, while charging, etc.. and in every case, BMS failure was the problem?
If BMS was working properly, the fire would have not occurred?
The BMS is not going to be in play when the insulation protecting a cell has rubbed through and caused a short or a venting issue. Doesn't happen often, but it does happen. A LOT of thought has to go in to protecting those individual cells when assembling a pack. Then, more attention required regarding protecting the pack - which involves way more weight/momentum than individual cells....
A rough riding bike will rattle your brains out. Imagine that effect on a poorly constructed/installed battery pack!
Stefan Mikes
Gravel e-biker
- Region
- Europe
- City
- Mazovia, PL
Dallant
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
A short or fire alarm would be even better.
Do you keep track of that while you're riding?
Stefan Mikes
Gravel e-biker
- Region
- Europe
- City
- Mazovia, PL
BLEvo app shows that during the ride along all other ride parameters. I check the temperature with Mission Control occasionally on my stops if I don't use BLEvo.
Gionnirocket
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Y. O.
From what I understand UPP started out to be a great source for batteries but then they began cutting corners and their quality went down.
Gionnirocket
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Y. O.
It's not good to over charge batteries
AHicks
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
From what I see here, nobody has provided any proof something even happened. That makes this a non-event. I don't see where it should affect somebody's previously good reputation.....
Or am I missing something?
Or am I missing something?
Gionnirocket
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Y. O.
I watched the OP video again and the reviewer strikes me as a bit of d_bag who likes to listen to himself talk and may be skewing things a bit... The studio mic set is the first clue
Now if he was there with the bike when the fire started, as he said.. "had just shut the breakers" ... why didn't he pull the bike away from the building entrance? Ok.. Possibly he had locked it to the railing already, but there's no mention of this. But he did put the entire building and lives at risk not doing so.
Then the audio cuts out in the video right after someone says "I'm glad it happened now" ?
Then he spends most of the video talking about battery capacity which is not a factor at all and just an opportunity for him to fill space and show how smart he is.
Now I don't have the experience to know if his scheme for implementing both batteries in parallel is advisable, perhaps @Ravi Kempaiah can educate us on this.
But when UPP replied saying that it is not advised to connect the batteries in series or parallel, I do believe that they were referring to battery packs as they sells them, not individual cells. So again I believe he knew this as having dealt with Chinese vendors and a bit of translation forgiveness should be expected.. so I find that part of the video moot as well as self serving.
Now for the batteries to fail when not under load or charging... I say that you can not rule out user error as the last change in state was the switching of the breakers and poorly run wires that shorted is all that would be needed.
UPP quality is not what it use to be and it can quite possibly be a poor quality control issue as well.... all I sayin' is that the jury is still out.
tomjasz
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Minnesnowta
Breakers are used pretty commonly by DIY eBike kit world. Hundreds of posts on ES forum, if not more. Having discussed with him I can say without any doubt. Not a breaker problem. 72V systems are not for the timid.
Gionnirocket
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Y. O.
A properly wired circuit breaker itself can not cause a fault such as this.... but poor wiring practices can. Sloppy wiring and no grommets or strain relief comes to mind. Then at 72v and running parallel or series packs you have some real potential.
He seems to be a bit full of himself and also trying to cover himself for any liability.
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