Unit Pack Power battery goes boom

[tomjasz]

He’s running a CA3 and Phaserunner. Add 72V and a poorly built pack, and fire is a likely outcome. Look back and find his tear down of a BBSHD. He’s no ones fool. IMO the entire build is not something we’d ever support.

 

[Gionnirocket]

When originally posted, he had a circuit diagram available. I recall he had his batteries in parallel, but with diodes to prevent one dumping power into the other. He probably thought ..."this will never fail." Apparently, something did.

Yes I believe that you are correct.. He had two 72v batteries in parallel.
I can't speak to whether or not the implementation of the bridge rectifier in this manner is best practice but I understand the basic theory for wanting to use one.
It looks correct to me but so long out of use.. theory is escaping me.

What gives me a little concern is the use of a two pole breaker on each battery. From what I understand there is no reason to break the negative wire and if the device was not properly rated you have a much greater potential for catastrophic failure... well at least under load. I wonder if he is doing what I see many doing with fuses... Using underrated devices or devices rated for AC current? I would think that a 2 pole 100v DC breaker would be a rather large device.
I also think that there may be an issue with using a separate circuit breakers for each battery as one could be accidentally knocked off and then during charging or discharging allow for a potential between batteries... though the rectifier should still protect him. I'm thinking better use of a single two pole breaker would have been to break the positive from each battery and run the negatives to a bus.

Someone with a greater grasp on this please comment as I'm probably talking out my a$$

 

[harryS]

For commercial gear to meet safety standards, there are so many little things designers/builders have to know, that the home DIY'er doesn't think about. Then you put it on a vehicle and shake the bananas out of it. Kaboom.

As an example, I went out today with a new battery rig in a rack. It shut off twice on me from vibration. While fiddling with it with frosty fingers at 31F and some guy rides by and calls me a cheater. Heck, only three bikes out all day. Ain't we comrades-in-arms? .

 

[Gionnirocket]

For commercial gear to meet safety standards, there are so many little things designers/builders have to know, that the home DIY'er doesn't think about. Then you put it on a vehicle and shake the bananas out of it. Kaboom.

As an example, I went out today with a new battery rig in a rack. It shut off twice on me from vibration. While fiddling with it with frosty fingers at 31F and some guy rides by and calls me a cheater. Heck, only three bikes out all day. Ain't we comrades-in-arms? .

I concur.

 

[tomjasz]

All speculation. Knowing Louis and his skill set I put this squarely on UPP..

QFT AND EDIT I’m wrong about Rossman and UPP. BUT there are many more UPP horror stories and fires. I was desperate for a custom battery and specifically called out cells, BMS, BMS specs, cell separation, and nickel connections (not cheap nickel coated steel they typically use) It came as specified. But my new Jenny Mao and EM3ev batteries are more skillfully crafted . BTW my former shops insurance paid off a claim for a UPP battery fire. And there are more. As well as ridiculously high percentage of failures without UPP honoring warrantees. It cost the original California eBike owner thousands honoring a 1 year warranty .

 

[tomjasz]

The CEO of Unit Pack Power responded to this video.
I guess there's always two sides of story.

According to the CEO, the customer just claimed that it was Unit Pack Power battery caught fire.
Then he refused to release any evidence (photos, etc.) or something to prove that it was UPP battery catching fire.

In order for UPP to file their global insurance claim, they needed some proof, but according to UPP, the customer refused.
I'm not saying which side of party was telling the truth, just saying that, there is always two sides of story.

Bullshit. I've sold, repaired, owned, and trashed UPP batteries. Their warranty response is abysmal. I've got several customer horror stories, not the least of which were two eBike travel log writers abandoned halfway through their trip with failed batteries. We honored and ate too many battery packs to continue business with them. Pictures available.

 

[Fastbiker]

Nothing to do with UPP. Louis Rossman is a well known You-tuber who is quite brilliant with computers and was in a battle with Apple for right to repair. he would show customers who had went to the Genius Bar and told their repair needed this and that and would cost more than the computer, the old story and Louis could fix them easily and cheaply after diagnosing the fault. However, he made an Ebike and started meddling by pairing batteries in series or parallel and adding boost features and was obviously not familiar with the higher voltages and BMS etc. I definitely think a case of using the battery beyond its parameters when charging. When I seen his new creation after the fire it looked like some sort of long Harley D with panniers and back seat and wires and gadgets everywhere. I think he is on a range quest. It looked tripe.

 

[tomjasz]

Yup 72V battery and external controller on a BBSHD. Check out his latest. If memory serves another BBSHD and 4 fricking EM3ev batteries and again an external controller GOOFY

BUT there is a painfully long video where he repairs the crappy and poor quality control on Bafang PCB’s.

 

[tomjasz]

• Dec 15, 2020

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• #29

All speculation. Knowing Louis and his skill set I put this squarely on UPP..

QFT AND EDIT I’m wrong about Rossman and UPP. BUT there are many more UPP horror stories and fires. I was desperate for a custom battery and specifically called out cells, BMS, BMS specs, cell separation, and nickel connections (not cheap nickel coated steel they typically use) It came as specified. But my new Jenny Mao and EM3ev batteries are more skillfully crafted . BTW my former shops insurance paid off a claim for a UPP battery fire. And there are more. As well as ridiculously high percentage of failures without UPP honoring warrantees. It cost the original California eBike owner thousands honoring a 1 year warranty .

 

[Fastbiker]

Yup 72V battery and external controller on a BBSHD. Check out his latest. If memory serves another BBSHD and 4 fricking EM3ev batteries and again an external controller GOOFY

BUT there is a painfully long video where he repairs the crappy and poor quality control on Bafang PCB’s.

Yes he should stick to computers, he has no idea about the higher voltages and the delicate balance in the BMS’s. I must look at this painfully long video to hear him (talk talk talk) on his stupid new ideas and maybe see a creation from hell. I absolutely love the way he silicon waterproof parts, looks dabbed on with a spoon, waterproof connectors on it but lower down where it will get wet just plain spade connector. and whats with all the phone chargers. Does a USB socket or two not suffice anymore. But behold thy silicon sealant. Wow

 

[harryS]

I bought a UPP Hailong pack (48V $240) last Fall, but had it in the box for five months. Charged it for the first time this month. Took my first ride and every time I hit a bump, it shut off. Having just bought the same bare case. I knew how to open it. Found the balance connector in at an angle. Reseated it. All is well.

As far as construction, they used the plastic forms you get with a Hailong kit. They put washers under the positive terminals for added insulation. The spot welds were done by hand though. There was extra insulation over areas where the cells might rub against wires, etc. It's better than my older UPP batteries.

I am disgruntled because it's a 10Ah pack (also on the outside battery label. I don't recall ordering a 10ah pack last year, but my amazon records don't show those details, I'm sure I ordered a 14Ah and the seller slipped in 10AH.

 

[Fastbiker]

I bought a UPP Hailong pack (48V $240) last Fall, but had it in the box for five months. Charged it for the first time this month. Took my first ride and every time I hit a bump, it shut off. Having just bought the same bare case. I knew how to open it. Found the balance connector in at an angle. Reseated it. All is well.

As far as construction, they used the plastic forms you get with a Hailong kit. They put washers under the positive terminals for added insulation. The spot welds were done by hand though. There was extra insulation over areas where the cells might rub against wires, etc. It's better than my older UPP batteries.

I am disgruntled because it's a 10Ah pack (also on the outside battery label. I don't recall ordering a 10ah pack last year, but my amazon records don't show those details, I'm sure I ordered a 14Ah and the seller slipped in 10AH.

View attachment 117979View attachment 117980View attachment 117981

I would return it despite opening it if it wasn’t what you ordered. UPP batteries built in Germany are what you want.

 

[harryS]

I;m past the amazon window for return, but I did notify the seller today. Asked for a credit.

 

[Gionnirocket]

I bought a UPP Hailong pack (48V $240) last Fall, but had it in the box for five months. Charged it for the first time this month. Took my first ride and every time I hit a bump, it shut off. Having just bought the same bare case. I knew how to open it. Found the balance connector in at an angle. Reseated it. All is well.

As far as construction, they used the plastic forms you get with a Hailong kit. They put washers under the positive terminals for added insulation. The spot welds were done by hand though. There was extra insulation over areas where the cells might rub against wires, etc. It's better than my older UPP batteries.

I am disgruntled because it's a 10Ah pack (also on the outside battery label. I don't recall ordering a 10ah pack last year, but my amazon records don't show those details, I'm sure I ordered a 14Ah and the seller slipped in 10AH.

View attachment 117979View attachment 117980View attachment 117981

If you go to your list of orders you should be able to click on the item that you ordered. If still available it should open the items current listing and at the top tell you what variant of the item you ordered.
Also check Order Invoice, not Order Details as on the invoice it should show all details.

 

[harryS]

Gionnirocket. neither the amazon order detail nor the invoice shows tha AH, STill, there is no 10AH unit in the listing and never was. We'll see.
.

 

[Gionnirocket]

Gionnirocket. neither the amazon order detail nor the invoice shows tha AH, STill, there is no 10AH unit in the listing and never was. We'll see.
.

Gotcha!
I thought it may have been an option of V/Ah as I see many batteries listed that way.
If the listing did have options... You should be able to see which you had chosen.
With no 10Ah option that does make it odd... It might be a little tough to prove that the battery in hand now is the one that they sent 5 months ago.

 

[tomjasz]

UPP batteries built in Germany

BS they don’t build in Germany, but they have a horseshit agent there. (Like Luna they peddle bullshit) We sold two batteries to a couple doing EU ebike travel logs. UPP had us tell the buyers to send to Germany. They came back to them in Spain and still did NOT function. Shop owner ATE the $1000. UPP INSISTED WE NOT COMMUNICATE WITH THEIR CHINESE AGENT IN GERMANY. Unless you specifically call out build standards you get their crap.

 

[tomjasz]

I;m past the amazon window for return, but I did notify the seller today. Asked for a credit.

Good luck. We sold a couple hundred and ate every failed battery and the refund. BTW, a generic Chinese cell with a $5 BMS and steel connectors.

 

[Fastbiker]

Gotcha!
I thought it may have been an option of V/Ah as I see many batteries listed that way.
If the listing did have options... You should be able to see which you had chosen.
With no 10Ah option that does make it odd... It might be a little tough to prove that the battery in hand now is the one that they sent 5 months ago.

The proof is in your email invoice from Amazon. I have went back on old orders and when something becomes unavailable it doesn’t come up. You might have deleted your email but its still out there in Cyberspace. Anyway there is an option to speak to the supplier directly and in my experience UPP answers quickly..!

 

[Fastbiker]

BS they don’t build in Germany, but they have a horseshit agent there. (Like Luna they peddle bullshit) We sold two batteries to a couple doing EU ebike travel logs. UPP had us tell the buyers to send to Germany. They came back to them in Spain and still did function. Shop owner ATE the $1000. UPP INSISTED WE NOT COMMUNICATE WITH THEIR CHINESE AGENT IN GERMANY. Unless you specifically call out build standards you get their crap.

No they ASSEMBLE in Germany , but i can’t really understand what else your saying. Please rephrase !