Turbo Vado power vs Vado SL power

[Sefutau2020]

Just my latest experience:

As my Vado 5.0 is out of order now (the motor damaged, post-warranty; the structural crack of the frame, lifetime warranty) and is at Specialized for a warranty claim, my Vado SL is the only of my e-bikes I can currently use. Last Saturday, I set off for a ride together with my gravel cycling club. I did 10 km total of the commutes to the start line unpowered, with average speed of 14-16 km/h (The reason was to save the batteries for the club ride).

Once the ride started, I was left by the boys and girls in the dust! (I forgot to derestrict my Vado SL @jodi2) Once derestricted by a button push, I could follow my mates until the moment I took a wrong turn on the route and it was all over since. Yes, I could catch up with the group by a 10 km pursuit in SL Turbo mode (off-road). When I eventually reached the group tail, my ailing leg gave up and I had to leave the group ride.

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The trouble began after the group restarted the ride from that point (after having repaired a flat on a group member's bike).

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SL Turbo pursuit for 10 km.

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I continued the solo ride on my own terms and speed. I closed the loop at 106 km, the ride including reaching the train station was 112 km, and I did 127 km on that cold day.

Riding for 112 km on Vado SL took me 5:35:51 (average speed of 20.0 km/h). The batteries' consumption was 679 Wh, and I burned 1370 kcal. While I could not match the group performance, the light weight of my Vado SL allowed me carrying my e-bike in several situations.

The other gravel group ride involved my 45 km/h Vado 5.0. I completed 104.5 km in 3:59:41 at average speed of 26.2 km/h using 802 Wh from my batteries. I burned 962 kcal on that ride.

I could successfully use my Vado SL on gravel group rides whenever the pace was defined as "recreational" and the weather was fair. However, riding with strong groups has always required the extra oomph of my powerful Vado 5.0!

Very nice, and great pictures. Surprised to hear your frame cracked on the big Vado. I hope they get it fixed soon. Thanks for the write up.

 

[HappyGrandpa]

...

Let's just not lose sight of the fact that the SL weighs just over 30lbs, while the Vado is over 50. That definitely factors in.

But someone reasonably fit willing to put some of their own watts into an SL will find on most flats and rolling hills, the SL can absolutely fly in Turbo mode. I'm nearly 60 years old, am fairly fit, and can get my SL going plenty fast, often over 20mph on flats without sweating a great deal in Turbo. If I'm really working, on the flats I can zoom along close to 25mph in Turbo. I can't imagine anyone needing much more than this! It climbs okay too, just slower than a Vado, no doubt.

My apologies but, I am a little late to this party- I have TV SL5 2021 model, UK compliant version. What I don’t really understand is that if motor assistance stops when you reach 15.5 mph, then if one propels the bike at speeds greater than this, it must be solely with rider pedal power alone. So if you are going along at 25mph, the turbo mode must be redundant because the motor assistance has been cut out. I am 74 and struggle to get the bike above 18 to 20 mph on a flat road. May be I have misunderstood how these e-bikes work. My wife has a 2022 Vado 3 and it certainly has more punch on hills than my SL5, even though her bike is noticeably heavier.

 

[GGinMP]

My apologies but, I am a little late to this party- I have TV SL5 2021 model, UK compliant version. What I don’t really understand is that if motor assistance stops when you reach 15.5 mph, then if one propels the bike at speeds greater than this, it must be solely with rider pedal power alone. So if you are going along at 25mph, the turbo mode must be redundant because the motor assistance has been cut out. I am 74 and struggle to get the bike above 18 to 20 mph on a flat road. May be I have misunderstood how these e-bikes work. My wife has a 2022 Vado 3 and it certainly has more punch on hills than my SL5, even though her bike is noticeably heavier.

#1, Rider 51 is in the USA where the SL has assist up to 28 mph.

#2, if I’m not mistaken, after that 28 mph the bike won’t assist any more than at 28 mph, but it doesn’t shut off completely. Someone correct me if I’m wrong.

 

[Sefutau2020]

You are correct. In the US, the Vado's are Class 3 with support up to 28mph. The power/motor seems to taper off as you approach 28mph.....but I can easily keep this beast (2022 Vado 4.0) rolling at 28mph in Sport mode.

 

[Allan47.7339]

May be I have misunderstood how these e-bikes work. My wife has a 2022 Vado 3 and it certainly has more punch on hills than my SL5, even though her bike is noticeably heavier.

The light power Vado SL 5.0 is 180% of your input. The full power Vado 3 is 400% of your input up to the motor limits so it will feel stronger on the hills. On the other hand your lighter bike will be easier to ride on the flats above the motor cutoff speed.

 

[BEC111]

You are correct. In the US, the Vado's are Class 3 with support up to 28mph. The power/motor seems to taper off as you approach 28mph.....but I can easily keep this beast (2022 Vado 4.0) rolling at 28mph in Sport mode.

I’ve often ridden my SL4 at over 28 mph. Even in Eco with a tailwind and a slight descent. The calculator at https://www.bikecalc.com/gear_inches shows that the bike can go over 30 mph at 95 rpm. I‘ve pedaled and gone faster.

The assist at any level definitely makes a difference. I’ve been able to get to about 24 mph without any assistance before I hit a hill or run out of human energy. I don’t know if I could go faster on my own. Especially as I get older. I seem to be slowing down every year.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I’ve often ridden my SL4 at over 28 mph. Even in Eco with a tailwind and a slight descent. The calculator at https://www.bikecalc.com/gear_inches shows that the bike can go over 30 mph at 95 rpm. I‘ve pedaled and gone faster.

The assist at any level definitely makes a difference. I’ve been able to get to about 24 mph without any assistance before I hit a hill or run out of human energy. I don’t know if I could go faster on my own. Especially as I get older. I seem to be slowing down every year.

You must be a fit person BEC. My typical SL Turbo speed is only 34 km/h or 21 mph

 

[GGinMP]

When I first got my Vado SL, I was amazed at how easily I hit 28 mph, and I barely felt the extra effort to 35! Then I realized it was set for kph and not mph, and I wasn’t going any faster than about 22 mph. I’ve got to build up some stamina.

 

[Te. S]

My average speed is anywhere from 12 to 16 MPH but that is on Eco with only set to 30% assist, i have gone 32 MPH downhill in the same setting it was fun but Scary

 

[BEC111]

My average speed is anywhere from 12 to 16 MPH but that is on Eco with only set to 30% assist, i have gone 32 MPH downhill in the same setting it was fun but Scary

My average speeds are the same. Fortunately, my usual routes have some spots where I can go very fast if I wish to. I can’t sustain speeds over 20 mph or so.

I‘m not sure I’m in that good shape. I just think riding fast comes naturally to me. When I restarted riding four years ago I went pretty fast. Genes I suppose.

 

[Sefutau2020]

On my Vado 4 when I take my normal routes (40 miles round trip), with hills, folks on the path, etc....I average 17 to 18mph at cadences from 80 to 85rpm's.

 

[dollarbin]

I have been uploading the .fit files into MATLAB. Mission Control records a number of interesting parameters, including rider power and motor power. Plotting those two against each other illustrate how the Support % and Peak Power % numbers work. The lines are just eyeball estimates for the percent assist through the peak value, not necessarily the average.

Data from my 2020 Vado 5.0 since the original motor was replaced, March 2022. Total distance ~3100 miles, mostly flat riding. Mission Control reports a maximum motor power around 800 Watts. In the 2020 Vado 5.0 Review Nominal Output is reported as 250 W and Peak Output is 550 W, so perhaps the Peak output number is power above nominal (250 W + 550 W = 800 W). It would be interesting to put the bike on a trainer to measure actual power vs reported power.

 

[Johnny]

I have been uploading the .fit files into MATLAB. Mission Control records a number of interesting parameters, including rider power and motor power. Plotting those two against each other illustrate how the Support % and Peak Power % numbers work. The lines are just eyeball estimates for the percent assist through the peak value, not necessarily the average.
View attachment 144653
Data from my 2020 Vado 5.0 since the original motor was replaced, March 2022. Total distance ~3100 miles, mostly flat riding. Mission Control reports a maximum motor power around 800 Watts. In the 2020 Vado 5.0 Review Nominal Output is reported as 250 W and Peak Output is 550 W, so perhaps the Peak output number is power above nominal (250 W + 550 W = 800 W). It would be interesting to put the bike on a trainer to measure actual power vs reported power.

No, peak means max power for short bursts hence in this case 800W. However does mission control app report power at the battery or motor output? I suspect it is the Battery consumption in which case the motor output should be around %75-80 of these values.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Mission Control reports a maximum motor power around 800 Watts.

It is the Electrical Power. Multiply by 0.70 (efficiency) to get the Mechanical Power of the 565 W.

 

[gpburdell]

The light power Vado SL 5.0 is 180% of your input. The full power Vado 3 is 400% of your input up to the motor limits so it will feel stronger on the hills. On the other hand your lighter bike will be easier to ride on the flats above the motor cutoff speed.

To clarify, Specialized says the Vado 3 motor adds 3x rider power, up to 430w. Only the 5.0 adds 4x rider power. (the marketing is a bit misleading with the “up to”)

 

[Stefan Mikes]

To clarify,

Thank you for the useful information!
(How lucky I am to ride a Vado with the 1.2s motor of 3.2x amplification and 520 Wh peak power...)

Necessary to mention Specialized quotes the mechanical power of the motor. The electrical power is at least 20% greater. (Which everybody can see on the MasterMind display or in Mission Control on older e-bikes).

 

[Allan47.7339]

I did not know they had the middle version when I posted and it looks the poster I responded to has never been back. My viewpoint is I would prefer to not ride an e-bike and just ride my regular bicycle but right now a Creo allows me to keep up on hills and headwinds and recover in time for the next ride. I try to maximize the "assist off" mode.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

My viewpoint is I would prefer to not ride an e-bike and just ride my regular bicycle but right now a Creo allows me to keep up on hills and headwinds and recover in time for the next ride. I try to maximize the "assist off" mode.

It is the fate of several owners of SL e-bikes here. One of them swapped his Creo for the most lightweight road bike available in the market and rides long distance/big elevation gain on a daily basis. Another, a Vado SL rider, can be seen on Strava riding his e-bike without any assistance.

For me, Vado SL is my daily choice while powerful Vado 6.0 is my weekend/vacation ride. I get fit with Vado SL but enjoy fast long adventure rides or steep climbs with Vado 6.0. (I must be electrically assisted).