Turbo Vado 2 4.0 or 5.0 or 6.0?

[Jeremy McCreary]

This whole thread is making my head hurt. I haven't a notion what all the maths means here, haven't the brain for it, start seeing blurry!

Don't feel bad. It's having the same effect on me, and for better or worse, I DO have the head for this stuff — apparently in exchange for lots of other things I definitely DON'T have a head for.

Guess that's why the universe invented division of labor.

All I know is I can get up any 20% even 25% gradient on my 5 year old Vado SL with 36/11-46. Once you have low enough gears & a bit of patience and a good line, that puny 35nm motor gets the job done. Would love to try the Creo 2 and feel the difference. Or compare to TQ40 & 60. So many good options these days.

Constantly astounded at how good a climber the SL 1 is with, as you say, patience and the right gearing. But like you, I'd love to try the alternatives.

 

[mcdenny]

Do think it's possible the whole notion of "boost" is something Specialized marketing department thought up to convey a sense of how powerful the motor is in a way that would be meaningful to experienced bike riders?

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Do think it's possible the whole notion of "boost" is something Specialized marketing department thought up to convey a sense of how powerful the motor is in a way that would be meaningful to experienced bike riders?

Not. It is a universal concept for mid-drive motors. The Boost (Assist Factor) is the multiplier for your leg input power to give the mechanical power* delivered by the motor to its spindle. While Specialized says, e.g., 4x, others such as Yamaha or Bosch would say 400%. Meaning, your 100 W of input would be assisted by the true motor power of 400 W if the Max Motor Power would be at least the latter value. That is only possible at a certain pedalling cadence. (Mid-drive motors love spinning).

What makes Specialized pretty special is the company has introduced the second parameter, the Max Motor Power Cap very early, while other brands didn't limit the motor power in their beginnings. Capping the motor power allows for a more economic ride regarding the battery consumption.

Suggestions on Custom Mode Settings is the most useful section of the new Support document.
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*) Some e-bikes are PAS (Pedal Assistance). As you start pedalling, the motor starts. It is an On-Off switch. Other e-bikes have Torque Assist: the harder you stomp on the pedals the more motor power you get. Good mid-drive motors are -- as Jeremy calls them (I think) -- Leg Power Assist ones. Your leg power is a product of the feet torque and the cadence.

 

[stompandgo]

Bosch Smart System does something similar with adjustable pedal dynamics. By reducing dynamics and assistance to Lower, you get pretty much the same thing.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Bosch Smart System does something similar with adjustable pedal dynamics. By reducing dynamics and assistance to Lower, you get pretty much the same thing.

It was certainly not present in 2017 Is there a comprehensive Motor Power Cap in the BES? Like moving the slider to limit the Peak Motor Power to 50%?

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

*) Some e-bikes are PAS (Pedal Assistance). As you start pedalling, the motor starts. It is an On-Off switch. Other e-bikes have Torque Assist: the harder you stomp on the pedals the more motor power you get. Good mid-drive motors are -- as Jeremy calls them (I think) -- Leg Power Assist ones. Your leg power is a product of the feet torque and the cadence.

Just for the record, the term pedal assist system (PAS) started out, at least in the engineering literature, as a much-needed catch-all for ANY kind of pedal assist — cadence-sensing, torque-sensing, power-sensing, you name it.

And I think PAS is still most useful as a generic term.

But many, including @Stefan Mikes , now use "PAS" as synonymous with the simplest on-off form of cadence-sensing assist. Maybe because that became the most common kind of PAS in the US and elsewhere.

Too bad. We still need a generic term covering all kinds of pedal assist. And we had a perfectly good one — one that said exactly what it means. And now we have this confusion to contend with.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

power-sensing

That's it!

 

[RunForTheHills]

Just for the record, the term pedal assist system (PAS) started out, at least in the engineering literature, as a much-needed catch-all for ANY kind of pedal assist — cadence-sensing, torque-sensing, power-sensing, you name it.

And I think PAS is still most useful as a generic term.

But many, including @Stefan Mikes , now use "PAS" as synonymous with the simplest on-off form of cadence-sensing assist. Maybe because that became the most common kind of PAS in the US and elsewhere.

Too bad. We still need a generic term covering all kinds of pedal assist. And we had a perfectly good one — one that said exactly what it means. And now we have this confusion to contend with.

PAS is a generic term and cadence sensor or torque sensor is more specific. However, I think cheap Chinese bikes that use cadence sensors will simply list PAS as a feature and manufacturers with bikes that have torque sensing will call that out to differentiate themselves from the low end "PAS" bikes.

 

[stompandgo]

It was certainly not present in 2017 Is there a comprehensive Motor Power Cap in the BES? Like moving the slider to limit the Peak Motor Power to 50%?

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Not the motor power though?

 

[stompandgo]

Torque

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Torque

Not the same?
I know the max motor power of my 1.2s motor is 520 W. If I set the cap at 50%, I know the motor power won't exceed 260 W. Now, the torque and power are related by the rpm. Is setting the motor torque same as setting the motor power? How does the relationship with the rpm look like there?

 

[stompandgo]

You can vary the assist%.

I didn't say it was exactly the same. I said it can do pretty much the same thing.