Total Noob Here, Need Your Help

Dewey said:
Do you grease the metal secondary gears only or do you disassemble the motor to get at the nylon primary gear as well? Do you use Mobil 28 on both?
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I don't hit the plastic gear. At some point I will. Just the metal gears easily accessed and yes Mobile 28 on all.
 
In case anyone is interested I have an update. Fortunately for me a Haibike dealer opened up in the next town over. I test rode a SDURO Cross 4.0 as well as the Hard Nine which was $500 more. I loved them both but the Hard Nine just felt better. The only problem is the area did not have the massive hills we have on our road and what I anticipate when we move to Tennessee. So I was not convinced it will be able to handle those as I weigh 240 pounds.

It says it has a 500W motor but the spec sheet says 250W with a max of 500W. Does that match what we have been referring to as a 500W motor, where that's really the max output?

My concern about longevity was confirmed when the shop said the battery may last 5 years with a replacement costing $500. This has caused me to wait, hopefully the battery development will continue to improve. Besides I need this at retirement in 6 years and I don't want to have to buy multiple batteries.
 
DaveinMtAiry said:
Yeah I know you were pushing me to buy and enjoy now. But if a $500 battery will need to be switched out every 4-5 years I think I'm doing the right thing in waiting. Hoping batteries continue to advance.
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Sorry, not pushing, just aware of how much fun you'd have in 5 years. $100 a year for a battery, that 10 six packs of decent beer....VBG
 
Thomas Jaszewski said:
Sorry, not pushing, just aware of how much fun you'd have in 5 years. $100 a year for a battery, that 10 six packs of decent beer....VBG
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No I appreciate what you were saying. And if the battery was $100 I may pull the trigger. But it's more like $500+

So about the rating. Is a 250W Yamaha direct drive that maxes at 500W what we consider a 500W motor?
 
Dave, whether it's a Bosch, Yamaha or other mid drive motor (or any hub motor), when a manufacturer says a motor is 500 watts, that means the continuous power the motor is rated for is 500 watts; the peak power would be more. So a sales person would be misrepresenting the actual motor size if they were to call a 250 watt motor a 500 watt motor instead of indicating that the 500 watts is the peak power.

Now, with that said; watts are not the whole picture when considering the power of a motor. Depending upon how the motor was wound and the specs of the controller, a 250 watt mid drive motor might have more torque or climbing ability than some 500 watt hub motors. Best bet is a good set of test rides.
 
Ann M. said:
Dave, whether it's a Bosch, Yamaha or other mid drive motor (or any hub motor), when a manufacturer says a motor is 500 watts, that means the continuous power the motor is rated for is 500 watts; the peak power would be more. So a sales person would be misrepresenting the actual motor size if they were to call a 250 watt motor a 500 watt motor instead of indicating that the 500 watts is the peak power.

Now, with that said; watts are not the whole picture when considering the power of a motor. Depending upon how the motor was wound and the specs of the controller, a 250 watt mid drive motor might have more torque or climbing ability than some 500 watt hub motors. Best bet is a good set of test rides.
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Thanks so much Ann. I was told the Yahama motor has more torque than others. I did test ride it but as I said the hills around the shop were not as steep as the ones on my road and what I expect in Tennessee. But I was able to go up some fairly long grades with little effort.

Throughout the thread I was told a mid drive at 350W and above would be fine. Here is the link with the specs, they always read 500W. Could you please clarify is this 250W or 500W?

https://propelbikes.com/product/haibike-sduro-cross-4-0-2017/
 
DaveinMtAiry said:
Thanks so much Ann. I was told the Yahama motor has more torque than others. I did test ride it but as I said the hills around the shop were not as steep as the ones on my road and what I expect in Tennessee. But I was able to go up some fairly long grades with little effort.

Throughout the thread I was told a mid drive at 350W and above would be fine. Here is the link with the specs, they always read 500W. Could you please clarify is this 250W or 500W?

https://propelbikes.com/product/haibike-sduro-cross-4-0-2017/
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Both Yamaha mid drives are 250 watts nominal, 500 watts peak.

PW:

(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)

PW-X:

(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)

They're very capable hill climbers. I agree with Ann, watt rating doesn't tell the whole story. I also believe many sellers use the watt spec in false advertising or hype to sell bikes. Nothing new or scandalous there, automobile manufactures have been doing that for a long time.

With so many opinions available, it's impossible to remove all doubt. The minute one thinks they have it all figured out, someone will write a new set of facts based on personal experience. Much of it is just anecdotal facts.

Good luck in your search.
 
J.R. said:
Both Yamaha mid drives are 250 watts nominal, 500 watts peak.

PW:

(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)

PW-X:

(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)

They're very capable hill climbers. I agree with Ann, watt rating doesn't tell the whole story. I also believe many sellers use the watt spec in false advertising or hype to sell bikes. Nothing new or scandalous there, automobile manufactures have been doing that for a long time.

With so many opinions available, it's impossible to remove all doubt. The minute one thinks they have it all figured out, someone will write a new set of facts based on personal experience. Much of it is just anecdotal facts.

Good luck in your search.
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Thanks so much for the help. I won't pretend to understand that 2nd link, way too much technical info for my knowledge. Everyone tells me they are great for hills so it's time I believe that. I just wish the shop would have allowed me to rent the bike but I understand why that was not possible.

The battery is rated 400w yet most articles list batteries in volts. More confusion, is 400W a strong battery?
 
@DaveinMtAiry

A battery's total capacity is measured in Wh (watt hours). To calculate this you multiply the voltage x the ah (ampere hour).

Example 1 : 36 volts x 10Ah = 360Wh

Example 2 : 36 volts x 15Ah = 540Wh

So when you compare the same ebike (style, drive unit etc....) the battery offering 540Wh capacity would allow you to ride 50% longer/further than the 360Wh.

But for this theory to be accurate you have to compare apples to apples. Different tire widths, motors etc.... will all play a factor in range so it's important to speak to someone knowledgeable when comparing 2 completely different bikes. Just because it may have a larger battery does not mean it can go further.


When measuring W (watts) this would be the rating for the motor ie. 250W, 350W, 400W, 500W etc...... Think 4 cylinder car, V6, V8 etc..... Once again more isn't always better here either.

hope this helps,



Will
shop.scooteretti.com
 
It does Will, all the posts help. I get what you are sayings, sort of. So if you have 2 equal bikes with the same tires etc the batter with the higher rating will allow for more miles per charge.

Did you see the link I posted on the Haibike Saduro? What is your thoughts on the ability of that bike to lug a 240 pound man who will be in retirement (read old) up big Tennessee mountains?
 
@DaveinMtAiry, If price is a concern then go the Yamaha route if you are OK with spending a few extra $$$ I would search for a bike with the Bosch CX drive unit.

This is the old Ford vs GM debate but for me I prefer the ride on a Bosch. Ask 10 people and you will get a mixed bag of responses. To give you an idea most of the staff here at Scooteretti ride with Bosch.

regards,



Will
shop.scooteretti.com
 
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@Scooteretti I did learn the Bosch motors are preferred but yeah, this is going to be one of many hobbies so the budget is no more than 2 grand. That appears to be the Yamaha which I was told offers a lot of torque and folks here say are capable hill climbers. Just wish I could ride one up a REAL hill to know for sure.
 
DaveinMtAiry said:
@Scooteretti I did learn the Bosch motors are preferred but yeah, this is going to be one of many hobbies so the budget is no more than 2 grand. That appears to be the Yamaha which I was told offers a lot of torque and folks here say are capable hill climbers. Just wish I could ride one up a REAL hill to know for sure.
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Well five years gives you lots of time for trials! VVBG.
 
Dave, I am now retired and spent many months last fall researching and test riding ebikes here in northwest Arkansas (hilly). I wanted a complete (lights, rack,etc) commuter and paved trail bike that could also do some gravel if needed. My conclusions: (1) best low-priced ebikes were from Rad, in my case the RadCity at $1500 complete with front suspension, lights, rack, etc. Only problems were disc brakes are manual, not hydraulic (requires more hand strength on these steep hills) and bikes are heavy due to heavy hub motor (15 lbs). Strong hub motor and battery, would climb steep hills with strong pedaling assist from me (I weigh 175lbs). (2) Next price level up is $2300 MSRP and bike is 2018 Trek Verve, with Bosch Active line mid-motor, hydraulic disc brakes, lights, and strong dealer network. Has no front suspension, but I would add seat suspension for comfort. Very nice ebike for the money from one of the "big 3" manufacturers, and hills no problem. Unlikely to get much of a price break for awhile this year. (3) Ohm Urban made in Vancouver with very strong BionX-D hub motor made in Canada (8.8 lbs). All top quality bike components and custom ebike frame but pricey ($4K list). Went on sale for $3K last week of December for 2017 models, I bought one and am very happy with it.......... My points are, go for quality components if possible, and be ready to buy on sale or last years model if that happens. The Haibike Sduro on sale that Will recommended is a great buy at that price - because you can wait to buy you can shop, then snap up a particularly good buy when you find it. That is the way I would go, because except on sale or last years model quality bike components never come cheap. Hope this is useful info.
 
Nice review, but I have to say I cringe at any bike with a proprietary battery/controller communication system that locks one into expensive, read overpriced, batteries. Bion-X is one such problem IME.
 
Thomas Jaszewski said:
Nice review, but I have to say I cringe at any bike with a proprietary battery/controller communication system that locks one into expensive, read overpriced, batteries. Bion-X is one such problem IME.
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Thomas, you are of course correct about the pricey ($1300 est) battery with controller hardware inside it. If I didn't have the example of Ken S who has literally racked up thousands of miles on his Ohm BionX bikes and batteries (on his 2nd bike now) I may have passed this bike up. But Court's reviews of the various Ohm bikes gave me the courage to take the plunge, and now I am glad I did. The strong but near silent push of the Bion-X D motor is very very nice, and the smooth shifting of the Deore XT+ is great without the jerkiness and concern about the added wear and tear of a mid-motor on my derailleur and chain. Quad-piston brakes are smooth and confidence-inspiring on our steep hills. Will I be happy to fork up $1300 down the road for a new battery - no, but with my limited pleasure riding (projected 100+ rides for 2000+ miles a year) it will be many years before I need a new battery. If I was 20 years younger and using this bike as a daily commuter I would indeed be concerned!

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