Total Noob Here, Need Your Help

[DaveinMtAiry]

OK pardon my ignorance on electronics but nowhere did the specs show amps, unless I missed it. I just read motor watts and battery volts. So is a 500 W motor with a 48 volt battery more powerful than the same 500 W with a 36 V? Or has that 750 W motor already used the volts and amps to come up with that rating? Man I feel so stooopid here. Interesting that states have different regs. No surprise that Tennessee has less strict ones. Again my concern is torque to get my fat ass up big hills, I don't care to go fast, there is a reason I quit riding motor cycles decades ago. I wonder how the MD people would know if I tried to ride a 750 W here, will the makers not ship to a MD address?

In looking at the fat tire bikes it appears as if they are not that suitable for pavement. I don't see beach riding or dense forest riding, mostly pavement and gravel trails. Is that fat tire a bad idea for that kind of riding?

Like the idea of renting or simply demoing a few before deciding.

 

[tomjasz]

Last two posts were interesting. I looked at RedRover and found 750 W and 48v with throttle option and great customer service for $1,500, sounds like a great deal. Why do you prefer fat tires? I still don't have a handle on 36 V vs 48V, is t just range or does 48V boost power?

Thomas hit on my initial thought, I would never buy a car without driving it so I'd like to go the bike shop route. But they are much more expensive. I don't want to convert my bike, it's old and will still be used on trips to the beach.

I dislike fat tired bikes. I'm selling mine at a loss. I prefer comfort bike with fatter tires, 2" - 2.5". Bikes like the Townie. Crank forward, upright riding position, with heads up view. I found the fat bikes to be cumbersome and an uncomfortable riding position. I have three models of flat foot bikes and really like them the most. Easier to mount and just uber comfortable. I ride some trails that are compacted soil and just don't need the features of a mountain bike of fat bike. FB's are all the rage. You're on track. Ride and decide! I one form 36V to 48V and then to 52V. From 15MPH to 30MPH bikes and now I'm backing of and going back to 36V. I don't need, or like the speed. 36V are fast enough. My newest build used a controller and motor that can rune 36V or 48V. 36v are becoming less available as Americans have the need for speed. But they are available from the better battery builders.

 

[tomjasz]

OK pardon my ignorance on electronics but nowhere did the specs show amps, unless I missed it. I just read motor watts and battery volts. So is a 500 W motor with a 48 volt battery more powerful than the same 500 W with a 36 V? Or has that 750 W motor already used the volts and amps to come up with that rating? Man I feel so stooopid here. Interesting that states have different regs. No surprise that Tennessee has less strict ones. Again my concern is torque to get my fat ass up big hills, I don't care to go fast, there is a reason I quit riding motor cycles decades ago. I wonder how the MD people would know if I tried to ride a 750 W here, will the makers not ship to a MD address?

In looking at the fat tire bikes it appears as if they are not that suitable for pavement. I don't see beach riding or dense forest riding, mostly pavement and gravel trails. Is that fat tire a bad idea for that kind of riding?

Like the idea of renting or simply demoing a few before deciding.

Ah refers to available power capacity the battery has an it translates into mileage. A 500W motor with a 48V battery can be faster than a 36V. But there can be exceptions and the controller plays a role. Don't get to wrapped up in worrying. Again that trial ride will give you a feel. Often people do wish they had more speed, but I suggest many bikes are to fast for their brake systems. Seen more in DIY than ready built bikes. I suggest reading on Micah Tolls site. Ebikeschool.com I started learning from Micah and he's now developed a great resource. A nice young engineer who has brought basic common sense and plain talk to the plate.

Do you have bikes now? If so, are they comfortable? Do you like them?

 

[DaveinMtAiry]

Ah refers to available power capacity the battery has an it translates into mileage. A 500W motor with a 48V battery can be faster than a 36V. But there can be exceptions and the controller plays a role. Don't get to wrapped up in worrying. Again that trial ride will give you a feel. Often people do wish they had more speed, but I suggest many bikes are to fast for their brake systems. Seen more in DIY than ready built bikes. I suggest reading on Micah Tolls site. Ebikeschool.com I started learning from Micah and he's now developed a great resource. A nice young engineer who has brought basic common sense and plain talk to the plate.

Do you have bikes now? If so, are they comfortable? Do you like them?

So the Volts is more for speed and range but not torque to get up a hill?

Yes I have a bike a Giant hybrid. It is very comfortable once I added extenders to the handle bars that allow me to sit more upright. Before that I had to sit up and ride no hands (not hard obviously) to give my back relief.

If I demo one I won't be able to try it on the big hills we have. I guess I need to rent one?

 

[Dewey]

Is a 500 W motor with a 48 volt battery more powerful than the same 500 W with a 36 V?

...I'm no electrician, a higher voltage battery has the potential to supply higher current to the motor but I understand it depends on the controller settings, throttle or pedal assist level set by the rider, and how many amps the controller can dump into the motor particularly the quality of the mosfet switches that transfer amps to the coils.

will the makers not ship to a MD address?
...I should think most US ebike manufacturers will ship anywhere, certainly the Chinese kit suppliers do.

I don't see beach riding or dense forest riding, mostly pavement and gravel trails. Is that fat tire a bad idea for that kind of riding?
...fat tires provide more rolling resistance on pavement, but also might provide a more comfortable ride if your bike lacks a suspension fork soaking up the potholes.

Like the idea of renting or simply demoing a few before deciding.
...Good idea to test ride before you buy, also you might want to find a shop that has a no-hassle return policy.

 

[vincent]

i like fat tires for stability, they switch terrains easier and i am a more novice rider, they also tend to be pretty smooth

but even plus size tires would help

agree with thomas on the step thrus and flat foot type bikes, ideally for me would like a step thru fat tire but there are not many of them and the elux weighs like 75 lbs stock

if you have big hills would think a mid drive is going to be better for you
my rad rover with me, rack and bag with tools etc is heavy- even with 750 watts pulling hills on it is not as easy as a mid drive

it will do it but there is a difference in how they do climbing

if renting is available i would totally do that , especially if you can rent a mid drive and a hub to try

 

[tomjasz]

So the Volts is more for speed and range but not torque to get up a hill?

Yes I have a bike a Giant hybrid. It is very comfortable once I added extenders to the handle bars that allow me to sit more upright. Before that I had to sit up and ride no hands (not hard obviously) to give my back relief.

If I demo one I won't be able to try it on the big hills we have. I guess I need to rent one?

OR you could have someone convert the bike you have.
Battery voltage is pretty straight forward. 48V is more powerful than 36V. The voltage has no direct correlation to range. The number of cells in the pack determines the Amp Hours, Ah, and that gives the mileage factor.

 

[DaveinMtAiry]

Really struggling to find any mid drives in my price range. Every single one was a hub drive. Would this be an example of the advantages of waiting a few years?

 

[tomjasz]

Really struggling to find any mid drives in my price range. Every single one was a hub drive. Would this be an example of the advantages of waiting a few years?

Kit for your existing bike? OR someone here posted they are building bikes with Mac geared motors. They are capable of more climbing than a hub motor. Are you recreational riding? Do you have lots of grades to ride up? My pal in San Francisco rides those hills with a Mac gear drive motor.
BTW where are you located?

 

[tomjasz]

Here's good article on mileage,
http://www.ebikeschool.com/range-anxiety/

Build option?
http://www.ebikeschool.com/build-ebike-instead-buying-one/

Wattage explained
http://www.ebikeschool.com/myth-ebike-wattage/

How much power do you need?
http://www.ebikeschool.com/much-power-electric-bicycle-need/

Geared and direct hubs,
http://www.ebikeschool.com/geared-hub-motors-vs-gearless-hub-motors/

Front hub, rear hub
http://www.ebikeschool.com/front-hub-motors-vs-rear-hub-motors/

A front hub is the easiest to build. AND contrary to many they can be decent conversions. Just nit great hill climbers. One of my 6 is a front. It's my grocery runner around town and backup bike.

 

[tomjasz]

BTW, since I was buying a kit, and already knew I like and was comfortable on my bike I felt I didn't ned a trial. If I had it to do again today I'd likely buy the same kit I ride today, the BBSHD 1000W 48V with as large a battery as fits the bike and my budget. However, I'd now try to ride a Mac geared motor and see if it wouldn't meet my needs. It's simpler and less maintenance. I think it's JUICED that posts here and may have a Mac motor.

 

[DaveinMtAiry]

Kit for your existing bike? OR someone here posted they are building bikes with Mac geared motors. They are capable of more climbing than a hub motor. Are you recreational riding? Do you have lots of grades to ride up? My pal in San Francisco rides those hills with a Mac gear drive motor.
BTW where are you located?

As I said I don't want to convert my bike, I want to start new and keep my existing bike to travel to the beach with. Currently we live in Maryland, on the edge of Appalachia and our road is extremely hilly. The move is to the mountains of Tennessee so climbing hills, not speed or range, is my priority. But as this is strictly recreational I can't justify spending thousands if I don't have to. But I would like it to last for the rest of my life under normal use and I'm willing to wait a few years if I can get better value.

 

[Dewey]

Really struggling to find any mid drives in my price range.

The BBS02 500W 48V mid drive kit might fit the bill. The advantage is it will have 500W stamped on the motor to satisfy MD law, then when you move to TN you could buy a USB cable and reprogram the controller amp setting to increase the amps to 25A and turn it into a 750W nominal 1200W peak power version. I bought my similar BBS01 kit from California Ebike and battery from Luna Cycle. To meet your budget you would need to use a Chinese vendor but shipping is expensive and support uncertain if anything goes wrong which is why I chose to go with reputable US suppliers, paid more but received good after sales support. The Bafang isn't a turn key conversion, I needed help from my local bike shop to remove the bottom bracket which had seized up, and unless you buy a chain ring spider/adapter you lose your extra front chainrings which turned my 21 speed into a 7 speed bicycle so I needed a new chain, to be fair I don't miss so many gears because I stay mainly in 4th and change the PAS level to maintain a comfortable pedal cadence. Also because I bought kit and battery from different suppliers I needed to solder matching electrical connectors to battery and motor.

 

[Dewey]

As I said I don't want to convert my bike, I want to start new...I would like it to last for the rest of my life under normal use and I'm willing to wait a few years if I can get better value.

The Populo Sport is a lightweight single-speed ebike under $1k, the nearest dealer to test ride one will be in New York. Or Hybrid Pedals in Arlington, VA, is an ebike dealer with a warehouse in Baltimore they may have an ex-rental or previous year's model in stock but it's likely to be a heavy Pedego with a low-power motor. Neither is optimal for hill climbing, Thomas is right a Bafang mid-drive converted used MTB frame might be best.

 

[tomjasz]

As I said I don't want to convert my bike, I want to start new and keep my existing bike to travel to the beach with. Currently we live in Maryland, on the edge of Appalachia and our road is extremely hilly. The move is to the mountains of Tennessee so climbing hills, not speed or range, is my priority. But as this is strictly recreational I can't justify spending thousands if I don't have to. But I would like it to last for the rest of my life under normal use and I'm willing to wait a few years if I can get better value.

I apologize, there were a lot of posts and I missed a line here and there. Mid drives appear to be the bikes you'll need, unless a gear drive will suffice. Full circle to find a bike shop and try out. Some folks like Biktrix are doing Bafang mid drives in value bikes. Give Roshan a shout. He's a good fella and takes good care. If you want to keep the budget down Bafang mid drives are the route.
Waiting a few years? I'm sure there will be more innovations. If it's not urgent then wait and try more bikes out over time. While Bosch and Shimano equipped big name bikes will be expensive, they will be well supported by their dealer network. Some of the offerings I've seen from Trek, for example, are really great bikes. I've had my Trek for years. Although I did the electric conversion. By the way, converting you current bike doesn't turn it into something that can't be used on the beach. You'll have a beach bike with assist. Unless it's having bikes in two places is the issue.
Also use the search function here. and look at electric mountain bike reviews. That is the class you'll likely want for those hills. Sorted low to high.
https://electricbikereview.com/category/mountain/?sort=price_asc

Mid drives start at $1500 and they will be the better climbers. Any comfortable mid drive will pretty much do it all. Except aggressive trails.

https://electricbikereview.com/category/mid-drive/?sort=price_asc

 

[tomjasz]

Thomas is right a Bafang mid-drive converted used MTB frame might be best.

Except he says he wasn't comfortable in the Giant until he changed the handlebars to a comfort position. Mountain bikes will be a more aggressive riding stance.
As I aged I found Townie style bikes to be the most comfortable. Sit up straight, no pressure on the hands and a wide eyed view of the surroundings. If electra made a mid drive it would be the perfect aging adult bike. IMO. Easy on, flat foot stance with crank forward advantages. I take mine on light trails, bike paths, hills (rarely but I can), and beach. There is no ready made bike for me. Shops will do conversions these days. OR even the most clumsy can manage a conversions with the right tools. (yes I did)

 

[tomjasz]

What IS your price range?

 

[DaveinMtAiry]

So just to be clear even a 750 W hub drive won't be strong enough to get 240 pounds up a steep hill? I really need a hub drive? If that's the case I may as well forget this idea for a few years, the prices may come down and we can pay off our newly finished bathroom.

Just saw Thomas' last question. Price range? I'm thinking $1,500 or so.

 

[tomjasz]

It's not the strength as much as the design. It will over heat. WHAT IS THE BUDGET? How much of a hill?
Direct drives are the worst.

 

[vincent]

Why don't you check out Rad Powers Facebook page and see if maybe someone close to you as one of their bikes try on some hills