Total Noob Here, Need Your Help

[DaveinMtAiry]

Yeah I went in to this thing thinking 2 grand, then I saw good reviews on bikes way less and that led me here. I still go back to my timeline and the belief that advancements will change things down the road and hopefully cheaper and more power.

The conversion idea is a thought. My Giant is already heavy and my concerns is with all this added it would be difficult to transport. Now I throw it in the truck and take it for rides on the upper Potomac, not sure I could lift the damn thing fully loaded. In the future we will travel from Tennessee to the beaches of Maryland where we will visit, again this bike may be too heavy to be practical. But then again I am thinking a conversion kit can always be moved to another, newer and lighter, bike in the future.

 

[tomjasz]

OK last bit of input. I don't think a decent bike can be had for less than $600. Under that and the components get cheap. Brakes and wheels are downgraded. I like stopping efficiently. And then the motor and battery. A decent kit is easily $500 and a battery $500-600. That's a low ball battery from one of the famous discount sellers. A good longer range battery more like $650-700. The cheaper bikes are just that. Cheaper and lesser quality. I found the most comfortable frame. $500, a motor, $650, 20Ah battery $600 and from there added better seat, seat post with suspension, mirrors, fenders, bell, rack, misc tools and before long, $3000.

Your idea isn't a bad one. Do the existing bike and get a new bike down the line. My bike weighs 65lbs with the smaller battery. The nice part of building from a kit is that it can be somewhat incremental. Unlike many here I don't care for the discount battery resellers. I paid more for my batteries but here in the 4th season I'm glad I did.

Take a real look at where these hills are. I helped a guy out last week, and when pushed he realized he'd never be out riding on those hilly roads and in that traffic. Realistically most of his riding with the Missus would be on recreational bike paths and city streets. We dd a geared hub drive and battery kit from EM3ev. $1300 with all the good stuff and a 20Ah 36V battery. 20MPH and will do 14% grades even a bit more. Add $100 for a middle BBSHD and a 52V 20Ah battery to do some seriously steep grades..

Cheaper is out there, but again, lesser quality batteries. I've worked with dozens and dozens of builders and watched scores more. Pay now or pay later. Those 30-90day battery warrantees stink.

 

[tomjasz]

Yeah I went in to this thing thinking 2 grand, then I saw good reviews on bikes way less and that led me here. I still go back to my timeline and the belief that advancements will change things down the road and hopefully cheaper and more power.

The conversion idea is a thought. My Giant is already heavy and my concerns is with all this added it would be difficult to transport. Now I throw it in the truck and take it for rides on the upper Potomac, not sure I could lift the damn thing fully loaded. In the future we will travel from Tennessee to the beaches of Maryland where we will visit, again this bike may be too heavy to be practical. But then again I am thinking a conversion kit can always be moved to another, newer and lighter, bike in the future.

Hubs will not advance to be climbers. Nothing goes down in price. Maybe batteries will. More likely they'll just get more powerful. People like to think they brought lower prices to batteries when I fact they brought lower quality and more of them. Look at the last 5 years and tell me what has advanced? The motors are still pretty much the same. The best hub motors are still hub motors and the advancements have been to motors much faster than most bikes ought to be equipped with. I don't call that advancement. Bosch and Shimano are advancements. But when we look back a little harder they are actually quite a bit older designs than we realize. Lab to street again...slow, very slow.

 

[DaveinMtAiry]

Hey everyone, I wanted to stop by to give an update. Convinced a mid-drive is the way to go I went to the HaiBike link and found a dealer not too far away. I called to see if I could do a test ride and was told they do not have any in stock, they order on demand as they are purchased. Makes sense I guess, that's an expensive item to have sitting on the floor. But it does not help the guy who wants to ride before he buys.

But we got to talking and I learned that most manufacturers are moving away from hub to mid-drives. He was also the 2nd bike store person to tell me that the prices will go down as technology advances. He said honestly I am better off waiting a few years if I can, which is obviously the case. I sure hope by then to find a shop that will allow a test ride.

 

[mrgold35]

Hey everyone, I wanted to stop by to give an update. Convinced a mid-drive is the way to go I went to the HaiBike link and found a dealer not too far away. I called to see if I could do a test ride and was told they do not have any in stock, they order on demand as they are purchased. Makes sense I guess, that's an expensive item to have sitting on the floor. But it does not help the guy who wants to ride before he buys.

But we got to talking and I learned that most manufacturers are moving away from hub to mid-drives. He was also the 2nd bike store person to tell me that the prices will go down as technology advances. He said honestly I am better off waiting a few years if I can, which is obviously the case. I sure hope by then to find a shop that will allow a test ride.

I'm not sure if I would wait for the latest and greatest technology to come available down the road compared being able to ride everyday? One thing I learned from my $1500 Radrover is what I like and dislike, what I can and can't do, what I want and don't want, and wish list for my next ebike. I would even go for a cheaper bike now that is the 80% solution that fits your riding needs instead of waiting for the 100% solution (perfection can be the enemy of progress).

I found out with my Radrover and +2000 miles are:
- I need a high speed front suspension commuter bike with heavy lift and rack storage options
- also need a second single track full suspension ebike to maximize trail riding fun

My Radrover fills the gap and I can accomplish both tasks with one bike as the 80-90% solution until I'm ready to upgrade to something else.

 

[DaveinMtAiry]

As I said this bike is for retirement in Tennessee in 7 years. I'd like one now but can wait, I need this bike to last me well into retirement so that's another 30 years (hopefully). If I can get a bike now that'd be great but it's just not as much of a priority in getting a better, cheaper, bike for the future.

 

[Dewey]

He was the 2nd bike store person to tell me that the prices will go down as technology advances.

A couple of years ago you had to spend $3500 to get a Bosch mid-drive in the US. This year the Electra Townie Go! has the Bosch motor for $2600. For 2018 Bosch are providing e-bike manufacturers an 'Active Line Plus Generation 3' entry motor to compete with the Shimano Steps that currently runs about $2000 on sale, as the article says the knock-on effect will be to lower the price of competing hub motor e-bikes.

 

[DaveinMtAiry]

A couple of years ago you had to spend $3500 to get a Bosch mid-drive in the US. This year the Electra Townie Go! has the Bosch motor for $2600. For 2018 Bosch are providing e-bike manufacturers an 'Active Line Plus Generation 3' entry motor to compete with the Shimano Steps that currently runs about $2000 on sale, as the article says the knock-on effect will be to lower the price of competing hub motor e-bikes.

Well there you go, thanks

 

[tomjasz]

While I agree, sure, don't NEED and eBike wai. Certainly there will be advancements. That said the fellow is daft. Some manufacturers will NEVER have mid drives. There is absolutely no sense or need for the complexity. A Direct Drive, or gear drive hub even, are so darn simple and reliable. I expect those technologies to improve with thinner laminations and better material engineering. They will be come smaller and lighter and more stealthy. I've had more than a half dozen mid drive motors and have sold half of them off to convert to far simpler hub drives where there is absolutely no need for the complexity of a mid drive. Now, there are places and situations where there is NO replacement for a mid drive, and I expect they will advance and we will have some well advanced products. But they will always be more complex and higher priced than hub drives. Please don't use your rationalizing the reasons to wait to paint the industry with one bike shops opinion. I almost feel bad for you, knowing what you are missing, All he best of luck on your search. Remember, you can't take it with you and life has many twists. I always ran from possible personal regrets and enjoyed life in the moment. I had my first eBike the month I knew what they were.

 

[tomjasz]

Well there you go, thanks

Prices can only go so low. Look at the prices of bicycles. QUALITY bikes and components have NOT gone down in price. The lower prices quoted are comparing apples to oranges. Two different motors with NO mention of the quality of the frames and bike components. GOOD and HIGH quality bicycles and components have gone UP in prices. I paid $400 in 1973 for an entirely Compagnola italian road bike. $4000-6000 today if I'm not mistaken. The frame I used for my builds came down in price and so did nearly every component. To the point I won't ever use that frame and bike again.

 

[DaveinMtAiry]

While I share your "live for today" attitude Thomas I also understand the longer I wait the longer it will last. What I mean is by the time I'm 75 it is better to have a 15 year old bike than a 27 year old bike. I don't have the budge to buy two of these things so I'm perfectly willing to wait a few if that means I'll have a newer, more advanced bike at the time in my life when I will really be using it.

 

[Dewey]

Prices can only go so low.

True, I bought a Bafang BBS01 mid-drive motor because of the large user base giving first hand reports of their reliability - I bought my battery from a US supplier though because I don't want my house burned down. Chinese quality control is variable, look at the state of this rim can you imagine shredding your tube at 28mph!

 

[tomjasz]

True, I bought a Bafang BBS01 mid-drive motor because of the large user base giving first hand reports of their reliability - I bought my battery from a US supplier though because I don't want my house burned down. Chinese quality control is variable, look at the state of this rim can you imagine shredding your tube at 28mph!

There isn't any USA builder except for AllCell. If someone sold a battery that isn't allcell and represented it as USA made. they are scamming.
Every other battery pack comes from China and there is absolutely no problem with a battery built in China. It all depends on the builder.

I have two BBS01's from 2014 and they've been rock solid. I do clean and lubricate before every season or once a year. Nice motors in my experience too!!

 

[tomjasz]

While I share your "live for today" attitude Thomas I also understand the longer I wait the longer it will last. What I mean is by the time I'm 75 it is better to have a 15 year old bike than a 27 year old bike. I don't have the budge to buy two of these things so I'm perfectly willing to wait a few if that means I'll have a newer, more advanced bike at the time in my life when I will really be using it.

You can't take it with you...
As one who had sudden changes and drastic changes in fortune and health, living for today left me with few regrets. I just worked on a 30 year old bicycle, and it was high quality when made and is still fabulously well made and durable. But I'm into bikes. And I appreciate age. <wink>

 

[Dewey]

There isn't any USA builder except for AllCell...there is absolutely no problem with a battery built in China. It all depends on the builder.

Maybe assembled in the US, don't Luna buy quality name-brand cells from Korea and Japan, unsure where the BMS are made, but assemble and quality check their packs in California?

 

[DaveinMtAiry]

Very true that you can't take it with you. But again this is the only ebike I will buy so it needs to last until I die. So if that means waiting a few years I'm perfectly OK with that.

 

[tomjasz]

Maybe assembled in the US, don't Luna buy quality name-brand cells and BMS and assemble and quality check their packs in California?

No. A vast majority come from China. So do some cells. Continuing to allow that rumor to become urban legend is one reason many are disappointed. They make a few specialty packs but the bulk come from the same supplier as many others buy from.
There is ABSOUTELY NOTHING WRONG with well made packs from China. It's all about the resellers insistence on quality control. I have around 8 or 10 packs from China, some direct from the builder, some from them. They're better than first couple I built. All BMS are from China. No one can build electronics at the price point from China. I just bought a radar board for a project. An actual small radar assembly for 53 cents. CRAZY!!

 

[tomjasz]

Very true that you can't take it with you. But again this is the only ebike I will buy so it needs to last until I die. So if that means waiting a few years I'm perfectly OK with that.

I'm with you 100% I completely respect your opinion. For whatever that is worth. My passion for eBikes often clouds my view. We all know what's best for ourselves!

All the best!

Tom

 

[Dewey]

I have two BBS01's from 2014 and they've been rock solid. I do clean and lubricate before every season or once a year.

Do you grease the metal secondary gears only or do you disassemble the motor to get at the nylon primary gear as well? Do you use Mobil 28 on both?

 

[JoePah]

Hi Dave, if I were you I wouldn't get anything but a mid drive eBike, either buy one or build one. And for your size and hilly terrain, buy the largest battery you can afford, no 36v12Ah minimum.

If you buy a kit, you'll be much better off since you can probably use the bike you own now, and the gear set will help you climb hills. Min 350w middrive motor.

Don't buiy anything from any big box store they are just not worth your time.

Really doubt you can buy what you want for 800... I'd spec out a kit and make that your goal... Prices aren't really coming down, they're just not going up that much.