Torque sensor performance

[smorgasbord]

From that graph it is really hard to comment on PAS and speed levels. We can infer something valuable if we have a torque-speed-cadence curves.

I remember some discussion of this (perhaps in a video with Bosch?) where this was discussed. I'll see if I can dig it up - but it certainly wasn't a true torque/cadence curve.

 

[smorgasbord]

Well let’s hope that excess controller is going to do a lot to smooth out the ultra motor!

hopefully we get some feedback on that soon

The Luna "ludicrous" controller is programmed the same way as the stock Bafang, so yes, it'll be interesting to see if Exess not only has a new controller, but new programming. I note that Exess says the Ultra "predominately uses the cadence sensor" (see https://www.exess-bikes.de/news/now-available-the-new-exess-controller ), which seems to go against what most people say about the Ultra. They're implying that even though the Ultra has a torque sensor, it relies more on the crank cadence. It is true that programming the Ultra's torque is done in 6 different cadence ranges (0,20,40,60,80,100), but the values are in Kg of pressure applied.

 

[Dicky Mo]

The software has as much to do with the torque sensor as the sensor itself (probably much more). I'm an outlier; I like my cadence sensor bike just as much as my RCS torque sensor and often I like it better. I need more miles an much longer trips on my RCS, but I certainly would not hesitate to buy a cadence only sensor bike if I liked it based on my previous experience. I have not yet tried turning off the torque sensor on the RCS, but I'll try that one day to see if I prefer it on the RCS. I can notice a vibration in the motor on the RCS at certain speeds/cadences/assist levels, it's small but I've felt more strange motor feedback on the RCS than my cadence bike which has never produced any type of unexpected feedback I could feel in the pedals. I wish I could tune the RCS for the right assist for each torque level and have the assist levels switch between different levels for the same cadence. It annoys me when often I increase the assist level and nothing happens unless change gears or cadence. The programming on this bike is not what I would do, but overall so far it's a nice bike with it's own unique quirks.

@CityExplorer You have captured my thoughts perfectly. I have a bike with a cadence-only kit and often enjoy the zippiness over my CCS2 with torque sensor, although I have gained an appreciation for the latter. The torque-sensor was a factor in the decision to get the CCS2, and my initial reaction was that a torque sensor somewhat defeats the purpose of an electronic bike in that you often need to pedal harder to engage the assist. I turned the torque sensor off, and the cadence-only mode was not enjoyable. The cadence sensor has been tuned to work with and optimize the torque sensor, and is extremely sensitive. In cadence-only mode my CCS2 would surge anytime the pedals moved millimeters without a conscious attempt to do so (ex. going over a bump). I have come to realize (as you alluded) that one's riding style must be changed to accommodate the mechanics of the assist. When on my cadence-only bike, I usually stay in one gear and adjust assist as necessary. When on my CCS2 with torque sensor, I stay in one assist level, and change gears as necessary. I prefer the cadence senor when not pedaling hard, like navigating a sidewalk or crowded area as a soft pedal will not generate an exaggerated surge forward. I enjoy and appreciate both styles of assist. Like you, I would not hesitate to buy a cadence-only bike.

 

[Explorer-1]

@CityExplorer You have captured my thoughts perfectly....

Thanks for your thoughts I think you may have described well one of the differences between how one might approache cadence vs. a torque sensor bike. I can say that to me I choose a gear on my cadence based bike like I do on my manual bike, and that is based on how fast i want to go on average on a flat surface, or how hard I want to pedal when going up an incline and then choose the assist level to make that match my cadence and my desired speed. At least mostly like that. I would expect that the nature of a torque sensor would allow me to do the same, but it appears not. Like you said it's almost like the torque sensor is actively working to remove the advantages of an electric bike once you've started and traveling at speed.

Have you used the 'cruise-control' on your Jucied bike yet?

 

[Dicky Mo]

I have not used the cruise control. Most of my trips are 1-2 miles on city streets. Heck I rarely use the throttle. I just like riding like I would a regular bike, but it is so nice to be able to get from point A to point B expeditiously and with minimal effort. Cheers. Stay safe and germ-free.

 

[Bruce Arnold]

Have you used the 'cruise-control' on your Jucied bike yet?

I use the cruise control from time to time. Occasionally it's nice to just roll along, looking at the passing scenery, without dealing with gears or PAS levels.

 

[Asher]

I think a lot of casual users won't notice a small lag. I recall my CCS having a small lag, under a second, maybe 0.25-0.5. the lag also seemed greater with less battery.

 

[teskow]

I have tried cruise control on my RC from time to time but maybe because of the hills where I live it does not work so well. It wants to surge as though it is searching.
I haven't tried it while in the cadence mode though. Could that make a differance?

 

[Bruce Arnold]

I have tried cruise control on my RC from time to time but maybe because of the hills where I live it does not work so well. It wants to surge as though it is searching.
I haven't tried it while in the cadence mode though. Could that make a differance?

The cruise control is essentially no different than your throttle, as far as the controller and motor are concerned. A throttle that you don't have to keep your thumb on. Being in cadence mode wouldn't change it. It doesn't change how the thumb throttle works either.

 

[Bryan Mcloughlin]

The cruise control is essentially no different than your throttle, as far as the controller and motor are concerned. A throttle that you don't have to keep your thumb on. Being in cadence mode wouldn't change it. It doesn't change how the thumb throttle works either.

Too bad, my cruise is all over the place also.

 

[Bruce Arnold]

Too bad, my cruise is all over the place also.

I'm curious. Is it all over the place if you're traveling on a flat, straight stretch? Mine varies with the load -- wind resistance, up and down hills, etc. That's because all it does is maintain a steady current, not a steady speed like a car's cruise control.

If yours is surging or sagging regardless of conditions, something is off in your controller and you probably want to start a ticket with Juiced while you're still in warranty.

 

[quinn]

I am having an issue with my ccs2 - not sure if it's the torque sensor or the brake sensor, or something else but if anyone has any ideas I'd love to hear.

The bike seems to "forget" it's an ebike for a bit. It will take anywhere from 2-10 seconds for the motor to turn on. I notice this happens when the brakes are applied, so my hunch is the brake sensor is mis-calibrated.

But lately, the bike won't seem to go into e-bike mode at all. It's just a very heavy bike now. The throttle works but not right away, and as soon as I let off, it dies. It's all on or nothing.

Any suggestions would be appreciated. Sorry if this is the wrong thread.

 

[quinn]

Update: turning off the torque sensor does not seem to change anything. I can get one or two "uses" out of the motor before it is completely unresponsive. The power does remain on, but the motor only outputs 4W.

 

[quinn]

Update again (how embarrassing). Troubleshooting proved it is the front break sensor. When I disconnect it, the bike works flawlessly. So my final question would be - how do I calibrate the front break sensor so it gets "unstuck" after use?

 

[Captain Slow]

There are sensors in the brakes to cut power when you apply the brakes. So for some reason the sensor is on telling the motor to cut power. Might be an adjustment or a faulty sensor.

 

[crawdad62]

Update again (how embarrassing). Troubleshooting proved it is the front break sensor. When I disconnect it, the bike works flawlessly. So my final question would be - how do I calibrate the front break sensor so it gets "unstuck" after use?

Interesting. I just received my RC2 over the weekend and I’ve notice basically the same symptom. Just less severe. Delayed engagement. Curious about brake sensor adjustment (if the is any) too.

 

[Bryan Mcloughlin]

I'm curious. Is it all over the place if you're traveling on a flat, straight stretch? Mine varies with the load -- wind resistance, up and down hills, etc. That's because all it does is maintain a steady current, not a steady speed like a car's cruise control.

If yours is surging or sagging regardless of conditions, something is off in your controller and you probably want to start a ticket with Juiced while you're still in warranty.

It is up and down on flats. It seems like mine is trying to maintain a speed,so watts are all over the place.

 

[Bryan Mcloughlin]

I'm curious. Is it all over the place if you're traveling on a flat, straight stretch? Mine varies with the load -- wind resistance, up and down hills, etc. That's because all it does is maintain a steady current, not a steady speed like a car's cruise control.

If yours is surging or sagging regardless of conditions, something is off in your controller and you probably want to start a ticket with Juiced while you're still in warranty.

Ya Bruce, on a level stretch with no wind it will vary by 150 to 200 watts. Now my throttle is exhibiting the same behavior. (Used to be very steady.)

 

[Bruce Arnold]

Ya Bruce, on a level stretch with no wind it will vary by 150 to 200 watts. Now my throttle is exhibiting the same behavior. (Used to be very steady.)

Sounds like a controller issue.

 

[Bryan Mcloughlin]

Sounds like a controller issue.

Yikes! I did see a video on a controller change-out and it seemed kid of daunting...