The Tariff Questions?

[jabberwocky]

The issue with the

Lots of legal immigrants speak Spanish also. Legal immigrants are welcome; deport the illegals and fine those that employ them.

The issue with this mentality is that it ignores the fact that its extremely difficult (bordering on impossible) for uneducated labor to legally immigrate to the US in most cases. Its not like these are people who are just too lazy to do some paperwork. Its either work undocumented or not come to the US.

If you dig into the status and history of lots spanish speaking legal immigrants, they have undocumented immigrants in their family history. They are second generation (parents were undocumented but they were born here), or they married someone with status, or had family here who could sponsor them, or have just been here long enough to build the history and savings to work on a green card. I have friends and coworkers who immigrated (generally from wealthy families or highly educated) and its a long, difficult process. Several years and 4-5 figures of expenditure. They are universally enthusiastic citizens. They chose to live here.

A few builders I work with are run by second generation immigrants. Their parents were "illegals" but built a life here, had kids, and those kids worked hard and now own successful companies that do good work and employ lots of people.

I can’t speak for who was employed to build the house I live in now (1981), but 4 years ago it was reroofed by a crew of white, english speaking locals.

The house I was general contractor for in the late 80s had no non-white, Spanish speakers as subs.

I work in the construction field. Sure, plenty of white english speaking subs. But also lots of immigrant labor, especially in areas with large immigrant populations. Its a great field for someone who doesn't have a lot of education or language skills but is a hard worker and needs to make good money. Construction has been undergoing a labor shortage for the better part of a decade at this point (though it accelerated massively post COVID). Trades put a lot of effort into recruitment but its a hard sell, especially when the job market is as strong as it has been the past few years.

IMO the best way to judge a subcontractor is on the quality of their work instead of their skin color or what language they speak. But you do you.

 

[February]

of the 1b+ global speakers of english, my experience (globally) is that about 95% understand each other. then again, my experience only includes most of the united states, the UK, continental europe, chile, peru, india, china, australia, new zealand….

the only regional variations of english which trip up most english speakers are the scots, in my experience. people learn english globally watching everything from jersey shore to british murder mysteries.

I also struggle with heavy Scot Dialects/accents.

 

[S.Sage]

My background is mostly in larger commercial construction management. One hospital project had 1,000 plus on payroll and I remember about three men had the same SS number and were "let go" as soon as payroll noticed. We had audits at least twice per year too, sub labor had to be documented and verified.

So, it can be done legally. We still chose to pay a strong wage that attracted quality workers. I avoided hiring non-skilled labor, that helps greatly, but costs more. My "labors" were paid higher than the illegal carpenters of the day. It pisses me off when I see companies hiring guys at $12 an hour to run a pipe setting crew. Those folks should be ran out of business.

Even in south Florida most workers spoke English well enough. When I was a General Foreman on small Podunk projects I would come across illegals on my payroll that I liked, so we would get them legal ASAP if they didn't have a criminal record. What I found out working with undocumented folks is that 90% had a criminal record, had warrants out on them in their home country, sometimes they were wanted locally for major crimes. So they would not give you their real name. So I never kept illegals on my payroll, you need to know who you are dealing with. I had a few convicts working for me, one non-violent drug dealer fresh out of a GA prison worked out good and became a Forman, but most relapse back into their old criminal ways. I loved working on medical projects and anything federaly funded, background checks were SOP.

 

[mschwett]

I also struggle with heavy Scot Dialects/accents.

didn’t they get subtitles in trainspotting?

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

of the 1b+ global speakers of english, my experience (globally) is that about 95% understand each other. then again, my experience only includes most of the united states, the UK, continental europe, chile, peru, india, china, australia, new zealand….

the only regional variations of english which trip up most english speakers are the scots, in my experience. people learn english globally watching everything from jersey shore to british murder mysteries.

Wife and I watch a lot of British murder mysteries and have to agree: The Scots are especially hard for us to understand. We've been known to rewind 10 times when a Scot says something that seems important to the plot.

However, the Kiwis aren't far behind — especially on the North Island.

 

[kevinmccune]

Lol on the English. There are so many dialects of it, that two people who speak the exact same language can't understand each other at all. As an anglophile I've watched British movies and shows since I was a child. I can understand broken English and all the UK and Irish dialects, even surprised one English immigrant by calling gasolene, petrol, but struggle with people from the deep south who speak like Boomhower from King of the Hill (by the way, as silly as they sound to us, we all sound like special needs to them). Just watched the series Say Nothing about "the troubles". While I understood every word of English being spoken, guarantee you a majority of Americans probably needed subtitles to understand what people were saying. Laughed when I read a few years ago, Indian telephone operators are now being taught to speak English with a heavy British accent.

that makes sense,because it will be camoflauge for awhile

 

[Roamers]

The issue with this mentality is that it ignores the fact that its extremely difficult (bordering on impossible) for uneducated labor to legally immigrate to the US in most cases.

We don't need to import uneducated; have plenty here already.

I haven't looked at immigration rules, but it should include "skills we need" criteria. Unskilled is not a skill.

 

[mschwett]

We don't need to import uneducated; have plenty here already.

I haven't looked at immigration rules, but it should include "skills we need" criteria. Unskilled is not a skill.

the “uneducated” native born are not willing to work at the rates that the jobs they’re qualified for pay. there are huge labor shortages across service industry and other sectors. we *do* need people to do those jobs, at least for the next 10 years or so. at some point it’ll all be automated away and we’ll have to embrace some form of UBI, population decline, or something.

 

[February]

didn’t they get subtitles in trainspotting?

Lol, I didn't need subtitles. And that is not what I would call heavy Scot accent. I've seen interviews with natives on the ground really stretching those vowels, it was difficult to understand some of it. I also like welsh, Irish and Sottish Gaelic, but don't understand any of those languages. Double lol, when I went to you tube to find an example, there was a video comparing Edinburgh vs Glasgow. Just watch the first minute of the video and you will see something familiar.

vs:

lots of good examples.

 

[February]

We don't need to import uneducated; have plenty here already.

I haven't looked at immigration rules, but it should include "skills we need" criteria. Unskilled is not a skill.

That's why doctors and programmers from India get a fast track through immigration. Yeah if you're a contractor and you are willing to pay comparable wages to Americans who refuse to do those jobs, I don't see what your problem is with having legal migrants do those jobs? Most of the Mexican migrant workers work in agriculture and meat packing(slaughter houses and processing) and return to Mexico when the seasons are over. If you are a contractor who thinks migrants are the ones making your life more difficult or costing you money, you're not paying attention.

Canada legalized recreational marijuana long before we did and it's still not fully legal in all states. Mexico, an overwhelmingly Catholic country voted Abortion rights into their constitution. Maybe what we need right now are more immigrants.

 

[Roamers]

the “uneducated” native born are not willing to work at the rates that the jobs they’re qualified for pay. there are huge labor shortages across service industry and other sectors. we *do* need people to do those jobs, at least for the next 10 years or so. at some point it’ll all be automated away and we’ll have to embrace some form of UBI, population decline, or something.

Once gov't assistance is gone, they will get hungry enough. If I did the emoji thing I'd do a thumbs down for UBI.

 

[Roamers]

I don't see what your problem is with having legal migrants do those jobs

Read back, legals are welcome. Got to get some of the "I'm too good for that" off gov't assistance before we know if we need to import unskilled.

 

[February]

Read back, legals are welcome. Got to get some of the "I'm too good for that" off gov't assistance before we know if we need to import unskilled.

So you're back to the 80's Reagan Welfare queen argument? Or you think people should work 80 hours a week for minimum wage, zero benefits or overtime simply to not die. Ok.... That one holds no water either. I once met a meat packer who had wires sticking out of the ends of his fingers because he accidentally put his hand through a meat saw. Sorry, man, if you think those people don't deserve medical attention without becoming indentured servants for the rest of their lives, well, cool I guess, but I think you are in the minority on that one. All welfare programs you are talking about constitute less than 1% of the federal budget. Again, you're not paying attention. The poors and those gaming the system are not the problem.

 

[Roamers]

So you're back to the 80's Reagan Welfare queen argument? Or you think people should work 80 hours a week for minimum wage, zero benefits or overtime simply to not die. Ok.... That one holds no water either. I once met a meat packer who had wires sticking out of the ends of his fingers because he accidentally put his hand through a meat saw. Sorry, man, if you think those people don't deserve medical attention without becoming indentured servants for the rest of their lives, well, cool I guess, but I think you are in the minority on that one. All welfare programs you are talking about constitute less than 1% of the federal budget. Again, you're not paying attention. The poors and those gaming the system are not the problem.

Not familiar with the Regan thing.

Both my SILs parents worked at "The Pack"; one of the best paying jobs in the city, they had all their body parts. I've heard things have changed.

I think you covered my beliefs, than continued with an emotional rant.

For clarity, I disagree with Federal Minimum Wage laws; pay is what the local market demands. I don't care how small the welfare is as a % of the federal budget; > 0% is too high. This is state/local level talk.

The federal gov't shouldn't be involved in things that favor or disfavor any person, group, community, state, etc.

 

[tomjasz]

deport the illegals and fine those that employ them.

until you phony shitz get higher prices and blame the wrong fellas. What spoiled little brats of crackers we've nurtured. PLONK.

 

[tomjasz]

Wife and I watch a lot of British murder mysteries and have to agree: The Scots are especially hard for us to understand. We've been known to rewind 10 times when a Scot says something that seems important to the plot.

However, the Kiwis aren't far behind — especially on the North Island.

And then there's Robin and golf,
1:45YouTube • Robin Williams Official YouTube ChannelRobin Williams Live on Broadway: Golf
The Hoof GP has mellowed my ears and I can now manage. Accents for me are just a matter of practice and exposure.

 

[tomjasz]

For clarity, I disagree with Federal Minimum Wage laws

Of course you do, you got yours and that's all that matters in your bubble.

 

[Roamers]

until you phony shitz get higher prices and blame the wrong fellas. What spoiled little brats of crackers we've nurtured. PLONK.

You will never see me complain about higher prices.

 

[Roamers]

Of course you do, you got yours and that's all that matters in your bubble.

Minimum wage is basically forcing someone to pay more than the value an employee. I suppose most like the idea of replacing people with automation.

Evidently minimum wage is $7.25. I have never seen anyone paid that little for even menial jobs since my kids and grandkids have been working.

 

[February]

Hopefully you won't see rioting and looting if the orange one gets one tenth of his wish list.

Minimum wage is basically forcing someone to pay more than the value an employee. I suppose most like the idea of replacing people with automation.

Evidently minimum wage is $7.25. I have never seen anyone paid that little for even menial jobs since my kids and grandkids have been working.

Then you aren't paying attention. Even Forbes came out with an article a few years back saying the wealthiest needed to chip in more, this was during the eat the rich days. They were warning about pitchforks and such if the wealthiest continued to exploit the lower classes. Even $15 an hour is not enough to support a single person, let alone a single mom or divorced or widowed dad. Nor adjusted for inflation is it near the over $20 an hour people were paid in the 60's at like a$1.50 an hour. Roamers, I don't expect to change your mind, but some reading you might want to check out: Howard Zinn: A people's history of America. They also made into a movie if reading isn't your thing. No man is an island unto himself and no one is self made. Everyone who succeeds does so with help. The richest amongst got there by being in the right place at the right time and exploiting others. Nor can you maintain wealth without exploiting others. I'm a capitalist just like you. The difference, I understand we are all in the same boat, drinking the same recycled water, breathing the same polluted air. It takes only one freak incident to turn a person's world upside down and none of us are immune from accident and catastrophe. I don't care how I'm remembered, I just care that we take care of each other instead of attacking each other. It's better for business and better for the soul than worshiping the profit motive and exploiting others.

And with that, I am officially tapping out of this thread, bought my Chinese and French bike components before the orange one can double their price. This nonsense is only going to cause great harm. I think you will live to regret that "I won't complain about rising prices" remark. It's all good until you realize the banks are as over leveraged now as they were prior to the 2008 collapse and some how the banks were stupid enough to start buying crypto which is just a ponzi scheme. If bit coin were worth anything the saudis or Americans would have done a major by out by now. No government is because everyone except the rubes know it's worthless. So if you are very well off as an American, you may care about the prices rising in tandem with another financial collapse. No one acted on the Dod Frank Act except to regulate swaps, which shouldn't be legal in the first place.

Peace out the tariff question thread-