That's your opinion. Not mine.
The price of eBikes is out of control
- Thread starter xenon
- Start date
That's your opinion. Not mine.
Actually I have. The bikes that are speced the same as lower priced eBikes costing thousands are extremely affordable. Of course they are made in china. They are cheaper than they were 20+ years ago not even counting inflation.
As I said the price for a decent bike has dropped. The fact that there are expensive bikes also (there were expensive bikes back then) doesn't change that.
pxpaulx
Well-Known Member
I promise you this, the ebike companies have come a long, long way from what they were doing 4-5 years ago. My first ebike, an easy motion neo xtrem (... Yeah that is how they spelt it!) Had complete crap for brakes and drive train. Think an 8x $15 of the shelf free wheel with 14-28t gearing and your there.
Fast forward to my new Evo pro 27.5 and you get a decent mid level drive train (2x10 11-34t setup) never mind the other significant advances (powerful 500w thru axle 48v 600wh system with almost double the battery capacity... Vs 350w 36v 326ah), fox float 32 vs suntour junk, much better control interface and much better looking battery integration and overall bike, for just $100 more MSRP.
Oh and I'll echo again, wait for a sale, haggle, buy a demo with full warranty and if your dealer won't do that find one that will. Nobody who pays MSRP should be complaining about high prices, if you pay sticker there is no one to blame but yourself.
Try riding that rinky dink spark down the road with minimal pedal effort.
Or, better yet, start making ebikes.
or, a full size REAL sea doo cost more than any ebike made, a lot more.
or, who would buy a cheesy spark when a far superior stx15f only cost a few bucks more.
or, on a ebike you're breezing down the street going somewhere, even the best personal watercraft is nothing more than a jet propelled cork, dodging boat wakes, probably bored.
I've had more pleasure from my overpriced stromers than any harley or dirt bike I've ever had.
Not sure I can put a dollar amount on pleasure.
Old guy with a couple stromers and a 2015 stx15f.
As one of my two hobbies...the one I do in the winter I Always wondered why these bikes were so expensive, always thought it was the battery. Unfortunately most people just cant drop 5k or 6k on a bike that has absolutely no resale value. I am trying to sell a lectric bike now to move up....its not even worth trying, I would be giving it away.
Now my second hobby, the one I do in the summer...jetsking. "Far superior stx15f"...lol...dude stick with bikes you know nothing about ski's. That ski has not changed in over a decade and still uses a darn lever for reverse, there is no technology on that thing, and it shows kawi has 10% of the PWC market! The "rinky dink spark" was the number one (Trixx) and two seller (3UP) last year. The 2017 Trixx can be picked up for 6800, the fact that electric bikes are even in the neighborhood is why this hobby is struggling growing in the states. The Trixx also has much more technology on it then any electric bike and the resale value is through the roof..
Which gets me back to my point I love my electric biking but the up front cost is way to much and the resale value is non existent hindering the growth of the sport. Skis like the Spark are also good for a family day, really tough to have a family day on one electric bike. Which unfortunately leaves the electric bike market for the wealth or for someone replacing an auto.
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rich c
Well-Known Member
Based on a 5 year expected life, and what I paid for them, owning my Haibikes is about the same price each year as a health club membership. No resale on that membership either. I go longer and faster on my eBike now at 65 than I can on a traditional bike. It's pure pleasure for me to be outside, compared to working out with other old people in a gym. I just got home from a 10 mile ride in 37 degree weather. Loved it. As has been mentioned, I paid far less than MSRP by purchasing a 150 mile demo in November, and another old model year in March. I have $5400 in two 28mph version XDURO Haibikes. I don't consider resale value for this kind of pleasure.
rich c,
good point, awesome the electric bike allows you to ride the way you desire. I use mine to ride off road trails to do things I normally wouldn't normally be able to do. Sounds like you got a sweet deal which is great!
But I am comparing the typical price someone would pay for an electric bike to something else to basically show how much these bikes cost compared to other things that have much more R&D, technology and if you buy at the right time comes with a 3 year warranty which costs BRP much more then any warranty a electric bike would have, you can even get a street motorcycle for the price of some of these bikes. I understand you dont want to resell but I do as I would like to get something different or even newer at some point. I agree its basically a real luxury to own an electric bike but so is owning the Spark and you get much more bang for your buck with excellent resale value.
Sorry I just the love the hobby and come back to it every winter but the cost of some of these things is absurd!
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Over50
Well-Known Member
I'm totally with you on this one. I hate gyms and more so hate driving to gyms: so I keep a few free weights at home, an exercise bike, a compact stair climber and my bicycles.
Good regular bikes are expensive. Good e-bikes are expensive. I think its purely a simple matter of economies of scale (small companies making small batches for niche products). I think owning an inexpensive car over 100,000 miles might run anywhere from 30 cents to 60 cents per mile (I Googled and made some simple assumptions about gas cost, insurance etc to come up with those figures). So it seems if you can manage to get 15-20K miles on a $5,000 e-bike (adding on expenses for replacing parts, buying a new battery etc) that you could get the cost per mile similar to that of car ownership. Then whereas there is no resale, you can consider the health benefits of riding 3,000 or more miles per year as making up for some of that zero resale (and as you point out, forego the gym membership). Anyway, I currently own 2 e-bikes and 2 regular bikes and could probably be considered more of a hobbyist (ie still own and drive a car). A lot of hobbies cost money and the enjoyment the hobby brings justifies some of the cost (or so I tell my wife). It doesn't seem strange to me that a good e-bike could cost $5K but I could get a good scooter or motorcycle for a similar price. Considering the economies of scale, the infrastructure that favors one over the other (our cities haven't been built for bicycle riding) and the maturity of the technologies, the price comparisons really don't seem odd to me. Kind of apples and oranges in my view.
I happen to be
in the watercraft business and can tell you that the molds for Seadoo sparks where expensive up front there an automated system and they can pop out a complete hull in less then 3 min.
90% of all bike frames are still hand jigged and welded by hand.
For me to cope, prep, cut weld up a simple bike frame it’s roughly 2-3hrs time.
So now the spark is made by Bombardia who has there own engine plant as well as manufacturing facility. The spark engine is in 11 different models and snowmobiles. So it’s a mass produced engine.
Spark has electronics, starter motor and gauge cluster that are not manufactured by bombardia.
But the bikes all have aftermarket hardware, brakes, shifters, bars, derailed, tires, wheels, suspension.
All run the same distributor network system that was spoken about in opening of this post.
So when you only make 20% of your bike and your purchasing 80% of the components your price structure is not so good.
But we as consumers are a big problem in the price of bikes.
How many would buy an off brand bike with no name components??
Take away the Shimano shifters, no Rock Shox or Fox suspension and no name cranks sets and chains and gamble 2800 or you gonna step up buy a 4600 bike with all the proven components??
i happen to be
in the watercraft business and can tell you that the molds for Seadoo sparks where expensive up front there an automated system and they can pop out a complete hull in less then 3 min.
90% of all bike frames are still hand jigged and welded by hand.
For me to cope, prep, cut weld up a simple bike frame it’s roughly 2-3hrs time.
So now the spark is made by Bombardia who has there own engine plant as well as manufacturing facility. The spark engine is in 11 different models and snowmobiles. So it’s a mass produced engine.
Spark has electronics, starter motor and gauge cluster that are not manufactured by bombardia.
But the bikes all have aftermarket hardware, brakes, shifters, bars, derailed, tires, wheels, suspension.
All run the same distributor network system that was spoken about in opening of this post.
So when you only make 20% of your bike and your purchasing 80% of the components your price structure is not so good.
But we as consumers are a big problem in the price of bikes.
How many would buy an off brand bike with no name components??
Take away the Shimano shifters, no Rock Shox or Fox suspension and no name cranks sets and chains and gamble 2800 or you gonna step up buy a 4600 bike with all the proven components??
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Since you are trying to justify the cost of an ebike compared to something that has so much more technology a few things need to be cleared up for future readers about your posts.
"Bombardia" I think you mean Bombardier but it doesnt matter Sparks arent made by Bombardier or Bombardia but rather BRP ( Bombardier Recreational Products) which is different then Bombardier and no one in the industry would refer to Bombardier as the manufacturer of the Spark.
"Bombardia who has there own engine plant" factually untrue. BRP uses Rotax engines. They have been in business much longer then BRP almost 100 years. They make much more then engines for BRP a matter of fact they are much more known for aircraft engines.
"can tell you that the molds for Seadoo sparks where expensive up front" yea thats an understatement, they were the first Ski and to this point the only company to come to market with PolyTec. Can you imagine the R&D that had to be done, not even in the same world as any ebike. As for as 3 minutes I dont know how you would know that and I dont think BRP even makes the Spark hulls but can you imagine how much the setup to make these hulls is.
"90% of all bike frames are still hand jigged and welded by hand" really...seems like an awful high percentage to me.
No big deal but I just dont believe you are in the PWC industry from your post and you shouldnt say as much to mislead people.
I get it you sound like you are vested in the ebike industry....awesome...I love the hobby and people that make quality bikes is great! I just dont think there is any justification for the prices
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Ann M.
Well-Known Member
As a veteran E-Bike dealer, please let me share just a bit. Very few frames are hand built for electric bikes. No, there are not giant margins on the sale of ebikes. Please drop irrelevant comparisons of the production of electric bikes to personal watercraft. You can have a perfectly fine ebike without paying a massive amount of $$; however, some of the technology and components can cost more which does add to the price. Simply choose an electric bike that fits your budget; the idea is to get outdoors and ride and have a good time.
The significant discounts on the older models is typically the result of excess inventory of small and large sizes which they'll figure out in time. I purchased a Haibike Trekking model at a significant discount but it' was a really big bike for me to ride (60cm frame size) I still enjoy it but ended up changing the forks to have a longer steer tube to raise the bars, bought a shorter stem, and a 0 offset seat post so I could shorten the reach to make it comfortable for me to ride.
I think bike companies could reduce the number of frame sizes if they allowed these accessories (stems, steer tubes, bars, seat tubes) to be swapped out for sizing. Just create a sizing kit that could be dropped into the bike box that comprises these components and make one frame size (this should work for people from 5'2" to say 6'4" which is a significant % of the population. If you are taller or short than that just deal with a bike not perfectly sized or walk.
I think you have a good point on how an eBike is perceived - just a fun toy or a serious form of transportation. This summer I started riding to work as much as possible which is about a 25 mile round trip. I actually bought a $500 eBike originally and learned very quickly it was not up to the task of being a serious urban commute bike (it was great for riding around the neighborhood but not much else). Personally I think the trend towards Class 1-3 eBikes (ie basically legislation to allow DMV and insurance companies to ruin the industry because they will not establish long term reasonable rates) will hurt the adoption of eBikes as a serious form of transportation. It makes sense to have speed limits on paths where differentials of bike speeds may increase risks, but when someone is on a 60lb eBike on the street they are far less safe if they are limited to assist speeds of 20 or 28mph. It's no wonder that most serious commuters are finding way to de-restrict the speed controls on their eBikes. Anyone that thinks the police have the time or the equipment to check the power of every eBike motor or it's speed capability is probably someone working at DMV or an insurance company wanting some revenue stream from eBikes and will never ride one.
Gogogordy
Member
Keep in mind that early adopters (which we still all are...) always help pave the way for better product, at lower prices as product segments evolve and mature over the course of time.
That said, while I bought at the mid-level of “inexpensive” ebikes, I feel there’s a lot of great quality and technology offered at $1500 - $3000 range.
I shake my head at ebikes which hit 4,5,6+ thousand but just because I dont value them that much doesn’t mean I consider them to be priced “out of control”. Just outta MY comfort zone for what they are.
That said, while I bought at the mid-level of “inexpensive” ebikes, I feel there’s a lot of great quality and technology offered at $1500 - $3000 range.
I shake my head at ebikes which hit 4,5,6+ thousand but just because I dont value them that much doesn’t mean I consider them to be priced “out of control”. Just outta MY comfort zone for what they are.
Lot of loud mouths not saying much of anything in this thread.
You think because my auto correct fixed bombardia from bombardier makes you think for a brief second I’m not in watercraft industry. The spark is a pos plastic entry level watercraft, that’s had record number of major failures conspired to many other models.
I know how long we did development on the Yamaha wave raider, and working with fox for last 10yrs I know what they put into the development of just a set of forks.
Take the anitials from my screen name and cross reference them to tnt performance engineering.
Not only will you find how wrong you are about me being in watercraft business but you will find we been in the business since 1987. Not only are we in the business we also manufacture water craft products that are the only ones in the industry who build come pipes. So we know a thing or two about what automation does for production costs.
And spark, Fff, and few other boats have been made from poly’s.
The molds are made in-house on Cnc platform and cost about 80,000 to make.
Each hull cost less then 75 bucks to manufacture.
Along with, hoods, seats, seat bases, cowlings.
Then when you actually do some home work you find I also worked for Yamaha R&d for some time. As well as spent 12yrs as a professional watercraft racer.
Also look deep into Rotax and BRP.
Then you mention price of ebike.
Well what about the price of a high end mountain bike. What I paid for my Bulls ebike you can’t buy half the name brand 160mm travel mountain bike.
I don’t see the cost for some of them as you stated but I have found there some great ebikes out there for much less then the Haibike and there no compromise in components or build quality.
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Rick Speicher
Member
I think it is really about perception. If a person looks at bikes, or ebikes, as toys they will always seem way over priced. I build custom ebikes and some are way expensive and some are not. I sell economy models for around $1200-1500. These are real commuter quality bikes for people that use them daily for their commute, some doing 50 miles a day round trip. What other kind of transportation can you get for that? A good car? no. A good motorcycle? If you buy used and shop hard, and are willing to get a base model, maybe. A good ebike, to someone viewing it as viable transportation, is worth every penny, to someone who views it as a toy, not so much. As traffic and the cost of gas continue to grow, this perception is bound to change.
Rooster
Active Member
For $1500 and the know how you can build a pretty descent ebike for yourself depending on the battery, that's the most expensive part. J.S.
Rick Speicher
Member
You don't even need that much know how! My neighbor saw one of mine, asked a few questions, borrowed a few tools, and a week later he was riding his own! You can DIY, a great ebike for well under 2k, if you just believe in yourself! After all, you have a vast knowledge base here on EBR, everyone here wants to help you get on an ebike. Learn all you can about the kits available, borrow or buy a couple of bike specific tools you need, and you can DIY!
BTW, my neighbor is 69 and we now do a weekly ride on Saturdays of 30 to 50 miles. The total cost of his build, including a very nice new bike, was just a little less than $1700.
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