The Green Room

[Air2air]

What data/argument are you trying to make here?

I'm an Emergency Manager in BC, and I'll tell you that this was an exceptional year and one of our worst for many reasons, even though our hectares burned did not break any overall records. Our costs of firefighting are limited by resources available to purchase and deploy, not the actual need on the ground, or else that number would have been much higher as well. Human impact was up significantly, and the Wildfire Incident Commanders I worked with all summer were at a total loss to explain the fire behavior we witnessed. There wasn't a IMT Commander who didn't use terms like "Haven't seen this type of extreme fire behavior in my 30+ years", or "Completely unprecedented fire spread rates for BC" in briefings. There are many reasons charts don't show gigantic spikes, and your chart clearly shows an increasing baseline since the 60's - despite more money and physical resources available to deploy than ever before.

Marty it's good to hear it from the horse's mouth, I trust your info 100%.

Unlike clickbait that shows the world on fire with a picture of Greta.

 

[Handlebars]

Probably not multiple. The only logical one would be some "let it burn" policies in the name of forest restoration and natural fire management. Due to human, property, and timber value impacts, those generally account for only the most remote fires though, and many if not most of those fires would have been fought with minimal resources anyway, so the overall seasonal impact is pretty insignificant. We just don't have that much area that isn't settled anymore either, so we are forced to keep fighting fires aggressively. All area stats prior to the 50's (when we learned to use all the surplus WW2 aircraft to fight fires very effectively) are in a category of their own. A 60-year trend is too big to be a typical periodic/local/seasonal climactic cycle, and the effectiveness of our equipment, technology, and financial resources are so far ahead of the 60's, that there is very little possible explanation for why we see trends like that. Individual years can vary greatly when fires happen primarily in remote areas vs urban interface zones (like in BC in 2018 when we burned 1.3 million ha mostly in northern BC - our record to date), but the multi-decade trends don't vary like that.

Thank you.
And what about timber cutting. Has that remained steady ?

 

[PedalUma]

The thaw causes a positive feedback loop of thaw. With negative consequences. Darker surfaces absorb more heat on land and at sea. Methane is released as the permafrost thaws. All causing more thawing. I have not heard discussion of the long lost pathogens that are awakening. The US military is aware and planning for famines, displacements, conflicts. It is a security issue. Navy subs use sonar. Temperature changes the tone of sonar. They deal with it daily, it is how they communicate. With a tonal shift one craft can sound like another. The sea strata of temperature is changing fast as are flow and convection currents.
Photo of Echo Bay Marina, Lake Mead California, 2021. Water skiing anyone?

 

[Handlebars]

As Earth Warms, Old Mayhem and Secrets Emerge From the Ice

Climate change is revealing long-frozen artifacts and animals to archaeologists. But the window for study is slender and shrinking.

www.nytimes.com

Thank you Thomas. here's one back for you
https://judithcurry.com/2021/10/31/week-in-review-science-edition-130/
"The discovery of whale bones and marine shells at ancient beach sites along the shores of west Greenland 32 to 36 m above today’s shorelines have been dated to 5000 to 9000 yrs ago. Beach sites were still ~6 m higher than now 1500-2000 yrs ago. [link] "

Just a short time ago, 6 meters higher. Blame CO2 ?

 

[Air2air]

The thaw causes a positive feedback loop of thaw. With negative consequences. Darker surfaces absorb more heat on land and at sea. Methane is released as the permafrost thaws. All causing more thawing. I have not heard discussion of the long lost pathogens that are awakening. The US military is aware and planning for famines, displacements, conflicts. It is a security issue. Navy subs use sonar. Temperature changes the tone of sonar. They deal with it daily, it is how they communicate. With a tonal shift one craft can sound like another. The sea strata of temperature is changing fast as are flow and convection currents.
Photo of Echo Bay Marina, Lake Mead California, 2021. Water skiing anyone?
View attachment 105712

PedalUma Lake Mead, along with other California reservoirs, is dry because of California's incompetent water storage and usage policies. Other lakes and reservoirs in other states are perfectly full because they are not part of our water system.

Every day, California government flushes 2 million cubic feet of Sierra water (40% of our needs) straight past your house and mine into the Pacific. This has wiped out the Central Valley's ecosystem and emptied our tiny reservoirs - as your picture shows.

 

[Mulezen]

Thousands of these incremental changes are needed each year. Governments can encourage these these developments, and in the US at least fund them via a Carbon tax and the erasure of tax breaks. https://newatlas.com/energy/magtor-efficient-compressor-energy-efficient/

 

[Catalyzt]

The rest of us look at the scientific data, here from National Interagency Fire Center :

Er... any special reason you didn't provide an actual link to this page? What, did you think no one would notice that-- or that no one would bother to manually type in the URL and check your source?

Yeah, that was just your first mistake. When I typed in that URL manually, here is the page I got:

Wildfires and Acres | National Interagency Fire Center

The National Interagency Coordination Center at the National Interagency Fire Center compiles annual wildland fire statistics for federal and state agencies. This information is gathered from the Incident Management Situation Reports, which have been in use for several decades. It is reported by...

www.nifc.gov

Looks a little different, doesn't it?

Maybe the totals from pre 1999 got removed because of a deep-state plot to push a radical green agenda! What other reason could there be?!

Or... maybe we should engage our prefrontal cortex-- just for an INSTANT-- and think about statistics before we post them, ya think? Did you question, even for an instant, how the f*ck could anyone have reliably calculated that 50 million acres burned in 1930? In what alternate reality would that make any sense?

Maybe the US had diesel-powered satellites with 35mm film in orbit pre-Sputnik. Who knew?

I guess it was an honest mistake.

Or maybe you knew the stats made absolutely no sense, and you actually got your information from an obsolete source, and deliberately failed to mention it. Would it be too cynical to suggest you actually used older, obsolete data from the "Heartland Institute" or some other cesspool source, and either didn't check the data yourself or failed to disclose the reason why the old data was removed?

Is someone actually paying you to spread misinformation, or do you do it for free?

 

[Catalyzt]

Patricia it shows your openness and tolerance of diverse views, and your ability to defend your opinions instead of going to ad hominem insults.

Liberals used to be able to debate topics without running away to the ignore button and insults. But notice that your cohorts here can't do anything but.

I would read up on logical fallacies, because calling someone a fool is not an ad-hominem attack. She's not saying your argument is invalid because you are a bad person, or you have defects of character, or because of your religion, politics, skin color, etc. She just doesn't want to argue with you because she believes your reasoning is defective.

Hey, some of my best friends are fools! And a lot of them are the hell of a lot of fun. I just don't turn to them for any serious thinking.

And what makes you think the people who disagree with you are liberals? I'm certainly not. Barry Goldwater was a conservative and an avid environmentalist. So was William F. Buckley. Didn't agree with everything he said, but that guy was brilliant. Had the honor of hearing him speak once-- audience full of hippies, too. Didn't get a standing ovation, but pretty damn close. They asked hard questions, he answered every one of them. There was a man you could respect, even if you disagreed with him, even if you hated his politics.

 

[Mulezen]

I saw this quote the other day which seems spot on
Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them.
— Barry Goldwater

 

[Handlebars]

I would read up on logical fallacies,

Never a bad idea. Here:
"Ad hominem (Latin for 'to the person'), short for argumentum ad hominem, refers to several types of arguments, some but not all of which are fallacious. Typically this term refers to a rhetorical strategy where the speaker attacks the character, motive, or some other attribute of the person making an argument rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself. The most common form of ad hominem is "A makes a claim x, B asserts that A holds a property that is unwelcome, and hence B concludes that argument x is wrong". wiki

She just doesn't want to argue with you because she believes your reasoning is defective.

but he did not say she used ad hom to defend against his or others' arguments. He mentioned offering them INSTEAD of defending ideas.

instead of going to ad hominem insults.

I would read up on logical fallacies, because calling someone a fool is not an ad-hominem attack. She's not saying your argument is invalid because you are a bad person, or you have defects of character, or because of your religion, politics, skin color, etc. She just doesn't want to argue with you because she believes your reasoning is defective.

 

[Rocket Dan]

The rest of us look at the scientific data, here from National Interagency Fire Center :

For the masses perception is reality.

The only thing that changed regarding wildfires is that the media has increased the intensity, frequency and especially the dramatic with which they report them plus they didn't cover those who happened on the other side of the globe back then, now they do.
But in reality it hasn't really changed much.

You could easily create the perception that anyone is in an imminent threat of getting shot and people would believe it.
All you needed to do is to big media reports of anyone who has been shot, dramatise and emphasize it, repeat it again and again in all the news shows and make it the main issue.
Of course nothing has changed compared to before. People are still getting shot every day to the same degree as before. The only thing that changed is the media reporting about it and thereby peoples perception because their reality is substantially based upon what the media tells them.
So if you did that people would think that murder had skyrocketet even though nothing changed except for the media propaganda.

It is no accident that 7 people own 90% of the U.S. media?

 

[Mulezen]

For the stupid masses perception is reality.
That's why they use Greta Tuna-berg.
She is a pawn who is being used by her puppet masters to get people away from their logical brain into their emotional brain where logic and reason doesn't exist.
Then they are being fed the propaganda.

Look in the mirror…blocked

 

[john peck]

60 degrees yesterday morning, 30 years ago I´d be scraping the frost from my windshield, but it´s still
a hoax...right?

 

[Handlebars]

60 degrees yesterday morning, 30 years ago I´d be scraping the frost from my windshield, but it´s still
a hoax...right?

That you think 30 years of personal memories proves something like global warming, that is a self-deception or joke, not a hoax.

 

[ChezCheese:)]

Mulezen's dramatic Washington Post photo above about Greek fires was just crying for furthur investigation at the actual sources (below).

WaPo's photo is from the Greek island of Evia, and the arson suspect is shown arrested in the tweet below.





View attachment 105586View attachment 105587

View attachment 105593

Really? How very convenient to be able to blame it on Muslim refugees. Certainly no chance of coersive interrogation on the part of the police there...

 

[ChezCheese:)]

60 degrees yesterday morning, 30 years ago I´d be scraping the frost from my windshield, but it´s still
a hoax...right?

I haven't had to turn on the radiant floor heat yet, whereas 10 years ago I'd be struggling to avoid turning it on in early October.

 

[Handlebars]

I haven't had to turn on the radiant floor heat yet, whereas 10 years ago I'd be struggling to avoid turning it on in early October.

Really? How very convenient to be able to blame it on Muslim refugees. Certainly no chance of coersive interrogation on the part of the police there... T

The difference is he's reporting official business whereas you're reporting your unfounded assumptions and biases.

 

[john peck]

Really? How very convenient to be able to blame it on Muslim refugees. Certainly no chance of coersive interrogation on the part of the police there...

I blame it all on homlny grits & MSG.

 

[PedalUma]

What is a river? There is the Herman Hess sense. Then animals such a river otters, salmon, ducks. Rivers require something called water. Without that it is not a river. Water is not wasted in a river and more than oxygen is wasted in the air. Pumping aquifers dry to create unnatural lawn deserts in the deserts is dumb.

Here is the bike I made electric today. No backpack. No ugly wires. No visible connectors. No throttle. White Industries and Paul components. 11-sp.

 

[Air2air]

Pumping aquifers dry to create unnatural lawn deserts in the deserts is dumb.

PedalUma, can you specifically tell us how and why bringing water into deserts is "dumb"? I thought water was a "human right" according to you guys.

When the desert gets millions of gallons of rain all year it's okay to you, but a sprinkler is an apostate sin.

Why? Because humans are doing something without Lefty control. We don't need the blessing of the Birkenstocks to re-green the deserts, creating oasis environments for animals and plants.

I spend a lot of time in Death Valley where aquifers are plentiful thanks to the unlimited water supply of the Sierras. Man-made oases like Furnace Creek are hugely successful ecosystems for all kinds of animals.

It's so nice for people, flora and fauna I even see you guys with Subarus with Bernie stickers there. They can grit their teeth and try some personal hygiene too.

Furnace Creek