The Green Room

[john peck]

My husband loves VW. He had a VW diesel Jetta and loved the fuel mileage he got. He also resisted even changing to gasoline using the same rational that I am seeing in a few posts here, "nothing we do will make any difference if coal-fired electric plants China and India keep spewing out pollution." Then the emissions scandal hit. I pointed out the high pollution levels in European cities (for example) thanks to VW and others circumventing the regulations. He started in on the "If China and India don't blah blah..." I said, kindergartens at street level in Berlin test at dangerous levels of pollution because those cars are kicking out pollutants going by right outside in the streets. It doesn't matter what China and India do: people need cleaner air right where they are. We're not breathing the air in Delhi or Beijing (thank goodness). But we need less pollutants here and now. One time he was idling his car on our forested property while he loaded stuff into it. I said pointedly, "Bill! 40 cars are idling in my woods!" He shut off the engine. Eventually he turned in the diesel car and got a gas one. Me, I would have preferred that he not give any more money to a corporation which had willfully set back environmental progress 20 years, but I have to take my small victories where I can. I also got him to replace his honking big diesel pickup with a gas version when it was totaled.

Regardless, I think we are doomed. Honestly. We don't deserve this planet. 2 million years from now, whatever species manages to become ascendant will say, "The Anthropocene Era ended very quickly. Nobody knows why. Maybe a virus. Maybe a conflagration. It's a mystery..." So I plant trees and am working to prevent more trees from being cut down. Only trees will outlive us.

Since 1970 animal populations has decreased by 68%. At that rate by 2045 the only thing left will be cockroaches. Maybe C-19 should be
mandatory. We just ain´t dyin´ fast enough to preserve life on earth. 200k dead is still less than 1/10th of 1% of the U.S. population.
more than 3 million Americans die each year from all causes, & that´s still less than 1%. (.89% of 1% according to the CDC website )

 

[Art Deco]

I don't think things, although bad, are that dire for people. This particular "lifestyle" of McMansions, SUVs, gas stations, and supermarkets won't be much more than a brief period of very high growth and damage in the timeline of humans on Earth. Like adolescence supercharged with fossil fuels.

The whole industrial revolution is only a couple hundred years out of the many thousands of years of world History.
So the lifestyles change. We have done that before...

 

[Art Deco]

The shap of fossil fuel supplies in the long term. Nuclear is never going to pay off as long as there is nuclear waste to deal with, and renewables weren't even on the table then. We are about peak oil as predicted... that means half the oil is still in the ground...the too expensive to burn half.

 

[john peck]

The shap of fossil fuel supplies in the long term. Nuclear is never going to pay off as long as there is nuclear waste to deal with, and renewables weren't even on the table then. We are about peak oil as predicted... that means half the oil is still in the ground...the too expensive to burn half.

There will always be a need for petroleum; It´s too valuable a resource to just burn promiscuously.

 

[Dallant]

There will always be a need for petroleum; It´s to valuable a resource to just burn promiscuously.

All you have to do is watch the huge number of single occupant huge pickups (diesels especially) as commuter vehicles to see “burn“ promiscuity. There may always be a need for petrol but the cost will skyrocket when it’s no longer easily attainable.

 

[Art Deco]

Petroleum is the feedstock for lubricant, fertilizer, insecticide, and every kind of plastic in the world.

Plastic is a true miracle substance... rigid building materials that can last a century, flexible, sterile medical tubing, etc..
But we like to use it to put garbage in so it stays fresh for centuries and for throw away packaging that wasn't needed at all. Makes sense to someone.

 

[john peck]

Petroleum is the feedstock for lubricant, fertilizer, insecticide, and every kind of plastic in the world.

Plastic is a true miracle substance... rigid building materials that can last a century, flexible, sterile medical tubing, etc..
But we like to use it to put garbage in so it stays fresh for centuries and for throw away packaging that wasn't needed at all. Makes sense to someone.

The packaging industry must change, but only legislation will make that happen. There´ś too much money in fabricating trash. Packages
must become standardized & reusable, with a stiff deposit charge to insure that they are. We cannot continue to defecate in our nest
the way we have been.

 

[Art Deco]

The packaging industry must change, but only legislation will make that happen. There´ś too much money in fabricating trash. Packages
must become standardized & reusable, with a stiff deposit charge to insure that they are. We cannot continue to defecate in our nest
the way we have been.

Plastic Flows Into The Ocean Expected To Triple By 2040 - ValueWalk

A new analysis finds that without immediate and sustained action, the annual flow of plastic into the ocean could nearly triple by 2040.

www.valuewalk.com

It will change and probably very quickly. But I doubt it will be legislation (alone). Like fracking it will become uneconomic once the cost of feedstock oil goes up.

However the damage didn't need to happen in the first place. I'll talk more about plastics and artificial materials later, but really it's huge what oil can do if you don't burn it.

 

[Art Deco]

back to weather .. four seasons ... or climate .. or back on topic. Fires and Floods were debated. Blame it on Arson, Earth Spirit, or Fossil Fuels ... there is an issue with wildfires and hurricanes worldwide.

We need to either deal with the weather and climate change while its small or leave it to the generations coming after us to deal with it. Kick the Can...

 

[Browneye]

I'm just glad it finally cooled off. Now it's gonna get too cold to take a RV trip up the coast. You just can't win.

I would like to plan an overland route to Texas from LA, and do some mountain bike riding in AZ and NM.

 

[Art Deco]

A well thought out article on our fossil fuel powered economy when oil demand drops off a cliff like coal did.

Fossil Fuel Production Is Reaching Limits in a Strange Way

Production of oil, coal and natural gas is likely to decline in the near future because of low prices. Instead of high prices, we will get a very troubled economy.

ourfiniteworld.com

 

[FlatSix911]

Interesting reading... https://electrek.co/2020/10/23/egeb...cation-save-americans-billions-cooling-paint/

Key points:

• A new study shows that up to $321 billion could be saved in the US with a 100% switch to green energy.
• The US will go green regardless of who wins the US election, but the outcome will impact the speed — and climate change.
• A new cooling paint could cut building emissions and reduce temperatures by 18F.

 

[Art Deco]

Regarding coal. Aprox. 10 years left anywhere in the world before renewables are cheaper than coal.

4 astonishing signs of coal’s declining economic viability

Coal is now a loser around the world.

www.vox.com

What I want to see is a solar powered solar panel plant. It takes lots of energy to make solar panels, and AFAIK we still don't know their lifespan, but quesses are 40 years, not 400 years, so they are a bit like batteries.

 

[FlatSix911]

Regarding coal. Aprox. 10 years left anywhere in the world before renewables are cheaper than coal.

4 astonishing signs of coal’s declining economic viability

Coal is now a loser around the world.

www.vox.com

What I want to see is a solar powered solar panel plant. It takes lots of energy to make solar panels, and AFAIK we still don't know their lifespan, but quesses are 40 years, not 400 years, so they are a bit like batteries.

Good question... I have friends that work for NASA and they tell me the first panels in orbit are still functioning at 80% after 50+ years.

I can only hope the Solar panels on my roof last that long... 12 years and going strong with PG&E utility paying me every month.

 

[Art Deco]

Good question... I have friends that work for NASA and they tell me the first panels in orbit are still functioning at 80% after 50+ years.

I can only hope the Solar panels on my roof last that long... 12 years and going strong with PG&E utility paying me every month.

I believe the 20yr life on panels was more about accounting for expected life than engineering. Companies depreciate a lot of assets and equipment over 20 yrs, so that number sounded right. There are aparently 40 yo panels still putting out most of their new rating (20 or 30 watts, not hundreds of watts). OTOH 20 yo inverters may still work, but it will probably pay off to replace them.

 

[Sierratim]

Good question... I have friends that work for NASA and they tell me the first panels in orbit are still functioning at 80% after 50+ years.

I can only hope the Solar panels on my roof last that long... 12 years and going strong with PG&E utility paying me every month.

Our business relys on solar panels, and PG&E grid power for night time power. We installed the system based on a 25 year life span. Longer would be great, for our kids...

We considered solar for our home, but there are too many big evergreens nearby to be practical. We could cut the trees down, but we do live in the trees for the forest, so to speak.

 

[john peck]

Our business relys on solar panels, and PG&E grid power for night time power. We installed the system based on a 25 year life span. Longer would be great, for our kids...

We considered solar for our home, but there are too many big evergreens nearby to be practical. We could cut the trees down, but we do live in the trees for the forest, so to speak.

Ditto, Here in the temperate rainforest wind & hydro aren´t much better options, a lot of cloud cover october thru april.

 

[Art Deco]

Our business relys on solar panels, and PG&E grid power for night time power. We installed the system based on a 25 year life span. Longer would be great, for our kids...

We considered solar for our home, but there are too many big evergreens nearby to be practical. We could cut the trees down, but we do live in the trees for the forest, so to speak.

The most important part of a successful solar installation is a large south facing roof in a sunny area. The rest is pretty easy.

 

[Deleted member 18083]

Caring for the planet?

Silbernagal Family
Riese & Mùller Load 75​

Here's an interesting article about 'sustainability' and ebiking, especially involving a large cargo ebike…

Easing up Everyday Life with a Riese & Müller Load 75​

I seem to have mislaid one of the children! (Riese & Müller's publicity shot is rather special in GIF-format, so follow the link. Thanks R&M!)

 

[FlatSix911]

Caring for the planet?
View attachment 70111 Silbernagal Family

Riese & Mùller Load 75​

Here's an interesting article about 'sustainability' and ebiking, especially involving a large cargo ebike…
Easing up Everyday Life with a Riese & Müller Load 75
A model for a sustainable world?
I seem to have mislaid one of the children! Wonder whether the parents have that problem, too?

I love sustainable transportation, however, having 6 children is certainly not going to reduce their carbon footprint and save the planet.