Tern S10 or Qualisports Dolphin?

[An_Professional]

Hey all, first post. I'm hoping to get your thoughts on a choice between the Tern Vektron S10 and the Qualisports Dolphin Plus.

Relevant info:
This would be for my 10-mile NYC commute from Queens to Manhattan, which involves the Queensboro Bridge (long, moderate incline on one side, steeper incline coming back). I weigh 175lbs, strong road cyclist, and comfortable maintaining and building bikes. The bike's weight and size are important, as this will be lugged up 30 steps to my apartment. UL certification is important - the Vektron is currently certified, but and apparently the Dolphin will be "next month." Hydraulic disc brakes are a must.

I understand that between mid-drive and hub motors these are largely different beasts; I was hoping to have a throttle but I suppose I can live without it. Seems like the Dolphin, although heavier, might be snappier due to the 48V/500W motor, but everyone says Bosch's motors are the best you can buy.

Although I've been using electric scooters to commute for years, my only experience with ebikes are the two powered Citibikes (one hub, one mid-drive) and a short test ride on the Vektron. I called a Qualisports dealer about test riding a Dolphin and mentioned I was also looking at the Vektron - he said "oh, that's like the BMW of ebikes".

Side note, the service aspect makes me a little nervous about the Dolphin. I've read a bunch of posts that Dolphin users had issues with the bikes initially, the few emails I've traded with them asking questions, their responses were odd, and I know of only one dealer anywhere close to me.

It's funny, I see tons of people in NYC riding random Amazon ebikes every day, but from all the reading I've done I understand it makes sense to invest in quality. I've read and watched everything I can find on these two bikes (and many more, narrowing it down to these two), but it's still hard to reconcile the Dolphin being **half** the price of the Vektron.

What do you think?

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

Welcome aboard!

I can only speak to the hub-drive option. NOT saying that would better for you, just pointing out the considerations if you go that route.

As a strong road cyclist, you might well prefer torque-sensing assist over the Dolphin's cadence-sensing assist. The power delivery will in all likelihood feel much more natural to you.

Before you settle on the Dolphin, make sure you test ride both types of assist. We did, and the torque-sensing won hands-down.

As for a throttle, I always pedal my torque-sensing hub-drive with effort — almost always at lowest assist — and enjoy it that way. But wouldn't part with my progressive throttle for the instant bursts of speed it provides. I consider it a valuable safety feature in traffic. Changing gears or assist level takes time you don't always have.

Whatever you do, test before you buy. And strongly favor buying from an LBS willing and able to service the proprietary electricals on your particular make and model. Your maintenance skills on the mechanical side won't help you there.

Good luck!

 

[EMGX]

Is the qualisports bike UL certified including both battery and charger? I didn't see that their product info mention this but maybe I missed it. I didn't see UL certification listed on the Tern either but being a Bosch system I assume it is.

 

[An_Professional]

Is the qualisports bike UL certified including both battery and charger? I didn't see that their product info mention this but maybe I missed it. I didn't see UL certification listed on the Tern either but being a Bosch system I assume it is.

According to qualisports and the local dealer, their “paperwork is in” and they will have UL cert “next month”. So that’s a no for now, which is a bit of a problem in NYC.

 

[harryS]

For commuting every day in all kinds of weather, and storing in an apartment, I guess it would have to be the UL certified Vectron. It's an appliance now, not a toy. You'll be keeping it inside at work too? Then you need the knowledge the battery is safe.

Why not defer a riding season of cold and slush and wait til Spring?

Looking at durability, I think the Vectron is more rugged. The motors won't matter for riding in NYC. I'm sure either will handle it. I've ridden thousands of miles on 20" folders for recreational riding, but never in slush or ice.

.

 

[An_Professional]

For commuting every day in all kinds of weather, and storing in an apartment, I guess it would have to be the UL certified Vectron. It's an appliance now, not a toy. You'll be keeping it inside at work too? Then you need the knowledge the battery is safe.

Why not defer a riding season of cold and slush and wait til Spring?

Looking at durability, I think the Vectron is more rugged. The motors won't matter for riding in NYC. I'm sure either will handle it. I've ridden thousands of miles on 20" folders for recreational riding, but never in slush or ice.

.

I use my scooter all year round, so I’d use the bike in the winter too. Anything to avoid the subways

This was actually a major motivation for getting an ebike in the first place. The scooter’s solid tires are bad in the wet/cold and worse when they’re worn. I’m much more confident on a bike - this should be a huge safety upgrade from standing upright on 8” hard tires.

 

[EMGX]

I looked into bike commuting or combined bus/bike but it didn't work out where I live for a 26 mile each way commute. At one point my employer was considering changing my office location to only 11 miles from home but with some very steep grades as I live on a mountain so I would have used an ebike also. For recreation I prefer mid drive torque sensing but as a commuter tool hub/cadence would have been fine.
Throwing this out there since you have experience building bikes. For a commuter IGH might be preferable to a derailleur system.
As an example this Tern IGH on CL is $600 and IMO would be an excellent commuter bike.

or this one with Alfine 11 speed IGH and disc brakes for a $1000 asking

And install a Tongsheng TSDZ2 torque sensing mid drive or a front geared hub motor if you prefer (although traction would be a concern riding in low traction road conditions). Ignore the members that post how difficult a mid drive is to install (some of those poser posters either never installed one themselves or needed a bike shop to perform some simple task like removing their bottom bracket cartridge).
UL certified battery for an aftermarket is more challenging but UL certified power tool battery could be used and with only a 20 mile round trip commute should be adequate, especially if you can charge at work. Just a thought, PS you can use a throttle on a tsdz2 if you choose a compatible display.

 

[EMGX]

I was just messing with this Walmart folder that I bought years ago for $200 to throw in my car and ride for exercise at lunch time and after work on the way home, not ebike converted at that time. There is a yard tool battery in the handlebar bag. Keep in mid that the bag is larger than the actual battery size. Weighed 40# a couple years ago when I had it installed with a heavier battery and fenders (but lighter tires). Takes about an hour total to install the mid drive, maybe double that time for someone who hasn't done it before.

 

[An_Professional]

Those are interesting options. I do like to build my own bikes (I have almost never bought a complete) and wouldn’t be opposed to a DIY option in the future when I have some more experience with the setup, but I think for this round I’d buy a complete. Remember also I’m storing this in my apartment - I can’t risk screwing something electrically with my family in the apartment.

I was looking into belt drives with IGH, but as a practical matter I need a powered option for the 59th Street Bridge. Not because it’s difficult, but because it’s a long, even and there’s no way for me to go over it without getting sweaty. I’ve tested this on my light road bikes and my hybrid (which is heavy, but still lighter than many folding bikes), even in easy gears. I’m just a sweaty guy.

 

[harryS]

By the way. I'm good at spending other people's money. I could never pay $3600 for an ebike. Here's one of my DIY folders with three battery configurations. First one is a tool battery under the seat for 15 miles, Second is my everyday bottle battery for 35 miles. Last is a downtube pack for 50 miles. The last two installations prevent folding, These could be installed on EMGX's bike. Oh yeah, pretty light too,

The tool battery is safe. The others less so. I've got close to 5000 miles over six years on the yellow bike. Originally a $300 Downtube Nova. Rear wheel kit about $300. Being DIY, I've had the electronics get flooded. Broken the displays about three times in accidents, Let's call it $1000 in labor.

 

[LycheeQ]

Welcome aboard!

I can only speak to the hub-drive option. NOT saying that would better for you, just pointing out the considerations if you go that route.

As a strong road cyclist, you might well prefer torque-sensing assist over the Dolphin's cadence-sensing assist. The power delivery will in all likelihood feel much more natural to you.

Before you settle on the Dolphin, make sure you test ride both types of assist. We did, and the torque-sensing won hands-down.

As for a throttle, I always pedal my torque-sensing hub-drive with effort — almost always at lowest assist — and enjoy it that way. But wouldn't part with my progressive throttle for the instant bursts of speed it provides. I consider it a valuable safety feature in traffic. Changing gears or assist level takes time you don't always have.

Whatever you do, test before you buy. And strongly favor buying from an LBS willing and able to service the proprietary electricals on your particular make and model. Your maintenance skills on the mechanical side won't help you there.

Good luck!

When you mention torque-sensing assist, are you referring to MODEL 5 by Qualisports? lol

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

When you mention torque-sensing assist, are you referring to MODEL 5 by Qualisports? lol

Sorry, don't know anything about that specific model. I was referring to the generic combo of a torque-sensing hub-drive with a throttle.

However, there are many different ways to implement a throttle — and for that matter, torque-sensing PAS. So I should have specified that I was offering for consideration a system like mine — one with a progressive throttle that just adds instant power, up to full power, in every non-zero assist level.

Unfortunately, the only way to make sure a particular ebike is set up that way is to test drive, cuz I have yet to see an official model page that describes throttle implementation in that kind of detail. And there's a good chance that LBS sales reps won't know, either.

 

[None]

I have had a Qualisport Dolphin since 2018.
It has never given me any issues. Yes, hub drive maybe a little heavy, but I'm not lifting it very often.
I'm able to leave it outside while I run my errands with minimal lock, take the seatpost battery with me if needed,
I don't have to worry about thieves eyeing for my cheap(er) ebike.
Depending on how heavy you are, 59th street bridge should be no roblem, for 500w hub motor with PAS on the Dolphin.
I ride on the Brooklyn Bride & Manhattan bridge, never an issue with power output of the Dolphin.

 

[Bicyclista]

@An_Professional, go with the Tern Vektron S10. It is a quality bike from a quality company that has many dealers across the country, including REI. If you ever need service, parts, or advice, having a professional network available is invaluable. We owned a Tern HSD S+, a great bike that gave us wonderful rides for 18 months; we then gave it to my daughter who has been using it to ferry her toddler to pre-school every day for the past year. It has never broken down.

When we had questions we were able to email directly with Arleigh Greenwald, Tern's Marketing Manager, and with Josh Schlee, Tern's Service and Sales Coordinator.

Yes, Tern costs more but it's worth it. Quality and service cost more. But it's more than made up in the safety, security, satisfaction, and pleasure a good product provides; and in the absence of frustration, time, and money wasted.

 

[An_Professional]

As an update, I ended up buying the Tern.

So far it’s been powerful enough, so I’m happy with that. I assumed it came with a Gen4 motor but from my research the Gen3 seems fine enough, and there’s a good warranty. It’s a bit cumbersome to carry up stairs but I’ll get the hang of it.

My one surprise is that it seems to be geared VERY easy. I find i’m in the smallest two cogs most of the time.
I also noticed that there seems to be a pretty intense ramp-down of power after 18mph, but after searching it appears this is normal.

So far I’m happy with it. It’s a huge improvement in safety and ride quality over my electric scooter.