SUV tires for Gazelle Ultimate C8+

[pinkfloydhomer]

Hi there,

I have owned the bike for a year and it's great. But it came with Schwalbe Energizer Plus 622-50 tires. They are okay, but I probably use the bike more off-road than they are designed for.

I am not talking about crazy stuff, I mostly use it as transportation for camping in the woods and crusing in the woods on forest trails. It means riding a lot on pavement to the forest area, then riding on forest trails cruising or to camp or if its very rough I will park the bike and carry stuff the rest of the way.

Think a touring bike that can also do non-pavement.

I am considering buying tires that are better for the purpose. I am thinking maybe a little bit wider than the current 50mm, like 55 or 60. And maybe a little bit less slick to have better grip on gravel, grass etc. And maybe a little more puncture resistance. And hopefully not too much of an impact on range or too crazy noise on pavement. Driving feel and comfort is also important to me.

I am considering tires from Schwalbe such as Al Grounder, Johnny Watts (maybe 365, I live in Denmark and plan to ride in the winter too, but probably less so), Marathon E-Plus, Marathon MTB etc.

Please help me decide, between these tires or any suggestion you may have.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Because of frame and mudguard clearances, you might not be able to fit any wider tyres. Wider tyres might even not give you what you want.

Consider either Specialized Pathfinder Pro 2Bliss 47-622 for faster rides or Specialized Tracer Pro 2Bliss in the same size for very strong grip on loose surfaces and still a low rolling resistance.

Both tyres can be safely run at the inflation of 2.8 bar for soft rides, even for a 100 kg rider as I am.

I can only tell you I was riding shallow sand on the Tracers today.

You can thank me later

 

[Mr. Coffee]

Those are both good tires, but for a 25kg bike like the Ultimate I'd argue they aren't very stout.

You can get the Schwalbe Hurricane in the same tire size and a lot of folks, myself included, find it to be a fine e-bike tire.

 

[pinkfloydhomer]

The bike has room for 65 mm tires they told me. 60 mm looks doable at least. But I am not sure how much grip or comfort it will add or how much range it will cost.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Those are both good tires, but for a 25kg bike like the Ultimate I'd argue they aren't very stout.

I have the Pathfinder Pro on a 26 kg Vado, and i weigh 100 kg. The tyres work like a dream at 2.8 bar

 

[Stefan Mikes]

The bike has room for 65 mm tires they told me. 60 mm looks doable at least. But I am not sure how much grip or comfort it will add or how much range it will cost.

If you put a wide tyre into a rim optimized for a 50 mm rubber (the internal rim width of 25 or 27 mm) then the wide tyre will deform. It will perform badly, and it is probable it could get damaged early.

Fancy a baloon pushing the rim edge at any wheel rotation.

 

[pinkfloydhomer]

If you put a wide tyre into a rim optimized for a 50 mm rubber (the internal rim width of 25 or 27 mm) then the wide tyre will deform. It will perform badly, and it is probable it could get damaged early.

Fancy a baloon pushing the rim edge at any wheel rotation.

I get what you're saying, but they told me that up to 65 mm is within limits. Also, on my other bikes I've been used to a wide variety of widths on the same bike, on my roadbike 23-35 mm. Going from 50 to 55 or 60 should not be a problem.

 

[AvalancheRun]

Saw that someone online went with a smaller wheel size to make a wider tire fit their Ultimate. The wheels being better also made a difference to comfort. If I went that route, I'd want to see if tubeless might be possible.

To me, 60 looks like it might doable. I compared a 55 tire that I had on hand. 65 seems hard to believe. The Hurricane Mr. Coffee mentioned is available in 57.

This is one area that Gazelle is a little slow to move on. Their new Eclipse finally has a wider tire. Meanwhile the Vado has been available in a 2.3 for years. (Pathfinder Sport Reflect, 650Bx2.3)

Please update on your decision! Might follow suit.

 

[AvalancheRun]

Those are both good tires, but for a 25kg bike like the Ultimate I'd argue they aren't very stout.

You can get the Schwalbe Hurricane in the same tire size and a lot of folks, myself included, find it to be a fine e-bike tire.

Maximum load on the JW seems higher. Just curious how this is determined. I never would have considered it!

 

[Stefan Mikes]

they told me that up to 65 mm is within limits

It is within frame clearance limits. Nothing to do with the wheel rim width.

Saw that someone online went with a smaller wheel size to make a wider tire fit their Ultimate.

And with wider rims

 

[Stefan Mikes]

As you @pinkfloydhomer seem to be determined to make the change of tyres to bigger and more aggressive ones, here is what I can say:

• Schwalbe Johnny Watts 365 in size 60-622 might be within the rim tolerance (you say the size is within the frame clearance, and I have to take it)
• Please select DD Raceguard, the folding tyre (the DD Greenguard is a wired tyre). Folding tyres are usually more supple, and easier to install on the rim.

Both the tyre tread and the rubber properties of the 365 are ideal for the Danish climate all year long. Specifically, the tyre behaves perfectly at temperatures below 10 C and in the wet conditions. The tyre allows riding it at low inflation pressure, making the rides comfortable in a more rough terrain.

Just try them.

Johnny Watts 365 (65-584) as ridden in the forest in light snow conditions (it is not what you usually experience in Denmark!) The major difference is these tyres have been used on an e-MTB with the rims made exactly for that size. See the ideal tyre profile here: the side walls are almost on the vertical relative to the rim!

The e-bike I'm talking about can be seen in the background, the same ride.

 

[ava1ar]

I am running 50mm Schwalbe 365 on my c380+ (2021). This is the widest Gazelle frame can accept (clearance is few mm in some places for reap wheel), but it works great! Not sure if 2023/2024 Gazelle can accept wider options, but older gen for sure can't.

 

[pinkfloydhomer]

It is within frame clearance limits. Nothing to do with the wheel rim width.

I asked the manufacturer which tires I could fit on the bike as it stands, they told me. Why would they tell me a size that wouldnt fit on the wheel rim?

I've never had any trouble going from 23 to 35 on a roadbike, why would this be a problem?

 

[pinkfloydhomer]

As you @pinkfloydhomer seem to be determined to make the change of tyres to bigger and more aggressive ones, here is what I can say:

• Schwalbe Johnny Watts 365 in size 60-622 might be within the rim tolerance (you say the size is within the frame clearance, and I have to take it)
• Please select DD Raceguard, the folding tyre (the DD Greenguard is a wired tyre). Folding tyres are usually more supple, and easier to install on the rim.

I wouldn't say I'm determined to have wider tires, I just want tires more suitable for my use than the current Energizer Plus tires. Even if I can't fit wider than 50, I would still like something better suited for touring with a mix of pavement and forest trails.

JW365 seems like a good bet, I also mentioned it in the first post. I am not sure if I need it or if, say, Al Grounder or Marathon e-plus would be more suitable.

 

[linklemming]

I asked the manufacturer which tires I could fit on the bike as it stands, they told me. Why would they tell me a size that wouldnt fit on the wheel rim?

I've never had any trouble going from 23 to 35 on a roadbike, why would this be a problem?

I would trust the manufacturer over anything Stefan states.

See the linked tire/rim width chart.

https://www.schwalbetires.com/media/16/8f/9b/1654668257/reifen-felgenkombination-etrto-22-en-2.pdf

The only question is what is your internal rim width. You could measure the outside rim width and subtract 5mm (typical difference between inside and outside rim width).

A review of your bike on this site states it has 19mm outer rim width which I think is a typo, I cant find any mention of actual rim width anywhere else

There are changes in the profile of the tire which might work better or worse depending on the actual tire and your riding preferences.

 

[keithj69]

When I went from 2.4 super moto-x to the 2.6 Johnny Watts on my CC, I had an issue with the location of the front fender (too low compared to the rear fender) and the knobs on the JW would rub on the front fender some. I tried to adjust the wire supports on the front fender all I could, but each time the other side would rub. The rear fenders no problems what so ever. I fixed the front fender by switching to a SKS Mudrocker fender.
Your frame may be able to handle the tires, but maybe, the fenders will sing a new song to you after switching to something a bit knobbier.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Marathon e-plus

Had them and hated them. They are very stiff, and the tread behaves erratically on some surfaces (such as a path made of paving blocks). No experience with AI Grounders.

In my experience, JW 365 could be the best choice for you if you could fit them inside the mudguards. My Vado 6.0, which is of a similar weight to your Gazelle came with 50 mm tyres and Specialized was later fitting 47 mm tyres to Gen 1 Vados to increase the mudguard clearance. My choice of Pathfinder Pro 47-622 was dictated by my 21700 km experience of riding the big Vado, and boy, I do not avoid riding rough terrain at all! (I am a gravel cyclist by heart, and "gravel cycling" in Poland mostly means riding in the forest).

You do not need to listen to my advice though.

These are people I'm riding with We had a phenomenal 104.5 km ride in less than 4 hours in the huge Bolimów Forest I rather know this and that about the gear...

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I would trust the manufacturer over anything Stefan states.

See the linked tire/rim width chart.

https://www.schwalbetires.com/media/16/8f/9b/1654668257/reifen-felgenkombination-etrto-22-en-2.pdf

I would rather trust the rim manufacturer (DT Swiss) than a tyre manufacturer (Schwalbe).

If Gazelle chose 25 mm inner width rims, going above 50 mm tyre with is a no-go. It requires a 30 mm inner width rim to go wider. In very rare situations, 27 mm rims are installed (it is my Vado's front wheel).

Source: DT Swiss

 

[pinkfloydhomer]

I would rather trust the rim manufacturer (DT Swiss) than a tyre manufacturer (Schwalbe).

View attachment 175347
If Gazelle chose 25 mm inner width rims, going above 50 mm tyre with is a no-go. It requires a 30 mm inner width rim to go wider. In very rare situations, 27 mm rims are installed (it is my Vado's front wheel).

Source: DT Swiss

First of all, it's not a dt swiss rim, secondly, if I look at the above table, 60 mm should be fine.