Specialized Vado 5.0 IGH Cadence Survey

[opimax]

I thought it was the other way around, smaller rear gear = more speed and less torque which is used for hills

 

[mschwett]

Going from a 24T down to a slightly smaller cog at the back means your get slightly more power transferred to the wheel - so you should find hills a bit easier (maybe 8-10%??)

that’s backwards - a smaller cog in the rear means the rear wheel turns more times for each turn of the pedals, which requires more torque at the pedals, not less! to make it easier to ride uphill you want a bigger cog at the back and/or a smaller cog at the front.

 

[Tim C]

I thought it was the other way around, smaller rear gear = more speed and less torque which is used for hills

Yep - a brain fart on my side. You guys are right. I haven't noticed any difference but the logic would indicate there should be

 

[Tim C]

that’s backwards - a smaller cog in the rear means the rear wheel turns more times for each turn of the pedals, which requires more torque at the pedals, not less! to make it easier to ride uphill you want a bigger cog at the back and/or a smaller cog at the front.

Yep - a brain fart on my side. You guys are right. I haven't noticed any difference but the logic would indicate there should be

 

[fatefree]

So here's my update, my previous cadence was around 100 to hit 25mph at slowest gear (50rpm according to enviolo). I swapped out my rear cog with the 22t I put in the thread earlier, and they installed and calibrated it. To my surprise the bike rode worse, 100 cadence only got me about 21 mph and the gear settings didnt seem to change anything. I assumed they set it to manual mode or something but when I checked the app it was set to auto and 50 rpm as before. So for the hell of it I calibrated again while I was riding it, and it instantly snapped to what I was hoping for. I can now hit about 29 at 100 cadence and cruise comfortably in the 80s. I do wonder if some of the variance on the bikes in this thread were due to bad or just different calibrations. Anyhoo the cog really made a difference, I no longer feel like I wish I had slower gears.

 

[Nonlinear]

So here's my update, my previous cadence was around 100 to hit 25mph at slowest gear (50rpm according to enviolo). I swapped out my rear cog with the 22t I put in the thread earlier, and they installed and calibrated it. To my surprise the bike rode worse, 100 cadence only got me about 21 mph and the gear settings didnt seem to change anything. I assumed they set it to manual mode or something but when I checked the app it was set to auto and 50 rpm as before. So for the hell of it I calibrated again while I was riding it, and it instantly snapped to what I was hoping for. I can now hit about 29 at 100 cadence and cruise comfortably in the 80s. I do wonder if some of the variance on the bikes in this thread were due to bad or just different calibrations. Anyhoo the cog really made a difference, I no longer feel like I wish I had slower gears.

Have you noticed any changes when climbing steep hills? I'm considering changing my rear cog as well, but I live in an area with massive hills and am concerned it may affect hill climbing ability.

 

[fatefree]

Have you noticed any changes when climbing steep hills? I'm considering changing my rear cog as well, but I live in an area with massive hills and am concerned it may affect hill climbing ability.

I don't really have any hills to compare it on but I imagine I could just change the gear away from the Slowest setting if I needed to. Before this cog I have never changed it from that setting.

 

[leifg]

I swapped to a 22T as well and think it's great, but I'm essentially on flats. I too saw different calibration behavior along the way, but for me, reducing the belt tension after calibrating at higher tension gave me an even wider gear range (this was with the 24T when I was messing around). I was able to hit 28mph in the low 80s doing this...but then had hub slippage. So beware with tension changes after calibration. Calibration w/o making subsequent tension settings has been consistent for me.

I then swapped to 22T, and calibrated with belt at ~35lbs. This results in ~55-85rpm from slowest to fastest (mastermind doesn't know i swapped to 22T).

...so if you are swapping to 22T yourself, you may get a "feature" or "breakage" of lower cadences if mastermind isn't reprogrammed depending on your goals. (Feature for me!)

 

[UrgentDelay]

Why make a survey, this just needs to be calculated - see attachment

 

[Fredman]

Why make a survey, this just needs to be calculated

For me the practically of people's experiences is way more interesting than a bunch of numbers....although it helps.

 

[leifg]

The table is theoretical...in reality some enviolo automatiqs have different performance. Hence the survey. Enviolo is CVT and high/low limits are subject to calibration. For me, belt tension had a huge impact on cadence because of apparent binding within or adjacent to hub that prevented enviolo from using the full 380%. All is good now. If cadence is higher than expected at max speed, check belt tension and adjust it down towards minimum spec. Suspect this is also causing issues with manual shifting IGH that are hard to turn.

Why make a survey, this just needs to be calculated - see attachment

 

[UrgentDelay]

The table is theoretical...in reality some enviolo automatiqs have different performance. Hence the survey. Enviolo is CVT and high/low limits are subject to calibration. For me, belt tension had a huge impact on cadence because of apparent binding within or adjacent to hub that prevented enviolo from using the full 380%. All is good now. If cadence is higher than expected at max speed, check belt tension and adjust it down towards minimum spec. Suspect this is also causing issues with manual shifting IGH that are hard to turn.

So my table represents what it should look like if everything worked correctly and can be used as a reference point.

 

[Bavi]

These Enviolo automatiq hubs are a bit of an unknown quantity for me. I find mine sometimes (but not always) gives a strange sensation when peddling, it can feel like the gearing is varying slightly between easier and harder every couple of pedal crank revolutions, almost like I'm getting pulses of assistance from the motor. The thing is.... it can do this even with assistance turned off!!!!

When I went to calibrate the hub the Enviolo app I found there was a firmware updated available, which I thought might improve things. After installing it and calibrating the hub, the pulsing sensation seems slightly more pronounced, although it might just be because I'm focussing on it now. I also tried using the Gates Carbon Drive app to assess the belt tension by analysing the sound frequency when the belt is "twanged". The trouble was that the frequency varied enormously between "twangs" even though I tried to do it consistently so I've left the tension alone for the moment as it could just be down to my "twanging" technique!

Generally though, I really like the smooth and silent transmission and am glad I got it, if I could just manage to do away withe the minor niggle I mentioned above it would be perfect for me.

Any suggestions on how to address this phenomena would be gratefully received!

UPDATE!
A couple of things occurred to me after posting that load of old b*ll*x above.
1. Could it be that the rear wheel/hub/frame aren't aligned somehow? (I don't know if that is even possibly a thing)

Nothing LOOKS to be wrong or out of true but I just don't know!

2. Why didn't I just try calibrating the hub again?

I ran the calibration form the app again, this time with the wheel off the ground levered using the side stand and turning the pedal cranks by hand, rather than just riding the bike like I did the first time.
I also noticed there was a setting in the app to adjust the start up gearing, so I broke my own rule and made a second change... nudging the slider down a couple of positions.

Did a quick 6 mile trip to the shops (without assistance) and the hub seemed to be behaving itself + it felt a lot less like I was riding through treacle... more of my power seemed to be going to driving me forward rather than being absorbed by the hub. Only a short test, but it seems to have been a noticeable improvement... I guess time will tell

 

[leifg]

Was the strange sensation like a vibration in the pedals in low effort conditions? If so, that was the catalyst for me checking tension, alignment and ultimately changing hub gear to 22T (2023 models come with 22T, 2022 comes with 24T). Good news is all is resolved! Cadence range is great and zero vibrations. I had tweaked the starting gear setting like you did -- out of box gear was too low for me as well.

Thread is here https://forums.electricbikereview.c...tomatic-vibrations-cadence-22t-tension.53873/

 

[Bavi]

Cool, thanks for the link, that's very interesting, I think I've experienced the vibrations a couple of times as well, they only last a second or two and didn't bother me too much. I'm inclined to try reducing the belt tension by turning all of the adjustment screws the same amount (say something like 2 full turns) and see what difference it makes. Then I can easily return things to their original settings if I hit any snags.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

1. Could it be that the rear wheel/hub/frame aren't aligned somehow? (I don't know if that is even possibly a thing)

It is impossible with thru-axles.

 

[leifg]

It is impossible with thru-axles.

Incorrect -- the frame has additional features to move hub forward & back on 5.0 IGH (this is added mechanism to adjust belt tension), and since each side can be moved independently there can indeed be an alignment issue as @Bavi mentioned. I have tried and have not found it to be a factor in my case since I was tracking alignment, but it's worth measuring. @Bavi, I would try half turns to start for tension adjustments, I think two full turns is too much. (There is a cliff where tension falls off). Also check rear gear to see if 22T or 24T..that appeared to be a huge factor for me, but there are a lot of variables so maybe not.

 

[Bavi]

Superb, thank you so much. I agree, your idea for making smaller incremental adjustments is much more sensible... that will be my next experiment

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I stand corrected @leifg, thank you!

 

[leifg]

Superb, thank you so much. I agree, your idea for making smaller incremental adjustments is much more sensible... that will be my next experiment

I forgot to mention that I tried the Gates Carbon Drive app to check belt tension (in app store). You pluck the belt like a guitar string and app measures frequency with phone mic. But it was too noisy where I was and I often got incorrect reading. Ultimately I purchased "Gates 91107 Krikit" (search Amazon, $30 usd) and that proved to be much more reliable.