kahn
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- northWET washington
That reminds me of the folks who worn pink and yellow bike shorts as if they might never come in contact with anything DIRTY!
Specialized Turbo Vado SL: An Incredible E-Bike (User Club)
- Thread starter Stefan Mikes
- Start date
Stefan Mikes
Gravel e-biker
- Region
- Europe
- City
- Mazovia, PL
My brother taught me carrying a pair of cotton working-gloves in my car. Comes handy during unloading/loading my Vado, and with chores like field chain maintenance.
Stefan,I had never believed in the whole Specialized SL thing until I could ride an SL myself. My bad legs can deliver 70-80 W on average (with short burst of far more if I have to). I have got used to the "full power" modern e-bikes, the 24 kg (or heavier), mid-motor, and integrated removable battery machines that I can (yes) lift upstairs but never raise any of them to the shoulder level. Yes, full power e-bikes can travel fast (especially S-Pedelecs or derestricted ones), can climb very steep hills too but it is hardly possible to pedal them unassisted or past the limiter. And they eat the battery at the rate that forces me to carry a spare for any long (read: 80 km or above) trip. The Warsaw Specialized Brand Store signed a rental agreement with me on last Saturday, charged the rental fee (28 EUR or 34 US$ equivalent), and let me ride a Vado SL 4.0 non-EQ size L for a day.
Sizing
Vado SL Step-Over is a tall bike. My own "standover height" is 78 cm (30.7"). With the M frame, I could straddle the top tube with safe clearance but I was actually touching it with my private parts for size L. I'd love the reach of the size M; I was leaning over the handlebars a little too much to my liking but, interestingly, too large frame didn't compromise ride safety or comfort for me. I was genuinely surprised with that! (The store had the non-EQ size L Vado SL as the only available demo option for Saturday so I had to take it or leave it; the size M 4.0 EQ e-bike was on display for sale).
Motor Noise
As I hear some complaints of SL e-bikes related to the SL 1.1 motor noise, here is my observation:
I think the owners of Vado SL or Creo are simply unaware how quiet these motors are compared to other makes.
- The SL 1.1 motor is indeed audible. In default Eco mode, the noise is very soft, chirpy. The more support is provided, the louder the motor gets but it never becomes annoying.
- By comparison, the Specialized 1.2e, 1.2, and 1.2s motors are virtually silent except 100% Turbo mode under very high load; still, that noise is barely audible. Heavily loaded 1.2 motors just want to whisper to you "Hey... I'm here!" I have never tried the 1.3 motor but it is reportedly barely louder under loading.
- SyncDrive Pro (Yamaha PW-X2) is noisy, with constant whining, still that noise is manageable.
Riding Unassisted
Nothing different to any 15 kg (33 lb) traditional bike. No "motor drag". I would be able to pedal the Vado SL easily in flat battery situation without suffering (albeit rather slowly). I'm sure any healthy cyclist could ride the SL with the assistance OFF as the primary riding mode on flats and in absence of headwind. Vado SL feels a traditional bike in any aspect!
Riding Assisted
ECO mode feels the most logical assistance level to ride Vado SL, especially for the European 25 km/h version. It was just enough for me to feel a 25-yo again riding a traditional bike (I have never been a strong person). The feeling how lightweight the SL is, is incredible. The pedalling experience is so natural that you never even think you are on e-bike! There is excellent acceleration property: just push pedals stronger and you start moving fast! The SL was the first e-bike I could ride where staying in Eco mode on the flat felt fantastic, without the need of even thinking of going for more support. Also, I could use the derailleur sparingly. In full power heavier e-bikes, I utilize the derailleur in wide range from low gears to start the ride to high gears to move fast. Vado SL moves so easily from the cold start that I only used the derailleur to maintain my favourite cadence but not to make the cold start easier, for one.
Sport mode: Ideal to ride soft inclines, and to counter moderate headwind. I hardly ever used the Sport mode for the demo ride.
Turbo mode: Very useful! In urban environment, it allows climbing obstacles such us overpass without even increasing your heart-rate. I found the Turbo mode useful in countering storm headwind (very very strong!) I experienced on my route. Not sure how good the SL would be in real hilly environment though.
Full-power e-bikes give the edge when you really need tons of power; the SL is decidedly not as powerful. It is a very natural bike instead, helping you ride under circumstances that would turn your trip into nightmare on a traditional bike.
Riding past the speed limiter
That was a hilarious experience! If that's the 25 km/h limiter then you hit the speed limit very quickly. What happens next? Just pedal and ride faster on your leg power! On a full power e-bike, riding past the speed limiter means "hitting the wall". It is not so with Vado SL. Yes, you can feel it is harder to pedal (because you have lost good watts that had assisted you) but it is just like riding a traditional bike! Nothing different!
Anecdote: I was riding leisurely on a good straight asphalt road. Suddenly, a pack of three beautiful female roadies took me over at high speed. I instantly switched the Turbo mode on and started chasing the girls. What an experience! I broke past 25 km/h and pedalled unassisted with the maximum leg power burst I could manage. Strava tells me I reached 38 km/h (unassisted!) I couldn't catch up with the girls but got so close they must have heard my "WOOOOW! You're amazing, girls!" exclamation before I gave up
Battery consumption
The bike appears to not be eating the battery charge at all!Now I can believe Specialized marketing claim you could make 100 miles on a single charge (if no upwind and flat terrain). As long as I and friend rode slowly and leisurely, the 7th battery status bar with which I started the Eco mode ride didn't want to disappear for long kilometres. Of course, Sport and especially Turbo mode eat more but... I used 3 bars (of 10) for a 41 km trip, part of which was ridden in Turbo mode for emergency reasons.
Handling, comfort, brakes, gearing, equipment
Vado SL must have been designed by some geniuses. Almost every aspect of the e-bike is extremely well thought. Handling of the bike on the ride is just fantastic.
Despite of lack of any suspension on Vado SL, the e-bike is surprisingly comfortable even on surfaces far from ideal. If I bought an SL, I would probably only did these upgrades:
- Rear-view mirror
- TCD display, or a smartphone handlebar mount
- Pedals of my choice
Better lighting.(that claim proved to be wrong)Did you hear me saying: "suspension stem", "suspension seatpost", "better grips", "better saddle" or "better tyres"? No. I could live with stock components for a longer while. I especially liked the Specialized stock tyres, and even the saddle was not that bad!
Update (September 4th, 2021): I was carried off with my demo ride. In fact, Vado SL is a stiff e-bike that offers a little of compliance. When I actually bought the e-bike, I soon needed to upgrade it with RedShift ShockStop suspension stem and seatpost. I also replaced the stock tyres with Schwalbe Smart Sam 37-622.
Brakes: Reliable, performing excellently in torrential-like rain!
Gearing: Certainly ideal for flats. (Cannot say anything for riding an SL in really hilly conditions).
Lighting of Vado SL is laughable and can only serve as daily lights. The weakest point of that otherwise excellent e-bike.
EQ vs non-EQ. Step-Over vs. Step-Through
For the Poland's condition, the EQ version is the must, although one could think of fitting MTB mudguards, and the rear rack is not really necessary for fitness rides (because Vado SL is indeed a fitness e-bike). I would just feel better with proper fenders and a rack. If one plans no swapping the seat-post for a suspension one, the tail-light placement under the saddle in non-EQ is smart, and the tail-light of the non-EQ is indeed not bad!
The exciting news is the Step-Through Vado SL shall appear in our market sometime in August. I'm strongly interested in buying Vado SL 4.0 EQ ST size M, White Sage colour!
View attachment 90242
You can actually put the SL on your shoulder and carry it upstairs!
Battery charging
The only downside of the SL is the fact you have to charge the battery on the bike. Making it awkward for touring (staying in hotels).
Since you said you were "strongly interested in buying Vado SL 4.0 EQ ST size M, White Sage colour!" I thought I would post a comment since 3 days ago I had delivered to me a Vado Sl 4.0 EQ size M! Color, White Sage! I've taken two rides on it so I thought I would post a preliminary review. I like it. A lot. I'm 73, 5'8" ( ok, now after 4 minor back surgeries over 35 years I'm 5' 7 1/2"), and I weigh 160, hoping to get back down to 155. I had been riding a 20 year old Cannondale H-400 3x8 hybrid so the Vado feels a lot like my analogue bike. I am strictly a recreational, fair weather rider and the bike is for a vacation home in the Hudson Valley in NY so I'm never going to put a lot of miles on it. I only ride on paved country roads. I thought I wanted the Como SL and since March 2021 I had been waiting for them to come in to my local Specialized dealer. But he wasn't getting any bikes. Since I'm not very handy the thought of a bike with an internal gear hub was very appealing. Finally at the end of February I searched on the Specialized website and found a dealer within driving distance that had the Como SL and took it for a test ride. Suffice it to say I was disappointed as the bike felt heavy and was hard to shift. I've posted elsewhere on this site more about that. this past summer I had test ridden the Vado Sl at my local dealer and really liked it but was concerned about the maintenance given the added stress the motor might pose for the chain etc. The day after I tested the Como SL I found another dealer within driving distance who had a Vado Sl Eq step through. I liked the idea of a step through even though I can still swing my leg over the saddle. Just thought I would get ready for the future, and, in fact I had been riding my wife's step-through Cannondale hybrid in Central Park in NYC and found it very comfortable.
Where I am in the Hudson Valley we have rolling hills. My typical ride is 14 - 18 miles and I was finding although I could still get up the hills I was in my lowest gear and felt the need to stop and catch my break. The Vado Sl feels very much like my analogue bike and is only 5 lbs heavier. It handles great and the boost from the motor is just the right amount for me to feel that I am still getting a workout. My first ride two days ago was 14 miles. I decided to use the motor sparingly and not at all on the flats. Just to get me to the top of the hills ( which don't exceed 8% grade and are relatively short). On that ride I used 22% of the battery which implies a range of 67 miles. The next day I rode 18 miles and used the assist in sport and turbo probably more than I needed to. There was a good deal of wind as well. For that ride I used 38% of the battery which implies a range of 47 miles. I am unlikely to ride more than 25 miles so I don't think range will ever be an issue for me. On the second ride I realized that I was bypassing 3 or 4 spots where I normally had to take a break and get off of my analogue bike. With the assist I just kept going.
Noise: There has been a lot of talk online about the whiny noise of the SL motor. I would say that I am someone who is very sensitive to annoying noises. I did not find the noise of the motor annoying. In fact, it was somewhat comforting because it reminded me that the motor was doing its job. And the noise when coasting, which I would characterize as similar to the sound of cicadas was kind of pleasant. And if you don't want the noise just keep pedaling!
Step through: Certainly easier to get on. A bit tricky to get off. But as someone who learned as a child to get on a bike by standing on one pedal and swinging one's leg over I appreciate the step through especially when stopped before crossing a couple of busy two lane roads. I don't get off of the bike, just add some motor support and am able to move quickly across the road.
Gearing: The step through has 11 gears as opposed to the original Vado Sl with 10. It is more than sufficient. I was surprised at how low the lowest gears were, and, in fact, I never needed to go into the lowest gear or the highest gear. Going downhill I got to 31 mph and on the flat in turbo got to 26 mph. If I were in better shape I think I could have gotten to 28 mph.
EQ vs non-EQ: I wanted to use my own saddle so didn't want to have to deal with the light built into the non EQ saddle. And I wanted a rack. The fenders I don't really need, and in fact I had the dealer remove the extension to the fender in the front which people have reported causing twigs etc to get stuck.
TCD-W : I got it as a $90 add on and it is more than sufficient for my needs. For example I thought my normal cadence was about 60 per minute, but found using the TCD that it was actually in the 70 -75 range even without the motor. And by seeing the cadence in real time it reminds me when it drops below 70 to shift to a lower gear. More info on the TCD than I am likely to need and I'm glad I have it.
I can't finish without giving a shout out to my dealer, Bikeway in Wappingers Falls NY, and in particular, George who sold me the bike and Doug the store manager who delivered it. I put a deposit down at the end of February which they held until I was ready to have it delivered in April. In fact, the bike I bought was the Raspberry color as they didn't have the White Sage. Their inventory showed they had one in another store but when George called over it had just been sold and they didn't have any other. Nothing wrong with raspberry. An hour later I got a text that the person ( ok, a woman) who bought the white sage preferred the raspberry color and would I like to switch. So, serendipity and an win/win. I love the color. When Doug delivered the bike there was a brief problem pairing it with mission control until he remembered that he had replaced the TCU as he saw something about the one on the bike that didn't seem quite right so switched it out and it had a different set of numbers to pair to. To me that says something about attention to detail. In addition when I asked about future firmware updates Doug said he could come to me with his computer and do it at my home. I'm about a 45 minute drive from their shop. They also have a mobile service van that will come to your home to do routine maintenance or pick up a bike if it needs to go back to the shop. Finally, at the end of February the bike was listed on the Specialized site at $4000 and that was the price I saw from any dealer selling it. Bikeway gave me a $250 discount so I paid $3750 still at a time when bikes are hard to find.
Sorry for the long post but a few other comments. When I told a friend and his wife I had gotten a step-through his wife said, "You mean a girls bike." I guess all I can say is that I'm man enough to ride a "girls" bike with the added benefit that it is less likely to be stolen. Who wants to steal a "girls"bike. Anyway if a guy like Stefan, who can hold his bike over his head in one hand, is lusting after a step through it must be ok. Now I just want to see whether he can hold a step-through over his head. That would be a true symbol of manliness.
Attached a photo of my bike.
Marty
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Stefan Mikes
Gravel e-biker
- Region
- Europe
- City
- Mazovia, PL
Thank you very much for an excellent write-up, Marty! Your observations are so similar to mine! Allow me several remarks:
When the SL1.1 motor does not deliver any assistance, it becomes silent. The "sound of cicadas" comes from the rear-hub freewheel. As you live in the United States, it is hard for you to ride past the speed limiter. Here, with the speed restricted to 25 km/h, the motor silence mostly means you ride faster than the speed restriction (just on your own leg power). I often forget pushing a button to derestrict my Vado SL. If I can feel my thighs stiffer and there is no noise whatsoever, it means I'm pedalling alone (without the motor assistance).
I asked two different riding buddies of mine how they felt about the SL1.1 motor noise as we are riding side by side. Each of my mates said the motor noise was barely audible for them. One of them specifically remarked the SL motor noise felt pleasant to him, and he said himself he liked the fact the motor indicated it was working that way.
Such thinking is obsolete nowadays. Many girls ride male bikes (road or gravel, for instance), and many men choose ST or Low-Step for practical reasons. (Very few females ride in long skirts nowadays, for one). While I have to accept the fact my SL is high-step (there was no other option at the time I was buying it), I am so happy riding my big Vado in ST! On my off-road Vado ride of yesterday, I had to stop for many times. How convenient it was to get on and off the ST! Besides, I dismount my ST the same way I mount it. Not complicated if you keep your brake lever depressed for safety and use the handlebar as a support.
It's lovely!
Never say that! The appetite may grow the more you ride!
Richard Stallard
Active Member
- Region
- Australia
Did everyone get an email from Specialized about updates to Turbo e-bikes?
The email is very vague about the effect of the update for TCU-equipped models.
Has anyone done the update and noticed any differences, good or bad?
The email is very vague about the effect of the update for TCU-equipped models.
Has anyone done the update and noticed any differences, good or bad?
Stefan Mikes
Gravel e-biker
- Region
- Europe
- City
- Mazovia, PL
No idea. I didn't get any e-mail, and my Vado SL needs no updates. That is, "Display" needs an update but what does "Display" actually mean? The TCU or TCD?
I got the email. If you watch the video it is clear they are referring to the Mastermind TCU that now comes with the 2022 Vado Sl 5.0 and the standard i.e. non SL new bikes. One hopes they will make this TCU available for older bikes so one can update firmware over the air, and most importantly get the added benefit of theft protection via a personal pin.
Regarding a "girls" bike, my friends were mostly just pushing my buttons for a bit of fun, but your point is well taken. Interestingly Specialize characterizes the grips as "Body Geometry Women's Contour." Are men's hands so different from women's? Ironically, I noticed a bit of numbness in my fingertips of my left hand towards the end of each ride which I don't experience with the more standard grips on my "twist shift" Cannondale. Am I being punished for buying a step through! Ha, Ha.
Yes, cultural norms have changed and continue to. Back in the late 1970's I was running a kindergarten intervention program for children at risk of reading failure. I mentioned that my wife was a doctor and one of the boys in the group said, "girls can't be doctors." Just shows how early one's biases can be established.
rochrunner
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Rochester Hills MI
What you don't see in that photo are the thin wires that are suspending the bike from the tree that he is standing under.
On my regular Vado 4.0, the only noise comment that I got was about the rear hub freewheel when not pedaling, but am not sure if the SL is louder. My wife's Trek is quiet in this regard. I might someday splurge on a replacement wheelset and will be more selective about the hub. I suspect that some of this is due to requiring heavier-duty pawls or other such mechanism due to the high torque of an e-bike.
By the way (maybe Stefan knows this), if you get a range extender, where does it mount? Both the bottle cage mounting points that I see are farther away from the plug-in than on a non-step-thru frame. Do they make an extra long cable?
Richard Stallard
Active Member
- Region
- Australia
Richard could be right. Here are the instructions that came with the email ( I'm not at my home where my bike is to see if there really is an update for the older TCU) but anyone can give it a try and report back:
Get the Update |
|
fatshark
Active Member
- Region
- United Kingdom
- City
- The Howling Wildernes
My TCU display (Vado SL 5.0 EQ) was updated today. All troublefree. I now appear to have a PIN/lock option which I didn't have before (or had never seen?). I think the other three changes are; 1) an indicator on the screen that a ride is being recorded, 2) an indication of the gear you're in if you have one of the fancy SRAM changers (doesn't apply to me) and 3) something to do with microtuning.
Did your bike come with the Mastermind TCU or the older TCU that just shows battery level? And are the indicators and pin function on mission control so you would need to ride with your phone?
Stefan Mikes
Gravel e-biker
- Region
- Europe
- City
- Mazovia, PL
The Specialized Zee Cage II (LEFT) and a rubber band come together with the Range Extender. The cage has to be installed to the cage mounting points on the seat tube. The 220 mm Road SL Cable is to be bought separately. Everything fits as good as a dream!
Top: Left view; Bottom: Right view.
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fatshark
Active Member
- Region
- United Kingdom
- City
- The Howling Wildernes
Mastermind TCU (it's a 2022 model Vado SL 5.0) ... both the indicator and PIN function display on the TCU screen.
Stefan Mikes
Gravel e-biker
- Region
- Europe
- City
- Mazovia, PL
I'm sure it is doable to fit the 220 mm Road RE cable for the ST. It is clear to me that the distance from the top tube is sufficient. Note how rearwards the cage mounting points are! The cage will hold the top of the RE in the rearwards direction. A notch in the RE makes the thing resting immovable in the cage. The cable would have a short distance to the charging socket.
rochrunner
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Rochester Hills MI
It still looks like it would take a longer cable, plus it would not route as cleanly due to the curve it would have to take. But maybe we should just wait and see if someone with a ST will get one and report back.
Stefan Mikes
Gravel e-biker
- Region
- Europe
- City
- Mazovia, PL
Doug... I don't think Specialized could made that grave design mistake
SL is a very well organized system.160 mm MTB RE Cable:
- Levo SL
- Kenevo SL
- Creo
- Vado SL
- Como SL
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