Specialized Turbo Vado SL: An Incredible E-Bike (User Club)

[Stefan Mikes]

Guys!
Let me tell you how all that looks like with a full power, 90 Nm/520 W Specialized motor and mountain-wise gearing (38-46T). You are on a very steep & long climb, and you have discovered you are in the granny gear and 100% Turbo. You crazily spin the crank and are feeling like a toddler on a kid bike. Your mouth gets dry, and your hands get numb. Still, you are riding but wish you were never born

Now, fancy the battery gets flat and you need to stop to replace it

 

[Richard Stallard]

This has probably been discussed before, but one of the first changes I did to my Vado SL 4.0 EQ setup was to up the motor power limit in Eco and Sport modes to 100%. With the default settings of 35/35 and 60/60 the motor power is limited whenever the rider power exceeds 240 W, to 84 W in Eco and 144 W in Sport. My settings are 35/100 and 60/100, so the motor power will be based on 35% or 60% of rider input up to the motor’s 240 W maximum. As it is entirely possible for me to produce in excess of 240 W for short periods, I didn’t want the motor contribution to be limited at a time when extra power could be useful. Under moderate riding conditions, with rider power less than 240 W, the changes have no effect.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

This has probably been discussed before, but one of the first changes I did to my Vado SL 4.0 EQ setup was to up the motor power limit in Eco and Sport modes to 100%. With the default settings of 35/35 and 60/60 the motor power is limited whenever the rider power exceeds 240 W, to 84 W in Eco and 144 W in Sport. My settings are 35/100 and 60/100, so the motor power will be based on 35% or 60% of rider input up to the motor’s 240 W maximum. As it is entirely possible for me to produce in excess of 240 W for short periods, I didn’t want the motor contribution to be limited at a time when extra power could be useful. Under moderate riding conditions, with rider power less than 240 W, the changes have no effect.

That is indeed a fine strategy Richard. However, limiting the Max Motor Power ensures far longer battery range. So your solution is very good but not acceptable for long-range riders.

 

[Richard Stallard]

Stefan, I disagree. It only has an effect when the rider power is over 240 W which, for most people, would only occur for short periods such as overcoming a short but steep hill. Therefore, the effect on range is minImal.

If you can sustain over 240 W for considerable periods, you probably don’t need an e-bike.

Anyway, it is not compulsory - just a suggestion which I find useful.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Stefan, I disagree. It only has an effect when the rider power is over 240 W which, for most people, would only occur for short periods such as overcoming a short but steep hill. Therefore, the effect on range is minImal.

If you can sustain over 240 W for considerable periods, you probably don’t need an e-bike.

Anyway, it is not compulsory - just a suggestion which I find useful.

I cannot agree with you, Richard. Your assumption is everybody needs 240 W but it is not a fact.

• The 100% Assist means Rider's Leg Power * 1.8 (W, mechanical)
• To generate 240 W of mechanical response from the motor at 100% Assist, it is enough to pedal with the leg power of 240 / 1.8 = 133 W.
• If the motor assists you with 240 W (mechanical) at yours 133 W pedalling power in Turbo mode, the motor draws 240/0.8 = 300 W of electrical power from the battery (0.8 is the motor efficiency).
• If you set the Max Motor Power to 50%, you will get only 120 W of mechanical assistance, or 120/0.8 = 150 W battery power draw.
• To get 120 W at 100% Assist, it is enough to input 120/1.8 = 66.6 W into the crank.

In the scenario described above, limiting the Max Motor Power to 50% will give twice as much range with the Rider's Leg Power of 133 W or above.

I could present a proof based on my ride and measurements done with the BLEvo app. However, I'd rather like the user @Nubnub to chime in, as he is actually an expert in these matters.

 

[Richard Stallard]

I cannot agree with you, Richard. Your assumption is everybody needs 240 W but it is not a fact.

• The 100% Assist means Rider's Leg Power * 1.8 (W, mechanical)
• To generate 240 W of mechanical response from the motor at 100% Assist, it is enough to pedal with the leg power of 240 / 1.8 = 133 W.
• If the motor assists you with 240 W (mechanical) at yours 133 W pedalling power in Turbo mode, the motor draws 240/0.8 = 300 W of electrical power from the battery (0.8 is the motor efficiency).
• If you set the Max Motor Power to 50%, you will get only 120 W of mechanical assistance, or 120/0.8 = 150 W battery power draw.
• To get 120 W at 100% Assist, it is enough to input 120/1.8 = 66.6 W into the crank.

In the scenario described above, limiting the Max Motor Power to 50% will give twice as much range with the Rider's Leg Power of 133 W or above.

I could present a proof based on my ride and measurements done with the BLEvo app. However, I'd rather like the user @Nubnub to chime in, as he is actually an expert in these matters.

Stefan. I don’t understand your figures. Where do you get the 1.8 factor?

For SL bikes, everything I have read from Specialised says that the motor assist (mechanical) power is a maximum of 100% of the rider’s power in Turbo mode.

To explain my original post, with 35/35 setting for Eco, when the rider power reaches 240 W the motor will contribute 84 W (mechanical). If the rider produces more power, the motor will be limited to 84 W.

However, with 35/100 setting for Eco, the motor contribution will continue to increase with increasing rider power up to the legal limit (Europe and Australia) of 240 W provided of course the rider can generate the requisite power of 686 W (impossible, I think, for me). I did notice the other day my power output briefly touched 500 W in which has the motor would have added 175 W which was useful at the time.

 

[mschwett]

Stefan. I don’t understand your figures. Where do you get the 1.8 factor?

For SL bikes, everything I have read from Specialised says that the motor assist (mechanical) power is a maximum of 100% of the rider’s power in Turbo mode.
…

no; this has been discussed quite a bit here. the way specialized refers to it is a bit confusing. the assist factor (the first percentage in mission control) is the percentage of the full assist ratio which is available. the full assist ratio of the SL motors is 1.8x, or as specialized says, “1.8x you.” (they actually say 2x you)

so if the assist factor is set at 50%, and the rider outputs 100w, the bike will add an additional 100 x .5 x 1.8, or 90 additional watts, for a total of 190. at 100%, you provide 100w and the bike provides 190watts. to get the motor to provide 240w, you only need to provide around 135w.

this is all easily verified if you use mission control while riding - watch the “rider power” and “motor power” figures on the dashboard in the various modes.

charts and other explanation here: https://electricbikereview.com/foru...gs-work-creo-sl-maybe-all-the-sl-bikes.44992/

 

[rochrunner]

this is all easily verified if you use mission control while riding - watch the “rider power” and “motor power” figures on the dashboard in the various modes.

You can also display this on the Mastermind TCU using the custom screen feature.

 

[Richard Stallard]

no; this has been discussed quite a bit here. the way specialized refers to it is a bit confusing. the assist factor (the first percentage in mission control) is the percentage of the full assist ratio which is available. the full assist ratio of the SL motors is 1.8x, or as specialized says, “1.8x you.” (they actually say 2x you)

so if the assist factor is set at 50%, and the rider outputs 100w, the bike will add an additional 100 x .5 x 1.8, or 90 additional watts, for a total of 190. at 100%, you provide 100w and the bike provides 190watts. to get the motor to provide 240w, you only need to provide around 135w.

this is all easily verified if you use mission control while riding - watch the “rider power” and “motor power” figures on the dashboard in the various modes.

charts and other explanation here: https://electricbikereview.com/foru...gs-work-creo-sl-maybe-all-the-sl-bikes.44992/

Very strange! However, I am going to keep my 35/100, 60/100, 100/100 settings as they suit my current needs, and maximising range is not my priority.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

However, I am going to keep my 35/100, 60/100, 100/100 settings as they suit my current needs, and maximising range is not my priority.

Yes, this is perfectly legit!

 

[mjh5]

When I got my 4.0 Vado SL step-through a couple of weeks ago there were 3 black plastic objects included with the documentation. Two were identical and I figured out they are for protecting the brake pads from inadvertently closing when a wheel is taken off. Don't know what the 3rd object is or is for. Can anyone help? I've attached photos.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Don't know what the 3rd object is or is for.

I have never got or needed it.

 

[Cary W]

I had never believed in the whole Specialized SL thing until I could ride an SL myself. My bad legs can deliver 70-80 W on average (with short burst of far more if I have to). I have got used to the "full power" modern e-bikes, the 24 kg (or heavier), mid-motor, and integrated removable battery machines that I can (yes) lift upstairs but never raise any of them to the shoulder level. Yes, full power e-bikes can travel fast (especially S-Pedelecs or derestricted ones), can climb very steep hills too but it is hardly possible to pedal them unassisted or past the limiter. And they eat the battery at the rate that forces me to carry a spare for any long (read: 80 km or above) trip. The Warsaw Specialized Brand Store signed a rental agreement with me on last Saturday, charged the rental fee (28 EUR or 34 US$ equivalent), and let me ride a Vado SL 4.0 non-EQ size L for a day.

Sizing
Vado SL Step-Over is a tall bike. My own "standover height" is 78 cm (30.7"). With the M frame, I could straddle the top tube with safe clearance but I was actually touching it with my private parts for size L. I'd love the reach of the size M; I was leaning over the handlebars a little too much to my liking but, interestingly, too large frame didn't compromise ride safety or comfort for me. I was genuinely surprised with that! (The store had the non-EQ size L Vado SL as the only available demo option for Saturday so I had to take it or leave it; the size M 4.0 EQ e-bike was on display for sale).

Motor Noise
As I hear some complaints of SL e-bikes related to the SL 1.1 motor noise, here is my observation:

• The SL 1.1 motor is indeed audible. In default Eco mode, the noise is very soft, chirpy. The more support is provided, the louder the motor gets but it never becomes annoying.
• By comparison, the Specialized 1.2e, 1.2, and 1.2s motors are virtually silent except 100% Turbo mode under very high load; still, that noise is barely audible. Heavily loaded 1.2 motors just want to whisper to you "Hey... I'm here!" I have never tried the 1.3 motor but it is reportedly barely louder under loading.
• SyncDrive Pro (Yamaha PW-X2) is noisy, with constant whining, still that noise is manageable.

I think the owners of Vado SL or Creo are simply unaware how quiet these motors are compared to other makes.

Riding Unassisted
Nothing different to any 15 kg (33 lb) traditional bike. No "motor drag". I would be able to pedal the Vado SL easily in flat battery situation without suffering (albeit rather slowly). I'm sure any healthy cyclist could ride the SL with the assistance OFF as the primary riding mode on flats and in absence of headwind. Vado SL feels a traditional bike in any aspect!

Riding Assisted
ECO mode feels the most logical assistance level to ride Vado SL, especially for the European 25 km/h version. It was just enough for me to feel a 25-yo again riding a traditional bike (I have never been a strong person). The feeling how lightweight the SL is, is incredible. The pedalling experience is so natural that you never even think you are on e-bike! There is excellent acceleration property: just push pedals stronger and you start moving fast! The SL was the first e-bike I could ride where staying in Eco mode on the flat felt fantastic, without the need of even thinking of going for more support. Also, I could use the derailleur sparingly. In full power heavier e-bikes, I utilize the derailleur in wide range from low gears to start the ride to high gears to move fast. Vado SL moves so easily from the cold start that I only used the derailleur to maintain my favourite cadence but not to make the cold start easier, for one.

Sport mode: Ideal to ride soft inclines, and to counter moderate headwind. I hardly ever used the Sport mode for the demo ride.

Turbo mode: Very useful! In urban environment, it allows climbing obstacles such us overpass without even increasing your heart-rate. I found the Turbo mode useful in countering storm headwind (very very strong!) I experienced on my route. Not sure how good the SL would be in real hilly environment though.

Full-power e-bikes give the edge when you really need tons of power; the SL is decidedly not as powerful. It is a very natural bike instead, helping you ride under circumstances that would turn your trip into nightmare on a traditional bike.

Riding past the speed limiter
That was a hilarious experience! If that's the 25 km/h limiter then you hit the speed limit very quickly. What happens next? Just pedal and ride faster on your leg power! On a full power e-bike, riding past the speed limiter means "hitting the wall". It is not so with Vado SL. Yes, you can feel it is harder to pedal (because you have lost good watts that had assisted you) but it is just like riding a traditional bike! Nothing different!

Anecdote: I was riding leisurely on a good straight asphalt road. Suddenly, a pack of three beautiful female roadies took me over at high speed. I instantly switched the Turbo mode on and started chasing the girls. What an experience! I broke past 25 km/h and pedalled unassisted with the maximum leg power burst I could manage. Strava tells me I reached 38 km/h (unassisted!) I couldn't catch up with the girls but got so close they must have heard my "WOOOOW! You're amazing, girls!" exclamation before I gave up

Battery consumption
The bike appears to not be eating the battery charge at all! Now I can believe Specialized marketing claim you could make 100 miles on a single charge (if no upwind and flat terrain). As long as I and friend rode slowly and leisurely, the 7th battery status bar with which I started the Eco mode ride didn't want to disappear for long kilometres. Of course, Sport and especially Turbo mode eat more but... I used 3 bars (of 10) for a 41 km trip, part of which was ridden in Turbo mode for emergency reasons.

Handling, comfort, brakes, gearing, equipment
Vado SL must have been designed by some geniuses. Almost every aspect of the e-bike is extremely well thought. Handling of the bike on the ride is just fantastic.

Despite of lack of any suspension on Vado SL, the e-bike is surprisingly comfortable even on surfaces far from ideal. If I bought an SL, I would probably only did these upgrades:

• Rear-view mirror
• TCD display, or a smartphone handlebar mount
• Pedals of my choice
• Better lighting. (that claim proved to be wrong)

Did you hear me saying: "suspension stem", "suspension seatpost", "better grips", "better saddle" or "better tyres"? No. I could live with stock components for a longer while. I especially liked the Specialized stock tyres, and even the saddle was not that bad!

Update (September 4th, 2021): I was carried off with my demo ride. In fact, Vado SL is a stiff e-bike that offers a little of compliance. When I actually bought the e-bike, I soon needed to upgrade it with RedShift ShockStop suspension stem and seatpost. I also replaced the stock tyres with Schwalbe Smart Sam 37-622.

Brakes: Reliable, performing excellently in torrential-like rain!
Gearing: Certainly ideal for flats. (Cannot say anything for riding an SL in really hilly conditions).

Lighting of Vado SL is laughable and can only serve as daily lights. The weakest point of that otherwise excellent e-bike.

EQ vs non-EQ. Step-Over vs. Step-Through
For the Poland's condition, the EQ version is the must, although one could think of fitting MTB mudguards, and the rear rack is not really necessary for fitness rides (because Vado SL is indeed a fitness e-bike). I would just feel better with proper fenders and a rack. If one plans no swapping the seat-post for a suspension one, the tail-light placement under the saddle in non-EQ is smart, and the tail-light of the non-EQ is indeed not bad!

The exciting news is the Step-Through Vado SL shall appear in our market sometime in August. I'm strongly interested in buying Vado SL 4.0 EQ ST size M, White Sage colour!

View attachment 90242
You can actually put the SL on your shoulder and carry it upstairs!

Battery charging
The only downside of the SL is the fact you have to charge the battery on the bike. Making it awkward for touring (staying in hotels)

I'm sorry to dissapoint you but I ride my Vado SL every day and I have never been able to achieve such high speeds before The e-bike was like stuck at 25-26 km/h, with the maximum speed of 34 km/h. Now, I ride at 31 km/h easily, and my maximum speed (wind assisted) has been 46.8 km/h (the bike is derestricted). My Vado SL was a snail before...

Stefan — I’ve searched the internet and cannot find these tires. Other Panaracers, yes, but not the Bliss2. All I see are in the Gravel King line.

 

[fatshark]

When I got my 4.0 Vado SL step-through a couple of weeks ago there were 3 black plastic objects included with the documentation. Two were identical and I figured out they are for protecting the brake pads from inadvertently closing when a wheel is taken off. Don't know what the 3rd object is or is for. Can anyone help? I've attached photos.

The third object is a blanking plate to be slotted into the stem in place of the bracket that holds the TCU (or whatever it's called on the Vado SL 4). I've got a SL 5.0 and it came with the bracket, but has the TCU in the frame, so I removed the bracket and used this blanking plate.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Stefan — I’ve searched the internet and cannot find these tires. Other Panaracers, yes, but not the Bliss2. All I see are in the Gravel King line.

That's because you have searched the brand of Panaracer. I have never owned or used any Panaracers.
What I currently recommend is Specialized Pathfinder Pro 2Bliss 38-622.

 

[Cary W]

Well, DUH. There goes my reading comprehension (along with everything else).

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Cary, these expensive Pathfinders Pro are worth every cent!

 

[Cds36]

I've been very happy with the specialized sawtooth 700x42 actually prefer them over the pathfinders. They roll fast and have great grip on gravel

 

[rochrunner]

Sorry for the long post, but I’ve been waiting to get my SL 5.0 for literally two years, and then after I finally got it I had to wait a month before I was medically cleared to ride it. So after my first couple of rides I wanted to give my first impressions and analysis of what I’ve learned about it already. I also don’t want to sound like I’m dumping on the Vado 4.0 that I owned for those two years, but my feelings on that bike have always been colored by the “buyer’s remorse” that set in immediately when the SL bikes were announced a month or two after I’d bought it.

Before I got into e-bikes, my favorite go-to bike has been my 2013 Specialized Crosstrail “hybrid” (above) that has been 100% reliable with everything I’ve thrown at it. That includes riding across Missouri on the Katy Trail, riding from Pittsburgh to Washington D.C. on the Great Allegheny Passage/C&O Canal trails, and many miles on trails locally and around my state. So when I first started thinking about e-bikes, my mental picture was of my Crosstrail with a motor, and in fact I even considered doing a self-conversion with a Bfang kit or whatever. But the Vado had also caught my eye and a couple of times the bike shop people said that its geometry was “based on the Crosstrail”, so that’s what I bought in March 2020 just a couple weeks before the initial pandemic shutdown, and it carried through many outings that year and last year.

However, other than the riding position it was no Crosstrail, and a closer look at the specs reveals why, besides the considerable additional weight, that is the case. Mainly, comparing the geometry specs it’s apparent that the Vado has a noticeably longer wheelbase and also more trail. Both of these characteristics have the effect of “slowing down” the steering response, making the bike more stable in a straight line. That’s great for a commuter bike, especially operating at speed, but on a bike where you might want to change direction quickly – “flickability” if you will – it’s not the best design, and I certainly experienced that on a couple of occasions where I had to ride on rough trails trying to avoid roots and rocks, or through the loose stuff.

My first rides on the SL 5.0 have already made me forget all that stuff. This bike rides and handles like the bike that I was used to, while also giving me the added power for anything steep or for when I’m tired and just want to get home quickly. And I honestly don’t feel like it’s noticeably heavier than the Crosstrail, whereas I was always aware the the old Vado was a heavyweight. I’ve only had the SL on a trail section once as shown below. There’s some loose gravel at the bottom of this that was always a bit of a white-knuckler on the Vado, but I went right through it on the SL due to better tires and much better maneuverability.

Based on a discussion in this forum I had preset my assistance levels to 25/45, 45/70. 70/100, and felt no need to change them yet. On the old bike I had Eco at 15/30 and rode in that mode almost all the time. During the initial ride I went into Trail mode once but have yet to try Turbo. And just to get a feel for no-boost riding, I turned it off for the last mile or so – which included a short stretch at 5% grade – and found that the bike had enough gearing to go right up it (at about 260W rider power), which is a good sign especially considering that I’m not in my best condition after three months of not riding.

So my first impression is that this bike is exactly what I had always pictured as my ideal e-bike and can well serve as my every-day bike as well. I’ll hate to see the Crosstrail go after all we’ve been through together, but there’s probably no practical reason to keep it around much longer (and I could do with one less bike to clean and maintain!).

 

[mjh5]

The third object is a blanking plate to be slotted into the stem in place of the bracket that holds the TCU (or whatever it's called on the Vado SL 4). I've got a SL 5.0 and it came with the bracket, but has the TCU in the frame, so I removed the bracket and used this blanking plate.
View attachment 121373

Mystery solved. Thanks.