Specialized motor 1.3 vs 1.2

[PaD]

Just found out that for 2019 the Vado 5.0 in Europe will be a 25km/h bike (15.5mph) but it will come with the 1.3 motor. That motor was used in 2018 Levo.
The 1.2 motor will still be used for Vado 2.0 , 3.0 and 4.0 in Europe.
Anyone know if the 1.3 that is supposed to deliver 15% more torque and have better heat management also will be more efficient and get more miles out of the battery?

 

[bikeman242]

I am also interested in this.

 

[PaD]

I found this chart from Brose in a paper about 2018 motors. It doesn’t exactly answer my question about possibly better efficiency in the S motor but shows perhaps difference in power delivery.

And this is from a thread in a EBR forum I think.

 

[Summitbid]

I’m wondering what is the difference between the 1.2 and 1.3 motors?

I’m considering a Vado 4 which uses the 1.2 but non of the shop guys can tell me what the difference is and I’d like to understand this before I buy.

Thanks.

 

[rob_s]

https://translate.googleusercontent...700259&usg=ALkJrhgR92yoLOK-W2LbAuV2zbYXqWWN4Q

 

[Summitbid]

Thanks Rob.

I’m an engineer (software) but I’m not sure how to read this from a general, “what’s the difference?” Perspective.

It looks like all except the 1.2E have similar Mechanical Power (wattage) curves. Maybe that means the 1.2 E is to be avoided.

It looks like there might be some hardware differences based on the Brose hardware column but “Drive T” “Drive TF” etc doesn’t mean much to me and the last 4 columns are Greek to me.
I mean German.

 

[rob_s]

Looks like the main difference is:
more torque - 90nm compared to 85nm
more max power550w compared to 520w
more assistance possible - 410% compared to 320% - I think this one is most significant if you can't produce much power through the peddles as you will get more power for less peddle input power

Also the 1.3 software is an update but no details are available about this as far as my research has gone.

And yes, I would avoid the new 1.2E motor due to low torque.
In Canada, the old 2019 Vado 3 had the 1.2 motor but the new 2020 Vado 3 now has the 1.2E motor. I was looking at the 3 for my wife but now it will have to be the Vado 4

 

[Summitbid]

The local BikeSource has a Vado v4 RTR I may go test ride today. I rode the Vado 3 yesterday for 24 miles. Interested to see if I notice any difference.

Thanks!

Looks like the main difference is:
more torque - 90nm compared to 85nm
more max power550w compared to 520w
more assistance possible - 410% compared to 320% - I think this one is most significant if you can't produce much power through the peddles as you will get more power for less peddle input power

Also the 1.3 software is an update but no details are available about this as far as my research has gone.

And yes, I would avoid the new 1.2E motor due to low torque.
In Canada, the old 2019 Vado 3 had the 1.2 motor but the new 2020 Vado 3 now has the 1.2E motor. I was looking at the 3 for my wife but now it will have to be the Vado 4

 

[rob_s]

Please post your results. I'm curious if the new version results in any apparent differences.
I have a 2018 V3 and really enjoy it.

 

[Summitbid]

Got rained out. A hail storm hit just as I was ready to test ride. Maybe tomorrow but we’re getting a lot of rain and hailstorms regularly in the afternoon this spring.

Please post your results. I'm curious if the new version results in any apparent differences.
I have a 2018 V3 and really enjoy it.

 

[Ebiker01]

Just found out that for 2019 the Vado 5.0 in Europe will be a 25km/h bike (15.5mph) but it will come with the 1.3 motor. That motor was used in 2018 Levo.
The 1.2 motor will still be used for Vado 2.0 , 3.0 and 4.0 in Europe.
Anyone know if the 1.3 that is supposed to deliver 15% more torque and have better heat management also will be more efficient and get more miles out of the battery?

With this regulations, why would someone need a motor to go up to 15.5mph and most imp. how did customers got conned into buying such an ebike ? For hills it helps but not all rides are hilly.
Most people can pedal up to 18mph w/o issues.

 

[rob_s]

Most people can do 18mph w/o issues, this is true.
I used to be able to do that before a heart attack. Not any more.
The Vado gets me back on a bike

 

[PaD]

With this regulations, why would someone need a motor to go up to 15.5mph and most imp. how did customers got conned into buying such an ebike ? For hills it helps but not all rides are hilly.
Most people can pedal up to 18mph w/o issues.

Short answer - Europe is not USA. Infrastructure is totally different in the Old World.

Part of a longer answer
How about the fact that an ebike may, even if it only goes 25km/h, make it possible for thousands of people all over Europe to commute by bike instead of driving a car or wait for the bus. And arrive at work without the need for a shower.
Bike lanes in Sweden are narrow and I´m really glad the speedpedelecs are not allowed in bike lanes. We have enough of scary situations caused by mamils.
Sure a lot of people can do 18 mph but for how long and under what conditions? How about being able to go for recreational bike excursions of 30 - 70miles at the age of 67+?
I can , at 67, still go for bike rides with my old Gary Fisher Utopia but the e-bike opens up for new ppossibilities.
Everything is big in America. Big cities ,long commutes and vast open land so I understand a lot of people want the 28mph bikes but sometimes when I read posting in this forum I wonder why people are asking about e-bikes when what they really want is an electric motorcycle.

 

[PaD]

My (not so scientific) impressions of difference between 1.2 and 1.3 motors
I had a 1.2 motor ( Vado 4.0) last year and rode it about 2500km or 150-160 miles before it was stolen. I now have (since April 30th) a Vado 5.0 with the 1.3 motor.
My memory of the 1.2 is that it was "very strong" in Eco mode. My feeling about my new Vado 5.0 is that the Eco mode may be a little less powerful.
I get the impression that the tuning/software for the Vado 5.0 with 1.3 motor has more emphasis on range compared to the 2018 Vado 4.0. The bigger battery that comes with Vado 5.0 ( 604Wh) has 20% higher capacity but the all the miles I´ve been getting makes me think there’s more to it than battery size.
Starting with a fully charged battery I once rode 120km/ 70 miles (not in one take) and battery still showed 22%. Two days ago I did 86km (54miles) starting with battery at 87% and finishing at 37%. This would mean total range of 110miles!
Range is of course very dependant on speed, wind and mountainous conditions.

With my Vado 4.0 I never expected to be able to do more than maximum 65-70miles.
The 1.3 motor is said to be more efficient ( better heat management) but the figure I recall i´ve seen is 1-2%.
It would be very interesting to see how the power settings are or were for the 1.2 motor with Street tune. Not just support level but also Peak power. I ride my Vado 5.0 with the standard ECO setting 35% Support and 35% Peak power.

Edit
The 1.3 is not as quiet as the 1.2. Not noisy but less quiet. ( is silent a better word?)

 

[rob_s]

PaD, did your old 4 have the BLOCS display and the new 5 have the new display?
I found that the eco setting on my 3 was stronger before the display was upgraded to the new one. (no change in app settings)
Now that I have the app working, I use 25% in eco and get enough assist and better range.
For low energy days, I set SPORT to 30% with 70% max. That gets me through on difficult days.

 

[PaD]

PaD, did your old 4 have the BLOCS display and the new 5 have the new display?
I found that the eco setting on my 3 was stronger before the display was upgraded to the new one. (no change in app settings)
Now that I have the app working, I use 25% in eco and get enough assist and better range.
For low energy days, I set SPORT to 30% with 70% max. That gets me through on difficult days.

Yes my 4.0 had the Blocs display and my 5.0 has the new display. I’ve been thinking about lowering Eco assist but I get a satisfying range so I’ll probably keep the 35/35. Will definitely test different settings though.
Oh, and I still have the Blocs display because it was in my pocket when the bike got away. Also have an extra charger

 

[Summitbid]

First day with no rain and I rode a Vado 4 and a Vado 5. The 4 I rode for around 7 miles on gravel path and pavement path and it was about the same as the 3. The 5 I rode for about 6 miles and it actually felt more powerful but it’s hard to say if I was just imagining it. I have no real metrics. They are both amazing to ride.

I ordered a Vado 4 and it should arrive tomorrow.

 

[PaD]

Ther’s more to it than Support level ( I think )
Did a minor test yesterday evening with the power levels in Eco mode on my 1.3 motor.
Rode 15km in preset Eco mode, Support level 35%, Peak power 35%. Used 8% battery ( from 80 to 72)
Then I adjusted the Peak power to 50% but kept Support at 35%. Must say that the bike felt more like my memory of the Vado I had last year.
I rode 20km with this setting and used 10 - 11% battery so there was no obvious increase in power consumption but Eco mode was more powerful

Of course this was no scientific test with exactly the same riding and road conditions. I will try this setting over a longer ride any day soon.
Found user manual for 2018 Vado 4.0 and it says that the three support level settings were 35%, 70% and 100%. I’m thinking that Peak power for Eco mode was set higher than the new bikes with the new display.

 

[Marci jo]

First day with no rain and I rode a Vado 4 and a Vado 5. The 4 I rode for around 7 miles on gravel path and pavement path and it was about the same as the 3. The 5 I rode for about 6 miles and it actually felt more powerful but it’s hard to say if I was just imagining it. I have no real metrics. They are both amazing to ride.

I ordered a Vado 4 and it should arrive tomorrow.

Congrats on the new ebike! And many wonderful rides for you.

 

[Summitbid]

Congrats on the new ebike! And many wonderful rides for you.

Thanks. This morning was my first ride on it to work and it never got over 20mph. I biked home too and same thing. I’m back at the bike shop hoping it’s just a simple misconfiguration.

I’ve been here over 30 mins now however and he’s still scratching his head though so not looking good.