specialized creo 2

[Stefan Mikes]

Guys,

I was suddenly cured. No, I won't buy even an alloy Creo 2 (if and when it becomes available). SRAM 12s drivetrain?! How many of you do realise the SRAM 12s cassette has all its sprockets pinned, and it is unserviceable? If a single SRAM cog wears out, you would need to replace the whole deadly expensive cassette! No, thank you. Even if I could afford a Creo 2, I could not afford the maintenance expenses...

Garbaruk (that makes more lightweight and less expensive cassettes for SRAM) says they use as much as 9 kg of steel and 1.2 kg of 7075 aluminium to make the 340 g SRAM compatible cassette. What a waste of the material! While Shimano 12s 7100 cassettes are fully serviceable with as many as 5 sprockets replaceable!

Someone must have gone mad...

 

[mschwett]

Guys,

I was suddenly cured. No, I won't buy even an alloy Creo 2 (if and when it becomes available). SRAM 12s drivetrain?! How many of you do realise the SRAM 12s cassette has all its sprockets pinned, and it is unserviceable? If a single SRAM cog wears out, you would need to replace the whole deadly expensive cassette! No, thank you. Even if I could afford a Creo 2, I could not afford the maintenance expenses...

Garbaruk (that makes more lightweight and less expensive cassettes for SRAM) says they use as much as 9 kg of steel and 1.2 kg of 7075 aluminium to make the 340 g SRAM compatible cassette. What a waste of the material! While Shimano 12s 7100 cassettes are fully serviceable with as many as 5 sprockets replaceable!

Someone must have gone mad...

a lot of cassettes are like this. the SRAM 11 speed cassette i put on my creo 1 is like this. there are others on the market for 11 and 12 speed that are not like that, although the availability of individual cogs vary.

shimano 12 speed still has the smallest 6 or so free.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

shimano 12 speed still has the smallest 6 or so free.

It depends on the model. The 7100 allows replacing five.

My point is I won't buy a SRAM e-bike. It is madness. Very un-ecological, too.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

This is a SRAM XX1 12s cassette for US$400. A single sprocket wears out and the whole component goes to junk. It should be forbidden by law (Right To Repair).

The competitive and compatible cassette from Garbaruk. The price is US$269.

 

[augie05]

Yes but the SL1.2 motor is 56% of the power of your 2.2 (full power) motor, and the Creo main battery is 45% of your Vado 5.0 one.
Your Vado can ride very fast at low effort. Are you ready to ride slower on the Creo 2 and input a significant effort into the ride?

Next: are you ready for the irremovable battery of Creo 2? 5.0

Good insights on the differences. I am interested in the Creo 2 but need to rationalize the tradeoffs. I currently ride a Tero 5.0 and enjoy the bike. The power is amazing. I also own a Diverge analog gravel bike (which has been my favorite bike overall) but haven't been able to ride the Diverge as much the last few months due to health issues.

 

[gpburdell]

@augie05 - if your Tero's Sport mode is at the default 60% Support / 60% Peak Power it is pretty close to the full assist and peak power of the SL 1.2 motor. (320 W / 560W peak power is 57%, 2.3x / 4x rider amplification is 57.5%)

.. and if your Tero's Eco mode is at 35% / 35% that is pretty close to the Creo2 if it's Sport mode is at 60% Support 60% Assist

That could give you a feel for whether the Creo2 would be powerful enough for your needs.

(According to Specialized, the SL 1.2 motor provides up to 2.3x rider power as compared to the SL 1.1 motor's 1.8x)

 

[Stefan Mikes]

@augie05 - if your Tero's Sport mode is at the default 60% Support / 60% Peak Power it is pretty close to the full assist and peak power of the SL 1.2 motor. (320 W / 560W peak power is 57%, 2.3x / 4x rider amplification is 57.5%)

.. and if your Tero's Eco mode is at 35% / 35% that is pretty close to the Creo2 if it's Sport mode is at 60% Support 60% Assist

That could give you a feel for whether the Creo2 would be powerful enough for your needs.

(According to Specialized, the SL 1.2 motor provides up to 2.3x rider power as compared to the SL 1.1 motor's 1.8x)

It is necessary to mention riding Creo 2 at the 100% assistance and motor power (2.3x assist and 320 W peak power) will send the SL battery into the drain quickly.

The two SL 1.1 custom assistance settings that allow pretty long rides are:

• SL 30/60%, which is 0.54x assist with the mechanical motor power capped at 144 W. It is equivalent to 13.5% assist and 25.5% Max Power of Tero 5.0
• SL 55/55%, which is 0.99x assist and 132 W max mechanical motor power. It is equivalent to Tero 5.0 at 25/23%.

The custom settings for SL 1.2 would be even lower to maintain reasonable battery consumption but to keep the assist and motor power at the levels listed above.

Yes, Creo 2 is lightweight compared to Tero 5.0. Because of aerodynamics and riding position, Creo 2 is easier to ride at low assistance levels. There is, however, a mental challenge to the rider: Creo 2 would feel a traditional bike while Tero 5.0 feels more like a lightweight motorcycle. The SL rider needs to be convinced he/she wants to ride a bicycle!

(Says a person who despite several medical conditions chose an SL e-bike as the preferred ride)

 

[mschwett]

this review unfortunately sums up my impression :

Overall, I am unsure what to make of the V2 Creo. I ponder if Specialized made V2 Creo more capable and created a bike decent for various things. Yet, I do not have a clear idea of what the Creo 2 wants to be and who it is for.

It feels that Specialized now has a great e-gravel(ish) bike, but the brand no longer has a solution for riders who want an e-road bike. Maybe, hopefully, an e-Roubaix or e-Tarmac is in the works to plug that hole.

for those who mostly ride fire roads and dirt roads and groomed trails, an interesting bike. for everyone else, a step backward!

First Ride: Specialized Creo 2 E-Bike

With a more powerful motor, new geometry, new build kits, and new features, the Creo is more capable than ever. But does it lose something, too?

www.bicycling.com

 

[Stefan Mikes]

For what it is worth, UCI has now recognised gravel cycling as a discipline. Polish Katarzyna Niewiadoma (29) has become the female world champion in the sport as of today. She was a road cyclist before.

Not related to e-bikes. Specialized must have realised gravel cycling is hot stuff now

 

[mschwett]

That's interesting about the hub spacing and it does resolve a major issue I had with the bike. I wanted to buy a nice set of carbon wheels for the bike but didn't want to splurge on a really nice set of wheels that couldn't be used with any other bike.

As for the 2X e-roadbike, the Trek Domane+ is one that I have my eye on. I might venture onto gravel once in a while and the 40 mm clearance of the Domane+ is all I require. Most of the time I'm on pavement. I would prefer sometime suited to the terrain I ride 95+% of the time.

interestingly, i read that the Q factor of the new SL motor is narrower - 7mm i think - which might get close to making 2x work! i think a true road SL e-bike might be out there someday ….

 

[Jaspal]

Is this not good for road use? If you were to change wheel

 

[gpburdell]

Is this not good for road use? If you were to change wheel

I don’t know that it’s so much not good for road use, as much as there are probably better choices for pure road riding.

With the capability of taking 700 x 2.2 tires, this stretches the wheelbase as well as fork and chainstay lengths to accommodate the greater diameter wheels, which may make this not as nimble as a frame with a smaller max wheel size. Additionally Specialized recommends against smaller than 700x38 tires on the Creo2 models, so if you prefer 28 or 30 or 32mm tires you’d be going against manuf recommendation.

that said, I don’t have personal experience with a Creo2, so maybe it can perform just fine as a purely road bike. My point is do your research.

 

[bobf]

this review unfortunately sums up my impression :



for those who mostly ride fire roads and dirt roads and groomed trails, an interesting bike. for everyone else, a step backward!

First Ride: Specialized Creo 2 E-Bike

With a more powerful motor, new geometry, new build kits, and new features, the Creo is more capable than ever. But does it lose something, too?

www.bicycling.com

I feel the same. I assume Specialized has a market strategy. It would be interesting to know whether the Creo 1 EVO outsold the Creo 1.

 

[AvalancheRun]

this review unfortunately sums up my impression :



for those who mostly ride fire roads and dirt roads and groomed trails, an interesting bike. for everyone else, a step backward!

First Ride: Specialized Creo 2 E-Bike

With a more powerful motor, new geometry, new build kits, and new features, the Creo is more capable than ever. But does it lose something, too?

www.bicycling.com

They seemed to like the future shock, but also had this to say:

“I feel like Specialized whiffed slightly with the V2’s overall compliance. The 47mm tires do a lot of work here, but when riding on unpaved surfaces, there’s no hiding that this is a stoutly built e-bike frame. And given the V2 Creo’s positioning and build kits, Specialized missed an opportunity to adopt the Diverge STR’s Future Shock rear suspension system onto the Creo.”

If the negative is truly rear comfort only, then seems like redshift post is an easy fix. It’s slightly unclear to me.

Elsewhere (can’t recall) I read that someone did a 50 mile ride and found it a little rougher than expected.

 

[mschwett]

They seemed to like the future shock, but also had this to say:

“I feel like Specialized whiffed slightly with the V2’s overall compliance. The 47mm tires do a lot of work here, but when riding on unpaved surfaces, there’s no hiding that this is a stoutly built e-bike frame. And given the V2 Creo’s positioning and build kits, Specialized missed an opportunity to adopt the Diverge STR’s Future Shock rear suspension system onto the Creo.”

If the negative is truly rear comfort only, then seems like redshift post is an easy fix. It’s slightly unclear to me.

Elsewhere (can’t recall) I read that someone did a 50 mile ride and found it a little rougher than expected.

a suspension post does not belong on a road bike, period, full stop! the reason you see the exotic systems like the STR future shock or iso couplers is to preserve a rigid connection from saddle to frame while damping some vibrations and adding as little weight as possible. with a carbon frame, specialized should have been able to tune in a significant amount of compliance in the rear end despite the giant downtube needed for the battery. i never felt the creo was a harsh ride, but those reports seem to be coming in about the creo 2 which is strange given the huge tires. i shudder at what the aluminum one will be like!!!

it is very strange that if specialized was positioning this as an e gravel bike first, it doesn’t have much more in common with the diverge.

i still think/hope they’ll come out with an actual road e-bike. trek has, after all!!

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I cannot really understand all this "bitching".

• Specialized is not obliged to release a new line of road (race) e-bikes now. The brand may do it whenever deserved, perhaps for the next season. Creo 1 can still be bought for the road.
• I am sure the market and profitability analysis is done in such a big company as Specialized. The brand needed a gravel e-bike because it will sell. Creo 1 EVO was not good enough for gravel cyclists, and Specialized must have realised that.
• The gravel cycling thing is hot now. It is not a coincidence the UCI has just recognised the sport as the official discipline. https://ucigravelworldseries.com/en/results/ Who is behind these races? TREK is.
• In the article quoted by Mark, the author was sorry for the European riders (the 25 km/h speed restriction). The road e-bike will not keep you together with your peloton anywhere in the world outside the United States and New Zealand, and Canada might be a market because of the mountains. Elsewhere, a 25 km/h road e-bike makes no sense whatsoever.
• On contrary, 25 km/h is a pretty high speed in the forest or rough terrain. A gravel e-bike makes a lot of sense, as riding as fast as 25 km/h off-road on a drop bar bike is beyond the capabilities of most of the riders.
• 2x chainring on a mid-drive motor e-bike? Please name the brand/model that has a successful design of such road e-bike. I would make use of the reduced Q-factor for more efficient pedalling.
• An STR Future Shock damper? To what purpose? To make the e-bike even heavier? Almost all gravel bikes do perfectly well without any suspension.

Let us make it clear: Specialized wanted a gravel e-bike and made it. Any discussion related to how make the Creo 2 a road e-bike makes little sense. Whatever "the Specialized representatives" say.

Gravel cycling is fashionable now. The winners of the UCI Gravel World Series are the road racers who were not good enough to be winning major road races but excel in the discipline requiring riding for at least 60% off-road or on cobbles. (The Polish cyclist represents Canyon-SRAM team).

 

[MikeDee]

Nobody mentioned that the range of the Creo 2 in eco mode is only 43 miles (recent review in Bicycling). V1 is 80 miles. If that's true, V2 is unsuited to anyone that does long road rides. I guess for a gravel bike that range is OK? The Creo was on my short list but now crossed off the list. The Creo V1 is still on the Specialized website so maybe they are continuing with two versions going forward?

 

[mschwett]

Nobody mentioned that the range of the Creo 2 in eco mode is only 43 miles (recent review in Bicycling). V1 is 80 miles. If that's true, V2 is unsuited to anyone that does long road rides. I guess for a gravel bike that range is OK? The Creo was on my short list but now crossed off the list. The Creo V1 is still on the Specialized website so maybe they are continuing with two versions going forward?

you just have to turn the support way down - to match the v1 support levels - and then the only problem re:range would be the tires.

 

[MikeDee]

you just have to turn the support way down - to match the v1 support levels - and then the only problem re:range would be the tires.

I'd like to see that proved. You're talking about a power reduction of almost 50% in eco mode. That's a serious power reduction and I'm skeptical about the rideablity of the bike in that mode and if the range would be that much increased. I'm not about to plunk down big money on the bike based in the off chance that what you say would work.

 

[Jaspal]

I feel the same. I assume Specialized has a market strategy. It would be interesting to know whether the Creo 1 EVO outsold the Creo 1.

T

Nobody mentioned that the range of the Creo 2 in eco mode is only 43 miles (recent review in Bicycling). V1 is 80 miles. If that's true, V2 is unsuited to anyone that does long road rides. I guess for a gravel bike that range is OK? The Creo was on my short list but now crossed off the list. The Creo V1 is still on the Specialized website so maybe they are continuing with two versions going forward?

his was a major blow having to resort to another brand