Sondors Fact Finding. Due Diligence. Scrutiny.

Chas said:
(I guess I am in FTC's "ZERO" category. LOL).
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No you are definitely A Number One! in my book. Many folks here do their own work because they build their own bikes, batteries etc; more people do their own work here than the "click to buy me now crowd."
 
@EULITTLB - I suspect that most people are quite happy with their bike because:
1) its a shiny new thing (that they have been waiting for)
2) they got the latest toy on the block (think Mr Hillis,, the bikenut from dallas)
3) pretty much everyone here thought their first ride on an ebike was pretty cool.

Interesting to see the claim of 7 miles range (in one case). kinda supports the 10 mile range that people were projecting.

I think with all the discussion around this, people's expectations have been adequately adjusted, or they bailed long ago (or ended up here or ES).

Now I am curious to see:
- Court's review
- how many of them end up on Craig's list within a year (its already started).

Although it can't be long before someone puts in a 48v battery in one of these. That would be a fun ride with a 30% speed and power boost. You could put a nice em3ev triangle battery pack in that case, but that battery could cost more than the bike. LOL.
http://em3ev.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=35&product_id=123
 
Yes, you can get anything on alibaba, although the newer style skinny batteries are probably a better bet.
(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)
 
@Chas more power, more speed = better brakes - managed to get 51.5 km/h out of the BMW Cruise downhill, but it has the tyres, the brakes and the frame/chassis to cope with that speed. The bike is a distraction lol, it is the Campaign that fascinates me, who knows how many have been delivered - I don't think more than 1-200, maybe 300 - out of 7000-7500! And no international shipments........... still. It is gonigt o be an interesting few weeks, wait for the first voices of dissension. A certain Ms Nancy Weismann isn't holding back on what she thinks, Florida based I believe.
 
Just curious, do they mean end of August? Delivery notification within the next few weeks? That takes us out of July, the wording is crucial, always estimated, should, probably, coming soon etc...

Sondors Ebike USA Yellow/Orange should receive tracking numbers in the next few weeks and with bikes estimated to get to backers by end of month!

Ahem

Blue should receive tracking number in the next few weeks and is estimated to get to backers by end of month!

It is purposeful, believe me - end of THE month refers to this month wtf types "end of month?" "I'll see you end of week" What are you doing end of day?" It is scripted and there are shenanigans going on believe me. People can throw eggs whilst a few bikes are being delivered, but it is all going to end in tears.
 
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EULITTLB said:
@Chas more power, more speed = better brakes - managed to get 51.5 km/h out of the BMW Cruise downhill, but it has the tyres, the brakes and the frame/chassis to cope with that speed. The bike is a distraction lol, it is the Campaign that fascinates me, who knows how many have been delivered - I don't think more than 1-200, maybe 300 - out of 7000-7500! And no international shipments........... still. It is gonigt o be an interesting few weeks, wait for the first voices of dissension. A certain Ms Nancy Weismann isn't holding back on what she thinks, Florida based I believe.
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I used to get my $250 raleigh mountain bike up to 60km/h - never once took it back to the shop for maintenance in 4 years of use, never had it fail on me, and that was close to 20 years ago with rim brake pads. No need to instill so much fear with regard to speed!
 
Yeah, there are 48v problems (as with any hot rod project)
- It is going to overheat faster on hills or off road
- Who knows if the bike can handle the speed (probably 25mph if it is a260rpm @ 36v motor)
- Tires

Some of the Fatbike gurus have problems running at low fatbike PSI and having the tubes chafe against the tire and failing. The tires were designed for 10mph. That and I would be leery of a 60++ lb bike (plus rider) over 20 mph on no name Chinese tires. That is why there is an e-bike tire certification. Many of the issues go up exponentially with speed (literally). A problem with the front fork, brakes, or tire at 25+mph is a trip to the hospital.

Still, 25 - 30mph is nice on the right bike…

(yep, you need a new controller with the 48v battery, that is about $15-$20 for a comparable controller (plus shipping))
 
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Chas - I've heard people run 48v on their 250 and 350watt motor, you're saying this will overheat the motor? That bms 48v battery you post looks very nice, do you happen to know how to mod the controller like from top speed of 17mph to 20+ mph?
 
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Absolutely, Eulittlb! when you force the motor by pushing more amps more heat is generated together with higher rolling resistance from the monster size fatbike tires. The wiring harness for this motor is probably not overbuilt or big enough gauge to handle 48V plus extra speed for very long without the motor overheating; particularly on hills or with larger riders. Most hub motors don't really have a good way to dissipate the heat. Golden Motor does have an interesting vent system for its hub motor kits that helps to pull air around the stator.
 
I think people over state the danger of "e-bike speeds". Remember, bikes are built to go down hills too and any normal bike will easily hit 30mph on a steep hill - if they can do that, I see no reason to think they can't go 30mph on the flat without problems. Sure, day to day wear and tear increases when you increase average speed but that's just a maintenance issue.
 
Chas said:
@EULITTLB

Interesting to see the claim of 7 miles range (in one case). kinda supports the 10 mile range that people were projecting.
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It's interesting that someone mentions the hefty dude with a seven mile range and not the avid cyclist who got (and geomapped) 24 miles and 1500' of elevation with battery to spare. Electric bikes are hybrids and what the other half of the hybrid weighs and does makes a huge difference.
 
vincent713 said:
Chas - I've heard people run 48v on their 250 and 350watt motor, you're saying this will overheat the motor? That bms 48v battery you post looks very nice, do you happen to know how to mod the controller like from top speed of 17mph to 20+ mph?
Click to expand...

Speed of an electric motor is determined by the motor design (say 250rpm at 36v) and the voltage applied. The only way to increase the speed of the motor is to apply more voltage. Increasing the amperage will increase the pulling power, but will not change your speed.

Any hub motor (or controller) will overheat if you push too much energy through it at low enough speeds.

A typical 36v 350 watt motor will never overheat on a flat hard surface. Even at 48v, it will never overheat on a flat dry surface where it can run in its zone of efficiency. However, if you go full throttle at slower speeds for long enough, it will overheat. Think deep sand, steep hill, or something else that slows you down. For a 10% grade, the stock 36v motor will overheat in 6 minutes at full throttle at 7mph. At 7mph & 48volts, it will overheat at 2.3 minutes. You can do more power, it will just overheat quicker.

(Calculations are based of a 200rpm 350 watt Q100 with 15amp controller).

If you want to run a 350watt bike (aka Sondors or similar) @48v, just use a low amp controller similar to what comes on the bike (~14 amps 48v 6mosfets), and don’t spend a lot of time at full throttle below 10mph. Odds are that you will be ok.

Ops, I just realized he is using a 260 rpm motor. That motor is going to be more stressed than a 200rpm motor, especially at 48volts. It is easier to take a small motor from 15 to 20mph, than from 20mph to 25mph.

Adrian said:
I think people over state the danger of "e-bike speeds". Remember, bikes are built to go down hills too and any normal bike will easily hit 30mph on a steep hill - if they can do that, I see no reason to think they can't go 30mph on the flat without problems. Sure, day to day wear and tear increases when you increase average speed but that's just a maintenance issue.
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@Adrian – with all respect, most fat bikes are designed for around 10mph. Specifically this bike’s tires are not designed or certified for 20+ mph. There are many (non fat bike) tires that are. Also, there is a big difference in brakes between the bottom tier and mid tier.

I’ve ridden well designed brakes on a 500lb bike at 40mph (fully loaded Trek touring tandem), but some wall mart brakes would scare me at 15mph.

The Storm bike isn’t really designed for anything the way a Trek or Specialized is designed, tested, analyzed, & refined. Yes, those bikes are designed for 30mph, but a big box retail store bike is not. There is a huge difference.

And speaking from personal experience, it really, really hurts when something critical on my bike brakes at speeds of 25-30mph (not to mention the trip to the hospital).
 
freddy said:
It's interesting that someone mentions the hefty dude with a seven mile range and not the avid cyclist who got (and geomapped) 24 miles and 1500' of elevation with battery to spare. Electric bikes are hybrids and what the other half of the hybrid weighs and does makes a huge difference.
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I'm an avid cyclist. My first build I rode 24 miles and used about 20% of the battery. Just means I was doing most of the work, not the motor. An avid cyclist can do 100 miles on no batteries. The real question is, what can the bike do without any assistance.
 
From Facebook Sondors Official Page

Hasnain S JafferyGot my bike on Friday and motor doesn't work at all. doing email every day but no response. Sondors Ebike has a horrible customer service overall. they never reply you in time and do not communicate. Asked them to call me in every email. but so far no response. What a customer service . <oney down the drain!

Customer Service - Please find part of the missing $300 in the cost of the Sondors Ebike.
 
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Again in fairness FTC given that I estimate 200 or so bikes have been delivered the guys on the Owners Page seem to be doing a good job supporting those that have received bikes - who knows if the guys comms have been received, problems seem few and far between with the actual bike, it is more the people who haven't received bikes, and neither are they going to for months and months at least, that concerns me.
 
EULITTLB said:
Again in fairness FTC given that I estimate 200 or so bikes have been delivered the guys on the Owners Page seem to be doing a good job supporting those that have received bikes - who knows if the guys comms have been received, problems seem few and far between with the actual bike, it is more the people who haven't received bikes, and neither are they going to for months and months at least, that concerns me.
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Here is a short list of problems from FB
That would be allot of problems per 200-400 bikes
Some are quite serious as well and could (or over time) cause injury.
This is Storm's responsibility, not end users.

I did however have the forks backwards and almost killed myself on the first corner. that's what I get for being mad with excitement. its going to be a cool commute tomorrow

Dead Charger.

My local bike shop just said no to assemble my bike. "Liability issues".


I'd say you would be lucky to get 10 miles on flat ground. (some users report 16 miles)


I was thinking we are going to have 3 levels of pedal assist? There is only 1 and no way to adjust it?


Anybody has a good idea, how to make sure that the front disk brake is best fitted?, I have tried several times to improve the fit, but the disk still drags a bit…


Owners help! Trying to connect front brake, but the cable is not long enough to extend it. Have a look, any ideas?



Is there a Technical Data Sheet for the Bike? I will need this for legal driving in my country


no lube in the bearing


on initial charging the 4 cells are green on battery but 5th stays red after hours of charging. I did the plug into the battery first then the wall. Thinking maybe the cell will balance with a few discharges and charges?? Or possible bad cell......


BIKE SHOP SAID : NEVER GET IT WET "! they assembled for me.. and don't take curves.. at 20 mph...
tires not design for that !


I have a screw loose smile emoticon One was buried under the battery holder and I couldn't get an allen wrench on it so I had to remove the battery holder and the controller to get access. The screw under the battery holder was loose enough I could remove it without the wrench. The other screws turned about 3 rotations before they were snug. What ever you do don't tighten the screws too tight or you could break the plastic or strip the threads. I added blue loctite to all of them hoping they will stay put. Read the comments, there are some good ideas down below.


- bike with battery 61.6 lbs

Yes!!! I got mine today!!!!....but are there no instructions? Really? Guess this is when we all become friends smile emoticon How do you connect the front brake? And what are the keys for? Please help.


So I assembled the bike today, everything went well, but the battery isn't charging. When I connect the charger to the battery, the LED on the charger doesn't turn on, just stays off. I am thinking the charger is broken, tried a few working outlets and same issue. I tried with battery in off position as the instructions state. Any ideas of what may be happening or where to get a new charger? Is there a warranty on the charger?


Well the pedal was sticking through the side of the box. But it doesn't seem to have been damaged will start putting together process soon


I got mine put together but can't ride it. It's way too tall.


So I went out for a ride to see if I could empty the battery and max some miles. (I personally feel the throttle led's are a garbage indicator). Instead I got dual flats, but was rescued by Car2Go electric vehicles.



So...my bike came. I assembled it. It's beautiful! I'm 5'1" and the bike is HUGE! It's too big for me, I am unable to straddle the frame and the body is so wide with the battery that it's not terribly safe for me to stop if I don't have a curb immediately available. Any suggestions?


I had to remove the spacer washers to make the front brake on mine perfect…


For those of you who have your bikes or who have experienced riding them, how loud are they? Also, does anyone know if these bikes are street legal in New York? I've heard there may be issues.


To those who already received the bikes, what's your max mileage on full charge? I hit 14.5mi today. Still has some juice left. 3.5mi more to go home. If it lasts, my max would be 18mi so far.


Bike powered up but won't go due to brake cutoff

Battery cradle connection overheating.
.

Battery arc when connecting charger to battery. So far every time I've connected the charger to the battery I get a small arc. Battery is out of the bike and switched off and charger input is unplugged. Anyone else experience this?


the factory does not grease the bearings



Went for a 7 mile ride this morning. I rode pedaling and at full throttle most of the way. The battery was 3/4 spent by the time I got here. I weigh as much as two people.


But I still have an issue with the battery popping loose on uneven pavement bumps. It happened twice today riding in downtown San Diego.

Could the cable connectors on the inside part of the battery box be an issue?

For those of you that are wondering, I'm familiar with the intricate workings of a lock, thank you. I have to manhandle the battery down to lock it.


There was also a thread where the battery contacts were not seated properly. Maybe loose battery contacts are preventing the battery from seating properly?


The batter does not get locked in after I inserted it and turned the key to the lock position. I can still remove the battery even after it is "locked". I went ahead and took a ride with it. The battery "died" within two miles. As it turned out, the battery popped out by itself just from the bad road condition.



I clearly need the brakes adjusted


Inexpensive Chinese freewheel cog is starting to click and skip under hard pedaling



So I ran into a little snag today... took the bike to the store -- went into the store -- came out -- started it up -- went a few feet and then the throttle cut out? I checked the battery... still full charge, I checked the throttle switch -- doesn't light up. So anybody experience this yet... also the battery terminal looks a little warped I'll post a pic here soon.


I do have a bit of brake rub from both front and back


f. No cigar. The charge light indicator on the handle bar is always at red.

Last night I left the battery charging by itself, this morning the light indicator on the charger was green. But when I put the battery on the bike it showed as empty.

My bike shop wanted 150 for assembly-- no thanks

Tire inflation problems
 
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FTC Complaint said:
From Facebook Sondors Official Page

Hasnain S JafferyGot my bike on Friday and motor doesn't work at all. doing email every day but no response. Sondors Ebike has a horrible customer service overall. they never reply you in time and do not communicate. Asked them to call me in every email. but so far no response. What a customer service . <oney down the drain!

Customer Service - Please find part of the missing $300 in the cost of the Sondors Ebike.
Click to expand...
@FTC Complaint this is interesting data; please post it on the Sonders First Impressions forum
 
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