Sondors Fact Finding. Due Diligence. Scrutiny.
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Chris Roser
New Member
Not sure. Wave 1 cutt off was March 3rd I believe. [email protected] is the place to ask questions. I've heard from other sources that refunds are starting to
be issued on a case by case basis. The Funding amount shown on the IGG page did support that with a decrease in the amount shown as being raised.
Its all speculative at this point but I've yet to see Greg Dawson post that no refunds would be issued. The lack of success that some have had at getting a refund
might be related to their approach and history of demands. Again just speculation.
Hurley
Active Member
Well most of the answers seem to rely on when the campaign ends (color, cost of shipping, refund, ect...). My bet is wave1 buyers are anxious for the campaign to end so they can get the most important questions answered. It is interesting if refunds are already occurring because that contradicts the site Policy. Thanks by the way.
wa5
Well-Known Member
Yes the site policy is contradictory, on Go Sondors is says.
QUOTE) According to Indiegogo, contributions are non-refundable in their Terms of Use. However, upon the completion of the campaign, we will confirm your shipping address and your order to determine refunds on a case by case basis. We get it, sometimes life happens. We want to be fair but it is easiest done at the completion. (END)
Yet on the Indiegogo page it says (QUOTE)
Can I get a refund?
According to Indiegogo, contributions are non-refundable in their Terms of Use. There will be no refunds as all funds go immediately to
manufacturing. (END)
Given that we know that the Go Sondors Page is just a cut n paste.. perhaps it hasn't been updated?
Another example of the Sondors page getting it wrong is the shipping cost.
(QUOTE FROM GO SONDORS PAGE)
We will update shipping information at the end of the campaign, however – with the $194 – it is a cap. The more we sell the lower this figure will become, it will not go up. There is no need to pay for shipping now, we will update you on this with more accurate estimates based on volume. We’ll send you a reminder about shipping cost before the end of the campaign, at which point we’ll present you with an option to pay the cost. (END QUOTE).
Where as on the IGG page is says (QUOTE)
Will the cost of shipping go down?
No. The current cost is $194 for US shipping and $247 for International.
(END QUOTE)
Given that the freight cost was locked in at $194 / 247 later in the campaign, and the same thing with the refund going from "Life Happens" to a straight "NO".. it seems that Go Sondors page needs updating, and current information is only shown on the IGG page.
Chris, given your "interest" in this campaign, I would have thought you would be familiar with all of this?
QUOTE) According to Indiegogo, contributions are non-refundable in their Terms of Use. However, upon the completion of the campaign, we will confirm your shipping address and your order to determine refunds on a case by case basis. We get it, sometimes life happens. We want to be fair but it is easiest done at the completion. (END)
Yet on the Indiegogo page it says (QUOTE)
Can I get a refund?
According to Indiegogo, contributions are non-refundable in their Terms of Use. There will be no refunds as all funds go immediately to
manufacturing. (END)
Given that we know that the Go Sondors Page is just a cut n paste.. perhaps it hasn't been updated?
Another example of the Sondors page getting it wrong is the shipping cost.
(QUOTE FROM GO SONDORS PAGE)
We will update shipping information at the end of the campaign, however – with the $194 – it is a cap. The more we sell the lower this figure will become, it will not go up. There is no need to pay for shipping now, we will update you on this with more accurate estimates based on volume. We’ll send you a reminder about shipping cost before the end of the campaign, at which point we’ll present you with an option to pay the cost. (END QUOTE).
Where as on the IGG page is says (QUOTE)
Will the cost of shipping go down?
No. The current cost is $194 for US shipping and $247 for International.
(END QUOTE)
Given that the freight cost was locked in at $194 / 247 later in the campaign, and the same thing with the refund going from "Life Happens" to a straight "NO".. it seems that Go Sondors page needs updating, and current information is only shown on the IGG page.
Chris, given your "interest" in this campaign, I would have thought you would be familiar with all of this?
wa5
Well-Known Member
Also interesting to note on the GoSondors site, they use the Term "Buy Now" Not "Fund Now", wondering if that could come back to bight them IF this crashes and burns... as it seems in the US "Buyers" have a lot more consumer protection than "Funders".. FTC whats your take on this?
FTC Complaint
Active Member
You have to "assert your rights" In that assertion I would suggest;
using the words "sale and purchase"
talk about inaccurate representations (You, yourself, said it would be 50 miles but you tested and found it was only 23, this does not meet my needs or expectations; the product is very different than the one which was described and sold to me
you changed the shipping terms from your cost, to the full amount; I don't accept that change; I was expecting instead a communication from you on actual cost and a refund to match.
I did not understand all the terms on the website, If I had I would not have agreed to them because they are totally unfair
You have not yet delivered a product to me, even though I paid in full.
Most of all, I want my money back
Do so in plain English, in writing, certified, and don't make assumptions as to legality
IGG and Storm can say/do whatever they want, just don't play into it.
Don't consent to terms that work against you. "Perk" is a word to add confusion and to lessen your rights, don't use it in correspondence, don't agree to it, don't consent to it.
Personally, I would argue that the contract you entered into via terms of use is unconscionable. For every bit of legalese and disclaimer, there is a legal argument to counter. You and I cannot make a legal determinations, that is the job of a court.
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A
Anomander Rake
Guest
very well put FTC. And thank you. I have will think about a charge back to my credit card company if my Refund request gets turned down. And if my refund gets turned down from Mr. Greg Dawson, then all gloves come off. My faith in getting anything is next to zero. At least that is my gut reaction.
I would love as a buyer to receive my product and I wish Mr Sondors very good luck and I hope he gets rich selling bikes, but in truth there are only Storm clouds ahead...Hahahaha Storm Clouds...
..another indiegogo campaign....Remote control clouds with fake lighting as a drone one can fly around via IPAD.....
I would love as a buyer to receive my product and I wish Mr Sondors very good luck and I hope he gets rich selling bikes, but in truth there are only Storm clouds ahead...Hahahaha Storm Clouds...
..another indiegogo campaign....Remote control clouds with fake lighting as a drone one can fly around via IPAD.....
Credible Hulk
Active Member
very well put FTC. And thank you. I have will think about a charge back to my credit card company if my Refund request gets turned down. And if my refund gets turned down from Mr. Greg Dawson, then all gloves come off. My faith in getting anything is next to zero. At least that is my gut reaction.
I would love as a buyer to receive my product and I wish Mr Sondors very good luck and I hope he gets rich selling bikes, but in truth there are only Storm clouds ahead...Hahahaha Storm Clouds...
First of all, call your credit card company first thing Monday morning. Most of them only allow chargebacks up to 90 days after the transaction, some allow less time than that. At least you'll know how much time you have, in case you get stonewalled by Dawson et al. If you used Paypal, go through them instead/first. I've read several people's accounts of receiving immediate refunds via Paypal.
Speaking of Greg Dawson, I'm curious to know who he is, what his role is, and how people are getting his contact info. I checked both IGG and GoSondors, nothing. Google didn't turn up much either - other than a rather ironic listing of a gentleman who is a well-known consumer reporter for a newspaper. I'd like to cc Mr. Dawson on my next email reply to "Nick GoSondors Zendesk" (their hired PR guns, likely based in Asia). Of course he may already be aware of my request.
I'm still getting a barrage of lies and claims that everything is on schedule. It's like being told repeatedly that Santa Claus and his eight tiny reindeer will be coming down my chimney tomorrow morning. It ain't Christmas Eve, and my apartment building has no chimney.
Re gloves coming off. I suspect there will soon be a seismic wave of gloves hitting the floor, all over the world. The more plastic box pic "updates", excuses, cash grabs, and delays, the more likely this will happen. Look for this by the end of June when nothing continues to materialize on the factory floor. It's only a matter of time before a certain party absconds with customers' funds, if he hasn't done so already.
wa5
Well-Known Member
Credible Hulk, I think you are probably correct in saying the turning point in this campaign will be end of June, I thought it might be end of May, but we are already there and theres simply not enough heat yet to start the inevitable fire.
I cannot understand why Storm wouldn't show production, surely he cant be so divorced from whats going on that he isn't aware of the unrest. His PR guy would surely be keeping him abreast of the situation if here were any good.
Even some of his devotees that are in contact with the big man must be begging him for pictures / proof, even if they only want it to shove it down my throat.
I'm betting the next "real" update will be a whole lot of bikes... already packed in their non descript boxes .
I cannot understand why Storm wouldn't show production, surely he cant be so divorced from whats going on that he isn't aware of the unrest. His PR guy would surely be keeping him abreast of the situation if here were any good.
Even some of his devotees that are in contact with the big man must be begging him for pictures / proof, even if they only want it to shove it down my throat.
I'm betting the next "real" update will be a whole lot of bikes... already packed in their non descript boxes
.
FTC Complaint
Active Member
http://www.specpr.com
The fellow also has Facebook and Twitter accounts.
The next court date is 7/28/2015; If you think about it both "bike buyers," the OEM manufacturer, UPS, Dawson, lawyers, and Agency 2.0 are creditors!
1) Who has the assets IGG, Paypal, or Storm?
2) Who gets paid first?
3) Is there enough money to go around?
The business structure is a "Fur-ball;" There is no disclosure as to where the remaining money resides.
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wa5
Well-Known Member
George S.
Well-Known Member
Credible Hulk
Active Member
I'm glad to see that we're at least not having our intelligence insulted with more baloney bento box pics. Those rims do look like the actual rims for the Sondors ebike, to my untrained eye. I look forward to seeing if we'll get pics of more bike parts that are specific to the Sondors, or endless pics of the same rims or other generic parts that could belong to any bike.
I will give them a conditional thumbs up, for now.
I will give them a conditional thumbs up, for now.
A
Anomander Rake
Guest
I'll cook up my own crow. Found a dead crow in my backyard, slightly munched on by the locals puppies.....Their doggies spittle will add favor....Just got to make up my mind, fried crow or boiled crow and need to add a side dish of eat my words....Those pictures look great, nothing like a good lightening Storm to lighten the mood....
A
Anomander Rake
Guest
I'm glad to see that we're at least not having our intelligence insulted with more baloney bento box pics. Those rims do look like the actual rims for the Sondors ebike, to my untrained eye. I look forward to seeing if we'll get pics of more bike parts that are specific to the Sondors, or endless pics of the same rims or other generic parts that could belong to any bike.
I will give them a conditional thumbs up, for now.
Nice shipping box and parts seem to be legit. Wonder why it took so long. Nothing like stirring up the people with Storm clouds of questions....
He has only posted 2 comments total. Better than nothing...
JRA
Well-Known Member
1,000 wheels down, 13,000 to go. Glad to see they stuck with the suspension holes.
To me it has never been about if Sondors could re-produce the campaign bike en masse, but what how well the bikes will ultimately perform as per the campaign story facts and the sustainability of the company business model. Time will tell.
To me it has never been about if Sondors could re-produce the campaign bike en masse, but what how well the bikes will ultimately perform as per the campaign story facts and the sustainability of the company business model. Time will tell.
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