Sondors Fact Finding. Due Diligence. Scrutiny.
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Anomander Rake
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stevenast
Well-Known Member
Too soon to be serving crow! Please keep it on the back burner until bike number 7000 is delivered with performance as promised!
The analysis on this thread alone shows the campaign doesn't have the money to deliver that promise.
wa5
Well-Known Member
Get the black and decker out buddy and start adding some speed holesGuess I had better lose a little weight then, put on a few this winter...
Might want to dose up on some scotch first, it might sting just a bit.
George S.
Well-Known Member
The real questions are never going to go away. The number one rule of customer service is to get out front on every issue. They still seem to be demanding complete loyalty.
There's no way this works out unless Storm and Chris are committed to it, and then there might be a company or brand after this is over.
It's sad to see Bruce taking these incredibly cheap shots at EBR. On the other hand, the review and information sites have just ignored this whole CF thing. It would have been better if someone had been asking, and Storm had been answering, the tough questions, all along. Ebikes are a world entirely defined by PR campaigns. There is very little objective work, very little exploration of anything that might be called 'truth'. There are massive problems with ebike regs. But the industry doesn't consult anyone, as it tries to sort this out. Certainly 6,000 Sondo bikes is a threat to the industry, but the company looks doomed with no management, whatever happens with the CF.
So Bruce, if it is such a great idea, and if Sondo is such a brilliant businessman, let's just see you prove it. Deliver these bikes and take over the ebike space. Then it will be easy to respect what you say. Right now, it's a big, big bag of unknowns. I wish you all the luck in the world, but when every partner in this thing has parted ways, it's not a good sign. Maybe you should run the company, if you are that dedicated.
Also, was it really Storm yesterday, or some guy in a little cubicle in Pasadena, typing into his Palm Pilot?
Chris and Storm don't seem to be getting along. No one knows where all the money is. No one knows what the real costs are now.
There's no way this works out unless Storm and Chris are committed to it, and then there might be a company or brand after this is over.
It's sad to see Bruce taking these incredibly cheap shots at EBR. On the other hand, the review and information sites have just ignored this whole CF thing. It would have been better if someone had been asking, and Storm had been answering, the tough questions, all along. Ebikes are a world entirely defined by PR campaigns. There is very little objective work, very little exploration of anything that might be called 'truth'. There are massive problems with ebike regs. But the industry doesn't consult anyone, as it tries to sort this out. Certainly 6,000 Sondo bikes is a threat to the industry, but the company looks doomed with no management, whatever happens with the CF.
So Bruce, if it is such a great idea, and if Sondo is such a brilliant businessman, let's just see you prove it. Deliver these bikes and take over the ebike space. Then it will be easy to respect what you say. Right now, it's a big, big bag of unknowns. I wish you all the luck in the world, but when every partner in this thing has parted ways, it's not a good sign. Maybe you should run the company, if you are that dedicated.
Also, was it really Storm yesterday, or some guy in a little cubicle in Pasadena, typing into his Palm Pilot?
Chris and Storm don't seem to be getting along. No one knows where all the money is. No one knows what the real costs are now.
Ann M.
Well-Known Member
In case folks were wondering, here's the BC comment that George is referring to. Given that the very professional marketing done by A2.0, it is not surprising that a steady stream of video & pics are lacking; that was their specialty, so now Sonders is wobbling on the PR side.
Ann M.
Well-Known Member
Ahem, @Chris Roser that looks more like the universally disliked and common Grackle (not a boat tail variety). If anyone were eating crow, that plate would have to be a whole lot bigger
...
A
Anomander Rake
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Dummy Down Campaign of the Closed minded facebook Sondors crew sought to create havoc and wreck the Sondors IGG Campaign. Their horrible presence only attempting to destroy Sondors E-bike by mass trolling and spamming war. People asked questions and wanted answers and more information since nothing was being released from the Sondors camp and still isn't. Many questions remain unanswered. Too many. It became very obvious that that failed Sondors Dummy down campaign was an utter failure and Greg Dawson from Spec PR finally stop it as it was doing no one absolutely any good. Nothing was being accomplished. EPIC FAIL....
Smarten Up Campaign of the Open Sondors group only sought clarification and further knowledge from a campaign rife with a total lack of knowledge or mis-information. I wish to thank all those who valiantly tried to get some answers and obviously Greg Dawson Agreed and he put a stop to the Closed minded Facebook group. We have won a very small victory since we at least got Mr.Stormy Sondors to finally release some more photos and finally some videos. Those same videos people have been valiantly trying to get for a very long time. Congrats guys, it was a not so great war on closed mind people who only goal was to shut us up and we did not allow that. To Truth Justice and more transperecy and more importantly Accountability.
Electric Bike Review is here is have an open and honest communication forum, unlike IGG and the closed minded Sondors facebook group. I wish to thank EBR for making this possible and Court and Ann for their excellent Moderation....
Cheers and have a great day.
Very well said. could not have said it any better....Cheers, made me smile...Now I have got a couple of smile creases on my old face..
Smarten Up Campaign of the Open Sondors group only sought clarification and further knowledge from a campaign rife with a total lack of knowledge or mis-information. I wish to thank all those who valiantly tried to get some answers and obviously Greg Dawson Agreed and he put a stop to the Closed minded Facebook group. We have won a very small victory since we at least got Mr.Stormy Sondors to finally release some more photos and finally some videos. Those same videos people have been valiantly trying to get for a very long time. Congrats guys, it was a not so great war on closed mind people who only goal was to shut us up and we did not allow that. To Truth Justice and more transperecy and more importantly Accountability.
Electric Bike Review is here is have an open and honest communication forum, unlike IGG and the closed minded Sondors facebook group. I wish to thank EBR for making this possible and Court and Ann for their excellent Moderation....
Cheers and have a great day.
Ahem, @Chris Roser that looks more like the universally disliked and common Grackle (not a boat tail variety). If anyone were eating crow, that plate would have to be a whole lot bigger
Very well said. could not have said it any better....Cheers, made me smile...Now I have got a couple of smile creases on my old face..
Ann M.
Well-Known Member
Went over the Sonders IGG site, facebook page, etc. And lots of energy is put towards describing the battery, but not the motor. Found one image that has manufacturer's info on it; can't quite get it clear enough; however, having seen 8 Fun's logo on many ebikes we've sold, this is not the Bafang/8 Fun symbol. As for the Battery, someone referred to it as a 'Samsung battery' which is not. It has Samsung cells in it, but Samsung didn't build it or use their BMS or do the soldering to make the packs, so be cautious in the references to the pack. Using the brand name Samsung connotes a certain implied quality that is not verified for the Sonder's Ebike
A
Anomander Rake
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There is an old saying, ANN, if it is too good to be true then likely it is. Sometimes a Great deal is just throwing money away. This campaign has no Accountability. Neither Greg Dawson nor Ivars "Storm Sondors is answering any questions. After a spate with the sondors closed minded facebook group Finally some videos have appeared, wonder why it took so long. Verifiable information is very hard to get. I asked Mr. Greg Dawson numerous questions at gosondors, since he has taken over from Agency 2.0 and he does not appear interested in answering them. I suspect he is just stonewalling us with both answers to the refund question until it becomes impossible for people to apply for charge backs and the time period to apply has expired.
Seems very strange that the GOSONDORS.com web site says Buy here and then sends people to Indiegogo. Seems strange when it says refunds are available then states they are not because INDIEGOGO deny's all refund requests. Seems strange why Greg Dawson and or the Sondors team is being deliberately vague or choose to ignore many requests for better answers, more answers and accountability.
Plenty of Storm clouds on the horizon, the main event is about to happen when people finds problems with there purchase, find zero support, no answers or spare parts. Zero warranty, no refunds, expensive shipping. I suppose with we get our bikes, if we gets our bikes, UPS will also charge us....especially us Canadians...The IGG campaign gets browner and browner everytime I think about it, got to go...the toilet is calling me...time to get rid of some brown stuff....just like the Indiegogo campaign the brown stuff keeps accumulating...
Seems very strange that the GOSONDORS.com web site says Buy here and then sends people to Indiegogo. Seems strange when it says refunds are available then states they are not because INDIEGOGO deny's all refund requests. Seems strange why Greg Dawson and or the Sondors team is being deliberately vague or choose to ignore many requests for better answers, more answers and accountability.
Plenty of Storm clouds on the horizon, the main event is about to happen when people finds problems with there purchase, find zero support, no answers or spare parts. Zero warranty, no refunds, expensive shipping. I suppose with we get our bikes, if we gets our bikes, UPS will also charge us....especially us Canadians...The IGG campaign gets browner and browner everytime I think about it, got to go...the toilet is calling me...time to get rid of some brown stuff....just like the Indiegogo campaign the brown stuff keeps accumulating...
George S.
Well-Known Member
Well, Bruce C. is saying it absolutely is a latest version Bafang. We're back in speculation mode. The real question is whether they can get into a management profile where these endless interpersonal squabbles can end.
I can wait another week or two. Bruce offered @wa5 some fairly civil advice, to just cool it and wait for the bikes. It's not an unreasonable position, to just back off a little and see if any of the smoke clears.
PowerMe
Well-Known Member
That's been my opinion from the beginning. The bike cannot be fully evaluated (or evaluated really much at all except on paper) until such bike is in one's hands and one can put it through whatever paces are desired.
No one worries whether other CF peeps who solicit funding become companies or create ongoing entities beyond the thing they are either creating or trying to fund, so I don't know why it matters what Storm does after he delivers all the ebikes he is supposed to deliver. Yeah, yeah, worries about support, product liability, etc, etc. Whatever. I believe Sonders is being held to a different standard than other CF campaigns. He's on the hook to deliver working eBikes to everyone who contributed to the campaign to the level to get 1 or more said bikes, he is not on the hook to prove to anyone that he can run a company or develop more products or build an executive team. That anyone would expect such a thing to occur or hold him accountable for anything beyond delivering ebikes to their owners, is a head-scratcher.
stevenast
Well-Known Member
I went to the indiegogo site. On the "story" page it says "click here for a manufacturing update"
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/sondors-electric-bike#description
When I click there, it leads to the home "give us money" page.
The way the campaign is being run, I don't think they have earned patience.
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/sondors-electric-bike#description
When I click there, it leads to the home "give us money" page.
The way the campaign is being run, I don't think they have earned patience.
FTC Complaint
Active Member
In the latest video it looks like cables are being run around the outside of the box, as opposed to within the frame.
They are using a Generic type of controller (illustrative picture here)
Note: Bafang will sell you a nice controller with all the wiring color codded and plug and play. This is one of the areas where you want both quality and aftermarket support,
Low volume; the "factory" looked like it was engaged in a low volume assembly of bikes. The legal documents suggest 10,000 bikes sold.
They are using a Generic type of controller (illustrative picture here)
Note: Bafang will sell you a nice controller with all the wiring color codded and plug and play. This is one of the areas where you want both quality and aftermarket support,
Low volume; the "factory" looked like it was engaged in a low volume assembly of bikes. The legal documents suggest 10,000 bikes sold.
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George S.
Well-Known Member
@PowerMe " he is not on the hook to prove to anyone that he can run a company or develop more products or build an executive team."
I don't know what motivates him, but the drama among the partners has not been healthy. They still have obligations. If the product is any good, the rights to it have value. The videos are interesting. Storm may be good at production, working in China, but what are his skills at everything else? They had a team. What happened?
I don't know what motivates him, but the drama among the partners has not been healthy. They still have obligations. If the product is any good, the rights to it have value. The videos are interesting. Storm may be good at production, working in China, but what are his skills at everything else? They had a team. What happened?
A
Anomander Rake
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I was reading Bruce C.'s comments on IGG comments page. Seems he has alot of affection for one of our MODS....
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Brambor
Well-Known Member
Maybe the drama was all here in the states and he is just traipsing all over china focusing on getting the actual job done as opposed to talking too much to everyone here.
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