Sondors Fact Finding. Due Diligence. Scrutiny.

I apologise for the bother, I think we are all aware of the recent change in refund conditions IE no refunds
QUOTE
Can I get a refund?

According to Indiegogo, contributions are non-refundable in their Terms of Use. There will be no refunds as all funds go immediately to
manufacturing.
END QU?OTE.
I was quite excited when I read Chris Rosers' post, I thought, given his very close ties, he must have known something the rest of us didn't, after all, members of the owners club have been boasting that information goes to them first. . and as I said, Chris spoke with such authority that I simply assumed he knew what he was talking about... stating that he was a member of staff was just a guess on my part, again, the authority with which he spoke made me assume.

Sorry I got it so wrong.
 
Back to the topic...

I just received the following information from Nick at GoSondors, in response to my request for a refund. I mentioned several issues of concern in my request, including the disappearing guarantee about the shipping fees.

"The shipping price is currently at $194 for U.S. shipping and $247 for international shipping and may go up in the future do to new Lithium Battery shipping regulations that happened after the initial shipping cost was calculated. The new regulations are out of our control. There was no threat, just poor wording. Basically, all funds needed to be paid so we could continue to keep everything on track, which it still is."

So expect another email demanding more money immediately, and threatening to send you nothing unless you comply.
 
Credible Hulk said:
How does any of this bickering (this and several posts before it) relate to the topic of this thread? Please enlighten us.
Your speculation about people's identities in different websites is irrelevant, violates privacy and borders on trolling.
Click to expand...

My question is directly related to content being posted here in EBR. I'm trying to follow along and determine who is who, only based on what has been posted and mentioned on EBR.
 
Credible Hulk said:
Back to the topic...

I just received the following information from Nick at GoSondors, in response to my request for a refund. I mentioned several issues of concern in my request, including the disappearing guarantee about the shipping fees.

"The shipping price is currently at $194 for U.S. shipping and $247 for international shipping and may go up in the future do to new Lithium Battery shipping regulations that happened after the initial shipping cost was calculated. The new regulations are out of our control. There was no threat, just poor wording. Basically, all funds needed to be paid so we could continue to keep everything on track, which it still is."

So expect another email demanding more money immediately, and threatening to send you nothing unless you comply.
Click to expand...

Shipping, and certifying lithium batteries for the same purpose, was one of the many business issues and concerns.

I think this is the basis for demanding a refund from your credit card companies, via email to [email protected], In writing-certified to Sondors (via his attorney), and from Indiegogo.

Storm I. Sondors
c/o Kent M. Walker
Lewis Kohn and Walker LLP
15030 Avenue of Science, Suite 201
San Diego, CA 92128​

It would be good if the attorneys address found its way to IGG message board.

{When I was younger a fellow said to me "Speak to the issue, not the person," that proved to be good advice over a long career. I am throwing "hints" like "bricks" here!}
 
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So a quick question, what happened to the promise of LOWER shipping costs if people promoted the Sondors e-bike?

I personally helped and now the whole issue has magically disappeared. We were told that helping with sales lowered our shipping costs to the point where the ship will be free depending on the level of support/help a person has given. Now that is absolutely nowhere to be seen. hmmmmmmmmmmmmm
 
Anomander Rake said:
So a quick question, what happened to the promise of LOWER shipping costs if people promoted the Sondors e-bike?
Click to expand...

Well that could be a unilateral change to a contract.. So when you send IGG, the PR firm, or Storm via his attorney a letter asking for a refund you might say;

"I was promised shipping at actual cost, with the amount specified for shipping on your website being an upper limit to that amount. I understand now, due to revisions on your website, that the terms and conditions of the offering have changed without my consent or notice. I therefore request a refund in full. It is unreasonable to expect that the terms of an offering can be unilaterally changed without either notice or acceptance."
 
CAN anybody find on the web where and how much these new regulations have been changed and by how much and when these REGS where changed????????
 
Anomander Rake said:
So a quick question, what happened to the promise of LOWER shipping costs if people promoted the Sondors e-bike?

I personally helped and now the whole issue has magically disappeared. We were told that helping with sales lowered our shipping costs to the point where the ship will be free depending on the level of support/help a person has given. Now that is absolutely nowhere to be seen. hmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Click to expand...

The quick answer is that it magically disappeared.
The longer answer is that magic has nothing to do with it. Still to this day, lies are posted on the Sondors campaign like 50 mile range & 90 minute charge.
I suppose you could charge it for 90 minutes followed by peddling for 46 miles then go peddle free for the last 4 miles. :oops:
 
Anomander Rake said:
CAN anybody find on the web where and how much these new regulations have been changed and by how much and when these REGS where changed????????
Click to expand...

As recently as a few days ago Airlines are now-just refusing to carry these batteries; the regulations have been in place for a longtime they are UN regulations and testing requirements. No surprises here, nothing has really changed!

We hope these actions will encourage other airlines to follow suit and discontinue the bulk shipment of lithium batteries," said the Air Line Pilots Association. The union has been pressing U.S. regulators and international aviation authorities to ban the shipments.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...ship-rechargeable-batteries-article-1.2138255
 
Anomander Rake said:
CAN anybody find on the web where and how much these new regulations have been changed and by how much and when these REGS where changed????????
Click to expand...

This happened on July 31, 2014...

The final rule will:

  • Enhance packaging and hazard communication requirements for lithium batteries transported by air;
  • Replace equivalent lithium content with Watt-hours for lithium ion cells and batteries;
  • Adopt separate shipping descriptions for lithium metal batteries and lithium ion batteries;
  • Revise provisions for the transport of small and medium lithium cells and batteries including cells and batteries packed with, or contained in, equipment;
  • Revise the requirements for the transport of lithium batteries for disposal or recycling;
  • Harmonize the provisions for the transport of low production and prototype lithium cells and batteries with the ICAO Technical Instructions and the International Maritime Dangerous Goods Code; and
  • Adopt new provisions for the transport of damaged, defective, and recalled lithium batteries.
- See more at: (Link Removed - No Longer Exists)
 
Hurley said:
This happened on July 31, 2014...

The final rule will:

  • Enhance packaging and hazard communication requirements for lithium batteries transported by air;
  • Replace equivalent lithium content with Watt-hours for lithium ion cells and batteries;
  • Adopt separate shipping descriptions for lithium metal batteries and lithium ion batteries;
  • Revise provisions for the transport of small and medium lithium cells and batteries including cells and batteries packed with, or contained in, equipment;
  • Revise the requirements for the transport of lithium batteries for disposal or recycling;
  • Harmonize the provisions for the transport of low production and prototype lithium cells and batteries with the ICAO Technical Instructions and the International Maritime Dangerous Goods Code; and
  • Adopt new provisions for the transport of damaged, defective, and recalled lithium batteries.
- See more at: (Link Removed - No Longer Exists)
Click to expand...

Here is a "random" independent-testing service (testing is about $30,000 to $40,000, last time I checked - with a different vendor than the one illustrated)

This was/should have been known at the time offering,

http://www.intertek.com/energy-storage/un-transportation-testing/
http://www.iata.org/whatwedo/cargo/dgr/Documents/lithium-battery-guidance-document-2015-en.pdf

The US has been totally reliant on UN International Standards, they are just formally harmonizing to regulations already in use, if Sondors is telling you something changed you have been lied to.

Batteries need to be tested in parts (or cells) and each time they are configured into pack. A pack needs its own testing regime.
 
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Ok, so this is a non-issue and it should not effect our shipping costs.

Still wondering what happened to our shipping rebate when we promoted the sondors bike???

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Nick Go Sondors Zendesk (Go Sondors)

May 22, 11:21

Hi David - This is Greg. The referral refunds are still going to happen. It something that we took over from Agency 2.0 and are currently trying to work out. Either way, you'll get your refund if you have referrals. Simply just send a screen shot of your referrals.

The shipping as of now is the same as it is on the campaign page.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I went to the rewards page and tried to click on the links provided and they did not work for me. I know positively that I referred this campaign.

Also regarding the shipping, It is the same, as of now...he does not state if anything will change in the very near future.
 
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Regarding the 2 Options mentioned in a previous update.

Fenders
Big Screen Monitor...:p

I have heard nothing again about our 2 options previously mentioned. Nothing about if they are going to be installed, cost, shipping etc.

See right at this point he has a very good chance of selling more stuff if he were to jump on this asap.

Here is how I do do this..

First List all the options.
Second Price them.
Third Shipping if not factory installed.

There is a huge list of options Sondors could sell us Suckers....:p...Joke...:p

Fenders and Monitors are just the tip of the ice berg. He is in China already and the amount of stuff he can actually sell us is absolutely HUGE. He has an established customer base already why in heavens is HIS team not taking advantage of this to UP-SELL us?

He has a CAPTURED audience and client based established so for petes sake, who is there main salesperson? He/she should be fully communicating what can be purchased as add-ons to our bikes.

The list of Installable and or pre-installed items could very easily top the cost of the bikes themselves.

I would like Greg Dawson to address this issue directly here....Best case scenario. Mr. Dawson is one of the lead personnel leading this campaign as far as I know.

I am going to be mailing him to make a few suggestions...

I know that people will hesitate regard funding more monies and our accessories could come on the second WAVE once the initial batch is delivered...

Any thoughts?
 
He has just as good a chance at selling additional items once people receive their bikes too (assuming people do receive their bikes). Nothing like wanting to buy more accessories for your new fun toy once said toy is in hand (I speak of experience here as I just pulled the trigger on a new Brooks saddle, after upgrading my pedals a couple weeks ago on my new EVO Street ebike)
 
I sure dont think that kind of B/S would happen. Especially since so Much credit is due to so many people. I asked Greg Dawson and he mentioned I/we would have to send by email a Screen capture from our rewards page to claim the credit previously promised. I went to my rewards page and the links on that page did not work for me. Broken....? But what a headache/nightmare if each person had to send Greg Dawson a screen shot. Very strange comment.

I sure hope they don't hold this up because shipping cost have increased then what they say on their page is false and previous statements indicate that the amount less rewards is what we pay. I bet some people would not have to pay any shipping costs. Forgot to mention that the shipping price was at it's Greatest price and because of volume it will be greatly less if a deal with UPS goes through properly and then we MIGHT pay less and even less still with reward program.

QUESTION....

I think I have read that on a hot day the battery need to be cool to work better. So is this bread box between our legs better or worse for performance and durability?
 
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Chris Roser said:
Apologies for my improper imposition of your instead of you're...
Click to expand...
Hi @Chris Roser please do not use real life names here unless you are representing yourself or have express written permission from a member. We want this space to feel safe and to avoid any real life ramifications of discussion on ebikes and crowdfunding etc. Also, please follow the opening post of this thread for sharing facts, citing evidence, avoiding personal attacks etc. here are some general rules to follow on the forums as well please. I realize this thread is overgrown and not everyone has followed the rules. There will be a lot of cleaning happening here soon. Please edit or remove your posts above to follow the rules.
 
Court said:
Hi @Chris Roser please do not use real life names here unless you are representing yourself or have express written permission from a member. We want this space to feel safe and to avoid any real life ramifications of discussion on ebikes and crowdfunding etc. Also, please follow the opening post of this thread for sharing facts, citing evidence, avoiding personal attacks etc. here are some general rules to follow on the forums as well please. I realize this thread is overgrown and not everyone has followed the rules. There will be a lot of cleaning happening here soon. Please edit or remove your posts above to follow the rules.
Click to expand...
http://gosondors.com
Scroll to refunds.

I'd still like to see other post scrubbed for names.
Good for the goose is good for the gander.
That is unless I am being arbitrarily and capriciously being single out which is how it seems to me.
 
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