Sondors Fact Finding. Due Diligence. Scrutiny.

[J.R.]

Am I the only one who's starting to suspect that there's an underlying agenda to all these plastic baloney sandwich box pics? After all, Ivars has made a sort of career out of designing and selling his designs for plastic gewgaws (like Happy Meal toys) in the past. Maybe the real reason he's in China is to promote his baloney box design to Chinese ebike manufacturers, and profit by collecting royalties on each ebike manufactured using his design?

In which case, why even bother building ebikes at a loss, then dealing with customer complaints afterwards, when you can fleece the backers and use their money to develop and sell your baloney box instead of building the ebikes you sold? That would explain all the months of nothing but baloney box pics, and only two prototype ebikes reused for different shots.

Not only the rip-off as Paul noted, you are talking about a single party communist state! You can buy anything they make or get something made, but selling them your "design" is a different thing altogether. They don't have a problem copying a Bentley, they won't have a problem copying a lunchbox.

 

[FTC Complaint]

Am I the only one who's starting to suspect that there's an underlying agenda to all these plastic baloney sandwich box pics?

The only "utility" the box provides; is marketing, but on the positive side, it is the only design feature that is "not part of a standard Chinese ebike," as it adds cost without function. No, Sondors is not the only person to put batteries in a triangle box (or bag) within the frame.

BUT, he is the first person to put a battery box in a box which resides in the triangle-box, within the frame. "Think left and think right and think low and think high. Oh, the thinks you can think up if only you try!" Dr Seuss; oh my!

You could run your wires through the box, instead of the frame, thereby making a product of even lesser quality that the standard Chinese Ebike.

From a US perspective has the inner battery box been tested as required, has the outer box been made of materials that won't contribute to a fire or be flammable, that won't contain an explosion, and will dissipate rather than retain heat?

Has the battery been tested to safety and transportation standards? Hast the bike had any independent testing?

Once again, does the company have product liability insurance; or a business plan, or external capital so it will have continuity, or a customer support infrastructure? Or even; does it pay its bills?

I guess I am "trolling," per the one too many screws loose Bloke Bubba Choke.

 

[EULITTLB]

It will take just one person to have an accident with the battery, on the bike whatever and the Sondors bike will be finished - on the assumption it ever starts that is - all IMHO.

I just wanted to mention the conduct of someone on the IGG comments page, who falsely accuses others of being trolls because they disagree with him and is now repeatedly spamming the same message below to prevent users such as myself and many others from discussing the Ivars Sondors Campaign.

@Bruce Choate would simply not dare conduct himself like an infantile child on here or Endless Sphere because he would rightly get banned immediately, sorry @Court and @Ann M. if this is off-topic, but this topic brings out a nasty streak in some people and you should be aware of their conduct on other forums and that of @biknut and the abuse he dishes out to people, hence the resentment of both which is sometimes expressed here.

Bruce Choate
less than a minute ago
The comment board has become useless, nobody affiliated with the campaign reads or post here any longer due to the excessive spamming by the TROLLs. The update section has all the latest info.
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Please direct all Support Questions and Concerns to [email protected]
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Greg Dawson confirmed in a reply
If you purchased the extra battery at the $179 special that included shipping cost, you only need to pay the $50 for all new $247 battery purchases.

 

[FTC Complaint]

It will take just one person to have an accident with the battery, on the bike whatever and the Sondors bike will be finished

With 10,000 bikes; and the conduct of the campaign; I am certain that there will me a major issue (accident, fire, explosion, injury, death), and there will be no recourse as Storm will be insolvent and "immune to lawsuits."

The fly-kly (with a small number of units sold) is a more considered product, has MUCH better engineering, and even that has some serious issues as expressed on Kickstarter.

 

[scmike]

According to Chris 2.0, Sondors was insolvent when he began this campaign,and he may be insolvent when it is all over.. He'll be thinking... so sue me... and thanks for the memories... I think I'll just stay here in China... with all my yellow lunch boxes and my yellow bike... what else do I need...

 

[EULITTLB]

@mike bombardieri, call me a cynic, for this and other reasons I think the legal action by Agency 2.0 may be purposeful, part of "the plan."

 

[FTC Complaint]

He'll be thinking... so sue me... and thanks for the memories...

Yep... That is what the Toyjobs fraud judgement speaks to; as reinforced by the A2.0 lawsuit against Sondors for fraud-non-payment; and you have proof that I Storm Sondors is "Judgement Proof." Here is a good video that explains it;

http://www.richardsonlawoffices.com/faqs/what-does-it-mean-to-be-judgment-proof.cfm

 

[Credible Hulk]

He may be judgement proof but he's not immune to criminal charges or extradition treaties. I just got off the phone with my credit card provider's security department. They are based in the US and were already familiar with Ivars' little scheme. The cc guy suggested filing a consumer complaint with the California Attorney General's office since "Pacific Storm" is based there.

FYI for anyone contemplating action. Here were the steps he suggested for anyone who wants to chargeback or take other action to get a refund:

1. Contact Ivars/Storm/IGG/etc. directly and request a refund. If no response in 7 days, make one more attempt. Document everything.

2. If no satisfactory response, initiate a chargeback with your credit card company. NOTE: check with your credit card provider NOW about their cutoff date for chargebacks. In my case I have until mid-June.

3. If chargeback is unsuccessful, contact local law enforcement and US authorities to initiate a consumer fraud investigation.

I was told that the best way to approach any consumer complaint is to claim "goods paid for but not provided as/when promised". That covers an unsafe/illegal item arriving at your door, as well as the grossly inflated specs. Since this is through IGG with their TOS and "backer vs. customer" nonsense, I was warned that may complicate matters.

Also - going forward, especially if Ivars loses the Agency case, he could easily end up in prison for contempt of court and evading/obstructing justice. It's well known he's collected over $ 5 million, and a judge will ask "so why isn't he able to pay his outstanding judgment(s)?" In the Toyjobs case he was caught stashing his funds in a girlfriend's personal bank account to avoid payment. That's probably where the bulk of that $ 5 mil is now. But - it's one thing to pull a fast one on a company, quite another if several thousand customers get screwed, or someone gets hurt, and it hits the news.

 

[scmike]

Meanwhile, over at the IGG... one slips through every once in a while...
Zeke McFarland
7 hours ago
I’m excited about the recent update on the yellow battery box… When is the next yellow battery-box update due?

 

[Credible Hulk]

Meanwhile, over at the IGG... one slips through every once in a while...
Zeke McFarland
7 hours ago
I’m excited about the recent update on the yellow battery box… When is the next yellow battery-box update due?

Zeke McFarland just hit the nail straight on the head. Poor "insurance.guy" must be crapping a yellow plastic brick right now. Ivars will dock him a week's non-pay for this.

 

[EULITTLB]

@Credible Hulk thanks for the post above about chargebacks which ai have copied for others on my FB page, trust you don't mind.

On another note, Bruce Choate promoted himself as an expert ebike reviewer who together with Court (Rye) will review the Ivars bike if and when it arrives and I must wait for his assessment before I can deduce anything about the bike at all. I cannot for the life of me understand how or why a cheaply-built entry-level bike has such ardent defenders whose conduct and abuse of others is despicable - they wouldn't dare come on here or ES and conducted themselves as they do elsewhere.

 

[FTC Complaint]

I am now limited to one comment per day it seems, IGG and others are complicit in this whole deception, I really hope it blows up in their faces personally...... And I am not talking about the battery which charges in 90 minutes either.

You are trying to communicate on assets owned by IGG, it was clear to me that IGG considers the fund-raiser to be their customer. It is also clear that the IGG puts the consumer (the party providing all the money to them) at a total disadvantage by design, as it unfairly reaps riskless revenue from them. (the customer is a tool to IGG, nothing more.)

The platform and their customer (Sondors), refuse to answer any questions that were raised during the campaign, even by the press. IGG will not take any responsibility unless they are forced to do so some time in the future.

They are helping you and hurting themselves by banning you, or restricting your posts as they have done (and allowed BC to do).

The Solution is DO NOT USE THE IGG PLATFORM, there is no point in you posting there. Do not buy ebikes and other products from the IGG platform; EVER!

If you purchased a bike, or other product on IGG, LET YOUR MONEY SPEAK FOR YOU, in other words ask for a refund.

File complaints against Storm, and IGG with CA AG's office.

IGG may have a major problem on its hands, should it continue to conduct its business to the disadvantage of its project funding customers.

http://www.crowdfundinsider.com/201...n-after-some-authenticity-questions-surfaced/

Why didn't IGG run a credit report on Sondors before they let him use the IGG platform to take $5m from other people? Seems like a basic type of diligence they could have done, were they interested in doing so. Stay away from IGG folks; ask for your money back.

 

[scmike]

FTC, "Indiegogo’s Trust and Safety Team" must be taking this campaign off...

 

[JoePah]

What's so satisfying is that Sondors has out sold everyone on this website and on the Endless Sphere website, in just a couple of months. Those people are toiling in obscurity selling $30 bits and pieces to support themselves.. . Storm comes in and $5.7M later has an actually list of buyers that these people will never reach.

People with low self esteem have difficulty dealing with success by others, so they naturally have to be very petty.. If you don't have talent, what other recourse is there.

Personally I applaud those who take a risk and strike out on their own.. Storm may succeed he may fail, but he has the guts to not follow the crowd... That is what real men (and women) are made of.

 

[FTC Complaint]

If you don't have talent

The only talent Sondors has is "to experience the effect of an errant (and then retracted) Yahoo Technology article that went viral and fed on the ignorant;" thanks to an unscrupulous but effective Advertising Agency A2.0; Sondors then decided not to pay A2.0 as is his general modus operandi as a deadbeat. And he also designed a useless yellow box.

"Party on Dude!, Excellent!" Bill Storm and Ted, at Excellent Adventures Inc.

 

[EULITTLB]

What's so satisfying is that Sondors has out sold everyone on this website and on the Endless Sphere website, in just a couple of months. Those people are toiling in obscurity selling $30 bits and pieces to support themselves.. . Storm comes in and $5.7M later has an actually list of buyers that these people will never reach.

People with low self esteem have difficulty dealing with success by others, so they naturally have to be very petty.. If you don't have talent, what other recourse is there.

Personally I applaud those who take a risk and strike out on their own.. Storm may succeed he may fail, but he has the guts to not follow the crowd... That is what real men (and women) are made of.

Are you serious? A guy who goes towed and has to get bailed out by a company that later sues him for £500k? With a default judgment (Thanks Bruce Choate!) for fraud - a real man?

PMSL

 

[scmike]

You have to admit this campaign has been a huge marketing success...on behalf of Sondors and IGG... P.T. Barnum would have been very impressed.. "Many people are gullible, and we can expect this to continue."

 

[PowerMe]

Why blame "the people?" How should they know if IGG did their due diligence or not? Isn't IGG responsible for something here--like ensuring their campaign creator(s) aren't crooks?

BTW, how many IGG campaigns have gone down in flames with people not getting their products...ever?

That hasn't happened yet in this campaign, btw. It might. It might not. We're still in May 2015. People who funded the campaign might get their bikes at some point (maybe within the next couple of months). I keep saying that, but no one who is negative on this campaign or on Sonderz will concede that could happen. I'm not saying it will happen. I'm saying it's not certain to me yet that it absolutely won't happen.

 

[EULITTLB]

@PowerMe , I agree, that's a fair point, but what is universally acknowledged is that the bike will not perform as advertised - the specs are thoroughly and purposefully misleading.

 

[Brambor]

as is majority of advertised products in this universe...