Sondors Fact Finding. Due Diligence. Scrutiny.

This could have been just a simple group Ebike buy.. but they chose to do it backwards... No sample bikes... get the money first... Define the specs later??? The only unique thing separating this bike from others is the triangle lunch box... which ironically may be holding up their entire production ...
 
I don't agree - cars? Where would any manufacturer make such misleading claims and not face sanction? When you are talking technical specs there is no grey area. A car does 45 mpg at 62mph/100km/h on the flat or it does not , plus or minus acceptable tolerances. More or less the same with a bike if there were an agreed set of standards - my BMW Cruise ebike has properly tested and achievable performance figures, not fgures plucked out of thin air - a manufacturer such as BMW can not afford a stain on its' Marque.
 
My eBike performs at the minimum level advertised and slightly over half the range maximum the manufacturer lists. Then again, I'm not riding on flat terrain, I'm not a skinny cyclist, and sometimes I have to use more power than just the Eco mode. The manufacturer, a very well-respected company in existence for over 100 years, doesn't mention what the conditions need to be to obtain this elusive 60 mi range, but that's what they advertise as possible.
 
mike bombardieri said:
This could have been just a simple group Ebike buy.. but they chose to do it backwards... No sample bikes... get the money first... Define the specs later??? The only unique thing separating this bike from others is the triangle lunch box... which ironically may be holding up their entire production ...
Click to expand...

How does one do a group buy without getting the $$$ upfront?
 
OK so are we now adjudging that the battery charge time to full capacity is and can be 90 minutes, and Sondors has leapfrogged companies like Bosch in terms of innovation and technology? Their massive R&D departments have been doing it all wrong?
Did I tell you the first buyer of my ebikes was the Head of electronics at Lotus F1, not a guy you can trick easily with regards spec?
 
EULITTLB said:
I don't agree - cars? Where would any manufacturer make such misleading claims and not face sanction? When you are talking technical specs there is no grey area. A car does 45 mpg at 62mph/100km/h on the flat or it does not , plus or minus acceptable tolerances. More or less the same with a bike if there were an agreed set of standards - my BMW Cruise ebike has properly tested and achievable performance figures, not fgures plucked out of thin air - a manufacturer such as BMW can not afford a stain on its' Marque.
Click to expand...

Regulated industry with companies subsidized by the US government and specific laws that affect such products. Apples/Oranges.

Are you going to ban Alibaba products from entering the US? And how is this planned? The bike is an Alibaba type. And how about other countries? Will they ban products from China and Alibaba vendors?

What about claims for other bikes, e and non-e alike? Ban all of them on CF platforms? Who will legislate this?
 
You order a small # of bikes (for a fraction of what they spent on initial ad. costs)... test them... If they are acceptable ... you are ready to go... to funding... .. the RadRover campaign did just that...minus the bogus marketing team...
 
My Hyundai Elantra overestimated their MPG. It took a class action suit to get them provide a refund program and even with the program you need to jump through several hoops to get 'DAMONEEY'


EULITTLB said:
I don't agree - cars? Where would any manufacturer make such misleading claims and not face sanction? When you are talking technical specs there is no grey area. A car does 45 mpg at 62mph/100km/h on the flat or it does not , plus or minus acceptable tolerances. More or less the same with a bike if there were an agreed set of standards - my BMW Cruise ebike has properly tested and achievable performance figures, not fgures plucked out of thin air - a manufacturer such as BMW can not afford a stain on its' Marque.
Click to expand...
 
"BTW, how many IGG campaigns have gone down in flames with people not getting their products...ever?"

Apparently lots.

Screen Shot 2015-05-14 at 10.37.20 AM.png
 
mike bombardieri said:
You order a small # of bikes (for a fraction of what they spent on initial ad. costs)... test them... If they are acceptable ... you are ready to go... to funding... .. the RadRover campaign did just that...minus the bogus marketing team...
Click to expand...

Well 1 or 2 is a small number. Demo/prototype bike day?

So the complaint is about the advertising, the advertising agency, and that a lot of $$$ was spent by the agency getting word of the campaign out?
 
it almost feels like there has to be a warning sticker on every IGG web pages :
WARNING : You could be throwing your money away! Only 10% of campaigns succeed. You could be throwing your money away! The likelihood you will get nothing for your hard earned dollars is very high! Campaings are run by inexperienced business enthusiasts. Claims are inflated to entice you to give them money.
danger-warning-sign-skull-and-crossbones-Download-Royalty-free-Vector-File-EPS-16500.jpg
 
Brambor said:
it almost feels like there has to be a warning sticker on every IGG web pages :
danger-warning-sign-skull-and-crossbones-Download-Royalty-free-Vector-File-EPS-16500.jpg
Click to expand...

The 'win' rate on an IGG campaign is near 100% as; IGG makes money near 100% of the time, or 99% of the time since on a rare recent occasion they just canceled a "too good to be true" campaign most likely in reaction to the blow-back they are getting on the Storm campaign.

We are learning how bad IGG is on EBR, because ebikes happened to gain traction on IGG, a scam ridden platform.

The correct answer to IGG, is ask for a refund on your Storm {or other ebike} purchase, and don't buy an ebike or any other product through them.

All the reasons as to why this bike is not "ready" for US markets has been explained, even if a bike is ultimately delivered to those that ordered one.

Frankly, the CA AG's office needs to look at IGG, no so much EBR and the ebike crowd. IGG is toxic to the consumer.
 
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PowerMe said:
@JRA Shouldn't the uproar be over IGG in general?
Click to expand...

At least for me that is the point. But as it happens my primary interest is in the success of e bikes in general as I believe they have merit and can be a source of relief in the grand scheme of single purpose short range transportation needs going forward. If you look at other IGG campaigns that have gone south you will find many disgruntled funders.

It is too soon to tell if the Sondors campaign will succeed beyond their obvious monetary success but to my eyes it does not appear sustainable and regardless the bikes, if provided, will not meet the expectations of their advertised values which have been discussed to distraction here and on other forums. While this may not affect a percentage of the funders, especially those that have chosen to champion the campaign, in time out of the 7000 bikes promised, if and when they are delivered there will be a percentage that are not happy with their perks. That is when the real headaches will begin for Sondors. And also for IGG as they will lose even more credibility in the crowd fund marketplace.
 
Just a sidenote, guy on IGG has just spammed this (mirroring the antics of Choate et al)

Marcel Jimenez
2 minutes ago
I respectfully requested a video of the eBike in production since Ivars Sondors is working so hard getting the first wave ready to ship in WEEKS!! He’s in China RIGHT NOW!! So, stop the childish spamming your own campaign in fear that backers who invested $6 MILLIONwill get concerned!! Just send a the video using a smartphone and PROVE TO EVERYONE that the bikes are in production and will ship SOON! If there’is no video in a few hours we’ll all know there’s a VERYSERIOUS problem!!!
 
I did follow the Pistorius case while it was being actively litigated ;), I have followed the Royal Baby news, McD's new menu, not so much. I certainly didn't ask anyone to justify anything, but I am commenting on what I find unusual/curious as what this campaign is bringing up is a whole host of things, some not even related to bikes or eBikes or any particular product. The Sonders campaign is like the Rorschach Test of nontraditional funding methods, and yes, I find a certain level of emotional investment in the campaign by people who have not contributed and are not a customer of said campaign, for whatever reason, curious.

Each funder is like a mini angel investor, with an uncertain and not-at-all guaranteed outcome, is what this all really means to be in a CF platform world. That is causing all kinds of feelings to emerge.
 
"The manufacturing process has begun". The bikes will be here before you know it...

"It's ready to change the electric bike marketplace". No one can argue with the truth of that statement.

"It's designed to be affordable, durable, economical, and fun." How can it get any better than that?

This campaign is set to be a huge success. I don't know what you guys are so concerned about.
 
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