Sondors Fact Finding. Due Diligence. Scrutiny.
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JRA
Well-Known Member
The 12ah battery I use now cuts out via the Battery Management System (BMS) @ 9.36ah. With my 5amp charger it takes about 2hrs to recharge to full capacity. In other words you will never get the full ah stated on your LiFePo4 battery due to the BMS which doesn't allow full discharge of the cells because that would reduce battery life. It is always a good idea to use a watt meter as it will tell you exactly where the battery is at. A Cycle Analyst is the creme of the crop but either the GT or Turnigy will do the job also.
George S.
Well-Known Member
I agree with this 100%. I really wish they would include a wattmeter/voltmeter and accumulating amp hour meter with every display. Wiring a CA may be easier because it uses a remote shunt. It might be a pain to run the GT or Turnigy through the wiring that exists, and it might void the warranty.
It's just ridiculous not to know the exact state of the battery by monitoring what is coming out. It's ridiculous not to know how many watts you are consuming, going down the road. That tells you everything about how efficient you are, how much range you will have. Trust me, as you go from 15 to 20 mph, the watts are going to jump a lot.
These meters are dirt cheap now, maybe $20 from Hong Kong on Ebay.
PowerMe
Well-Known Member
There's a guy here who attempts to estimate real world range based on the following formula:
batteryVolts x batteryAH / 20 = "realistic" range
His opinion is that on average, for the average rider, it takes 20 watts per mile. (This might be a little too conservative, I don't know).
So for my Easy Motion Evo Street the expected range per his formula would be:
(36 x 12)/20= 21.6 miles
Now I happen to know I can get better range than that, but that's the formula he uses. Perhaps on my bike I'm using 16 watts per mile with my assisted pedaling, which gives a range of 27 miles.
He takes great exception with manufacturers that claim what he considers unrealistic range for the average person. He's apparently gotten into it in the past with BH/Easy Motion on this, over that 60 mi range quoted in their marketing material. But, there are people who get this kind of range, and they're not all 100 lb flat road cyclists.
batteryVolts x batteryAH / 20 = "realistic" range
His opinion is that on average, for the average rider, it takes 20 watts per mile. (This might be a little too conservative, I don't know).
So for my Easy Motion Evo Street the expected range per his formula would be:
(36 x 12)/20= 21.6 miles
Now I happen to know I can get better range than that, but that's the formula he uses. Perhaps on my bike I'm using 16 watts per mile with my assisted pedaling, which gives a range of 27 miles.
He takes great exception with manufacturers that claim what he considers unrealistic range for the average person. He's apparently gotten into it in the past with BH/Easy Motion on this, over that 60 mi range quoted in their marketing material. But, there are people who get this kind of range, and they're not all 100 lb flat road cyclists.
Hurley
Active Member
Well, you obviously have not been listening to Bruce Choate. The Sonders bike-properly using the throttle will net you over 50 miles easy. Pedal assist is a gimmick.
I believe what he means is basically hardly use the throttle except for emergencies for 15 mph sprints.
But seriously, pedal assist and level of pedal assist makes a HUGE difference.
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PowerMe
Well-Known Member
Why would I listen to anyone on a CF campaign in which I'm not one of the contributors? (yes I know you're being tongue-in-cheek here). Although now they are supposedly adding PAS so whaddya know! What the Sondo campaign does or does not say or do doesn't affect me in any way. I'm not interested in that fat tire bike or any fat tire bike. I don't look at their updates or care whether they deliver 7K eBikes out of China or not. If I was a contributor to the level of the price of 1 bike, I would care.
However, I am a funder of the Noke U-lock campaign on KS, which is supposed to deliver their product in Sept 2015.
wa5
Well-Known Member
2 hours ago
Hi Sondors eBike Backers!
Just a quick note to let you know Storm is back in China overseeing production. While we await images from the assembly line, here are a few pics of the polished steel tools (for battery box) inside injection molding machine as well as an actual production finished injection molded part (yellow) battery box piece.
Enjoy!
Go Sondors Team
Hi Sondors eBike Backers!
Just a quick note to let you know Storm is back in China overseeing production. While we await images from the assembly line, here are a few pics of the polished steel tools (for battery box) inside injection molding machine as well as an actual production finished injection molded part (yellow) battery box piece.
Enjoy!
Go Sondors Team
George S.
Well-Known Member
Another Indiegogo, but I'm not up for it. No bargain.
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/add-e-simply-add-electricity-to-your-bicycle#home
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/add-e-simply-add-electricity-to-your-bicycle#home
FTC Complaint
Active Member
I raise you one; Centinel Wheel on Kickstarter;
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/hycore/centinel-wheel-all-in-one-smart-bike-wheel
The Centinel wheel is not to be confused with either the Centennial Wheel or the Copenhagen Wheel, or even the Fly Kly http://electricbikereview.com/flykly/smart-wheel/
I mention the fly-kly becuase it raises some of the issues Storm is not addressing, and won't address even half as well as fly-kly.
the "this product seems to be dangerous and it (may or) might not be covered by product liability insurance "Fly Kly"
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/flykly/flykly-smart-wheel/comments
eter about 4 hours ago
Had my wheel for about a month now. Figured I could share my thoughts on it.
The bad:
- Horrible bluetooth connection. Can only connect to the wheel if very close (About 30cm max). Kind of defeats the purpose and fails to deliver on what was promised. It can't be used as advertised.
- Cumbersome connection process. You need to manually connect to the wheel in BT settings each time then switch to the app and connect there. No auto connect.
Sometimes after doing the whole connection process it instantly drops connection and then you cant reconnect.
- Accelerates while steering the bike, as the small cog follows the hub sometimes. When you least expect it, it starts to accelerate! Its both embarrassing and dangerous!
- App is very poorly made with lots of bugs and bad user experience.
- Battery indicator unreliable and not very accurate. Example: Showing 30% and it ran out after 5 mins. From full charge going 10km it can show 99% etc. You can't rely it to take you home with below 40% power.
- Battery runs out faster than expected.
- Poor quality in phone holder, can't possible hold its own weight + phone.
- Quite heavy, didn't really realize what a pain it would be to carry it up to the apartment to charge it.
- I've been forced to re-register my wheel 3 times now as it seems to forget the initial installation and resets itself. = Could be stolen if someone just connected to it when this happened.
- Flykly support is very slow and their responses is often not very helpful and very vague. Avoiding and making excuses. Getting nowhere.
The good:
- Once you are on you way, it works pretty well when accelerating and going up hills. It is fun, but it has way to many flaws that ruins the experience.
After 1,5 years +(?) of constant delays they finally delivered a product that feels very unfinished with lots of flaws. Disappointing.
OR the perhaps the un-certified battery will catch fire or explode question
theadrew 5 days ago
Noticed today that my charger gets extremely hot after two hours of charging- hot enough to not want to leave it charging with I'm not home. Anyone else? Also to charge from 5% to 100% took about 3 hours 15 minutes. Anyone get a green light on charger after full charge?
The solution to this problem comes to you from agency 2.0 it is called a Pavlock; just before you are about to hit the pay-me now button on a crowd-fund you get a 400 volt shock!
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wa5
Well-Known Member
genuine question Hurley, apart from the typo's.. would there be a reason why it is polished rather than textured? (My guess would be polished / smooth mould would be cheaper than textured, that would add quite a bit more machining I would guess?). also another question, I am not familiar with plastic moulding, do the pictures look like they have come from the (machined) moulds, or are they blow moulded? guessing the little tags on the pieces would tell the story?. just trying to make sure Storm isn't faking it Hurley.
JRA
Well-Known Member
Bruce Choate
2 hours ago
Please direct all Support Questions and Concerns to [email protected]
If you purchased the extra battery at the $179 special that included shipping cost, you only need to pay the $50 for all new battery sales.
The way this reads to me is that they want $50 shipping for any of their extra batteries. Quite a few extra batteries were sold during the campaign, certainly a lot more than at the current price. They have been pretty unforgiving with the shipping costs so far so I doubt that they will ship extra batteries for free no matter when they were bought. Of course there is no word except from the Sondorites regarding this.
2 hours ago
Please direct all Support Questions and Concerns to [email protected]
If you purchased the extra battery at the $179 special that included shipping cost, you only need to pay the $50 for all new battery sales.
The way this reads to me is that they want $50 shipping for any of their extra batteries. Quite a few extra batteries were sold during the campaign, certainly a lot more than at the current price. They have been pretty unforgiving with the shipping costs so far so I doubt that they will ship extra batteries for free no matter when they were bought. Of course there is no word except from the Sondorites regarding this.
FTC Complaint
Active Member
J.R.
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
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- Piedmont Highlands
Price, quality, speed... pick two! Either finish has it's problems.... Gloss finish is faster/less expensive, but getting a good finish can take time. A fast process can create a wavy finish that will look unpleasant. A textured finish, the tooling can be more expensive. With texture you will not see the wavy surface, but the texture will pickup the light different than the frame and that would make the color appear different. Most cheap, mass produced items have textured finish, it gives it a better look. On this bike I would want gloss (even wavy), I thought mixing two finishes of the same color would look like crap! But what do I know I hate the look of the lunchbox to begin with!
Credible Hulk
Active Member
2 hours ago
Hi Sondors eBike Backers!
Just a quick note to let you know Storm is back in China overseeing production. While we await images from the assembly line, here are a few pics of the polished steel tools (for battery box) inside injection molding machine as well as an actual production finished injection molded part (yellow) battery box piece.
Enjoy!
Go Sondors Team
Am I the only one who's starting to suspect that there's an underlying agenda to all these plastic baloney sandwich box pics? After all, Ivars has made a sort of career out of designing and selling his designs for plastic gewgaws (like Happy Meal toys) in the past. Maybe the real reason he's in China is to promote his baloney box design to Chinese ebike manufacturers, and profit by collecting royalties on each ebike manufactured using his design?
In which case, why even bother building ebikes at a loss, then dealing with customer complaints afterwards, when you can fleece the backers and use their money to develop and sell your baloney box instead of building the ebikes you sold? That would explain all the months of nothing but baloney box pics, and only two prototype ebikes reused for different shots.
pxpaulx
Well-Known Member
That would assume the Chinese manufacturers care about ripping a product off, which I'm pretty sure is the wrong assumption
If they want to make the lunchbatterybox, they will just make a 2nd mold for themselves and do it! Oh and they'll call it the Strom.Similar threads
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