Sondors Fact Finding. Due Diligence. Scrutiny.

Today is May 11, 2015.

Were bikes expected to be in everyone's hands by May 11, 2015?

It was said from the very beginning that delivery of bikes would likely be late (note: said by everyone who has seen CF campaigns before, not said by Sonders himself or Agency 2.0). Everyone agreed and even conceded that it wouldn't necessarily be a sign of failure, though it would be disappointing to be waiting longer. However, who here actually and truly expected on-time delivery? Seriously? Did you read the fine print?

FlyKly & Copenhagen are both well over 1 year LATE (maybe over 2 years late) and not one person here has been screeching their disgust and calling for the heads of those campaign chiefs. Why not?

WHERE is the safety testing, regulatory assurances, insurances and warranty of the other eBike type campaigns? Not there? Holes in any of those campaigns? Why is no one screeching about those?

I see a double or triple standard. I'm NOT saying Sonders is anything. What I'm saying is THIS campaign is seen differently even when other CF campaigns have also been late in delivering the goods and haven't worked out all the biz issues. MOST campaigns have issues. They do. And yes, if there is a campaign chief who also is untrustworthy well... that's another level of risk, isn't it?
 
FlyKly isn't even the product it was originally presented during the campaign. It was bought out by another company, specs changed to more detriment of the product and then spat back out to the backers.

Both of these 'wheel' designs (Copenhagen and FlyKly) are embarrassing failures to the enthusiasm and promise they originally generated.
 
So what you are effectively saying is that if I want to complain about misleading specs and false statements in this campaign, for those complaints to be accurate or observant I have to also comment on other campaigns which do not interest me and I never approached to buy multiple bikes from or never banned me from a Facebook page for asking questions?
 
PowerMe said:
Today is May 11, 2015.

Were bikes expected to be in everyone's hands by May 11, 2015?

It was said from the very beginning that delivery of bikes would likely be late (note: said by everyone who has seen CF campaigns before, not said by Sonders himself or Agency 2.0). Everyone agreed and even conceded that it wouldn't necessarily be a sign of failure, though it would be disappointing to be waiting longer. However, who here actually and truly expected on-time delivery? Seriously? Did you read the fine print?

FlyKly & Copenhagen are both well over 1 year LATE (maybe over 2 years late) and not one person here has been screeching their disgust and calling for the heads of those campaign chiefs. Why not?

WHERE is the safety testing, regulatory assurances, insurances and warranty of the other eBike type campaigns? Not there? Holes in any of those campaigns? Why is no one screeching about those?

I see a double or triple standard. I'm NOT saying Sonders is anything. What I'm saying is THIS campaign is seen differently even when other CF campaigns have also been late in delivering the goods and haven't worked out all the biz issues. MOST campaigns have issues. They do. And yes, if there is a campaign chief who also is untrustworthy well... that's another level of risk, isn't it?
Click to expand...

the Sondors campaign is higher profile on this forum because it's much higher profile in real life - those other campaigns are insignificant.

This is the big leagues of crowdsourced e-bikes lol.
 
Those campaigns were funded by many thousands and are just as significant to the people who contributed to them. A very small number of EBR members ponied up and put their $$$ on the line for this campaign; it remains to be seen if the Sonders bikes are delivered at some point or never. It's still too soon to say "never."

FlyKly and Copenhagen are the original "big league" of crowdsourced eBike conversion kits!

Sonders is only higher profile here because of a couple fanatics and some who are not contributors who feel it's important to repeat the same things overAndoverAndover.

At this point (May 11, 2015) no one can state with absolute knowledge they won't ever receive their bike. They might. They might not. Too soon to tell for sure.
 
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7-25-2015 Seems to be the next court date; I think the motions are beginning to flow; there is a rumor there is a motion to quash to be heard in Nov; probably based on invalid service or an order by the court to continue; after having lost the ability to dismiss the case in the first hearing; they might be making the case for venue (arbitration) with the motion to quash. I am just guessing; but this is common pretrial wrangling. Deadbeats typically know how to delay.

Were I IGG or Paypal, I would be reticent to release funds fearing I would be responsible for making folks whole eg. charge backs.

This is your last remaining windows to ask for a refund.
 
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Powerme obviously my repetitive posts have yet to sink in - my grudge and primary focus is on the false claims and misleading advertising and we don't need to wait until whenever to work that one out do we?
 
PowerMe said:
Today is May 11, 2015.

Were bikes expected to be in everyone's hands by May 11, 2015?

It was said from the very beginning that delivery of bikes would likely be late (note: said by everyone who has seen CF campaigns before, not said by Sonders himself or Agency 2.0). Everyone agreed and even conceded that it wouldn't necessarily be a sign of failure, though it would be disappointing to be waiting longer. However, who here actually and truly expected on-time delivery? Seriously? Did you read the fine print?

FlyKly & Copenhagen are both well over 1 year LATE (maybe over 2 years late) and not one person here has been screeching their disgust and calling for the heads of those campaign chiefs. Why not?

WHERE is the safety testing, regulatory assurances, insurances and warranty of the other eBike type campaigns? Not there? Holes in any of those campaigns? Why is no one screeching about those?

I see a double or triple standard. I'm NOT saying Sonders is anything. What I'm saying is THIS campaign is seen differently even when other CF campaigns have also been late in delivering the goods and haven't worked out all the biz issues. MOST campaigns have issues. They do. And yes, if there is a campaign chief who also is untrustworthy well... that's another level of risk, isn't it?
Click to expand...

If they were expecting bikes in May, I doubt they think they are getting them at this point. I agree though that delays can happen with the crowdfunding campaigns, so delays are fairly common. The flykly and copenhagen? I have a feeling the difference is they were trying to do something original (you could argue the originality in the sondors bike is the price - hasn't been done, but that is arguably because it is just too low). I also have an inkling that the amount of money involved has directly garnered more interest, both positive and negative (and those sentiments from both supporters and detractors).

The reason there aren't cries of foul with the other recent bikes (radrover, wave bike and karmic koben) is that all 3 campaign owners have answered every question without delay and provided detailed campaign information. I looked at the sondors for about a minute, the price was enticing however it is a poorly thought out electric FAT bike (I own a fat bike, and am getting a radrover - the radrover is well thought out to suit being a fat bike that is electric, not the other way around). I'm actually a contributor to both the radrover and the koben - the difference between the campaign runners couldn't be more clear if you care to research them online. In both cases they are well known in the electric vehicle industry and both have indicated they are warranting the products they are building. They are still crowd-funding campaigns, but there are pretty clear differences with the Sondors campaign.

We shall see how it all plays out soon enough! The difference between me and say FTC is that I do hope the contributors get their bikes. If I were to buy a bike directly from alibaba or aliexpress exactly how much recourse would I expect via that avenue? I view the sondors bike as no different - the fact that they have taken in over $5 Million seems to be a major reason why the campaign has garnered the level of attention it has.
 
One of the most successful CF campaigns of all time is the Coolest Cooler on KS.. over $13M, over 60,000 units sold.. That Creator is simply amazing, and has made numerous changes.. Delivery is running months late, from a Feb ship date to July, maybe. CF eBikes have a far worse performance history.

Would not be surprised at all if Sondors ship date slips into June and first bikes delivered in July or August.

Sondors real challenge after he starts shipping is putting together a great assembly video.. Those 6000 buyers may not not all be experts..

And the other challenge is sabotage..
 
"Sondors real challenge after he starts shipping is putting together a great assembly video.." Why is a video a challenge and wouldn't the video come before he starts shipping???
 
JoePah how do you create the concept of a cheap ebike? What innovation are you funding or development of it? Manufacturing was all in place on Deb 2nd for 12-14k units per month.

This is retail without any consumer protection - or did Ivars Sondors invent the cheap ebike with inflated and exaggerated claims?

The challenge of sabotage is interesting - are you referring to people he owes money pursuing him for those funds and being successful? Or sabotage in that funders realise that storm is trying to infect them with Mushroom Syndrome ie keep them in the dark and feed them s*it (Latin term Sondorsspillinghorseshitagain)

How much interest has been earned on the funds to date? Taking photos of the one and only bike in existence? Tell me please have you ever seen two yellow bikes in the same shot. Let me give you a clue, the answer is no
 
"Why aren't you commenting on the Copenhagen wheel and Flykly?..

Why? Because theres no law saying that I must take an interest in every dud campaign, every potential fraud or ripoff in order to comment on this one.

Just because someone uses twisted logic to suggest that I cant concentrate on just one issue, that doesn't make it so. This bike interests me, I seriously thought about buying one.. so have followed the story.

"Why continue to post the same negative things on the IGG page?" ...

Simple, nobody goes back more than about ten posts, I believe potential funders do need to have the problems with this campaign pointed out to them, so it is necessary to keep those warning near the top of the page.
 
What's revolutionary about this bike is not the bike, it's that thousands of people decided they wanted one at the price point it was being offered on IGG and they jumped in the funding pool, despite multiple warnings from some who were urging them not to take the bait. They took the bait and decided it was worth it to them.

The bike itself is just a cheapie bike, which everyone knows. Although, electric power for any bike is a cool thing for those who have never experienced it. Even if that power only nets 10 to 15 mi using throttle-only with the size of the battery, it's something a regular push bike doesn't have.

IF the bike does arrive and IF it does work, then it might be a conduit that gets more people excited about eBike technology in general. Or someone may decide they like fat bikes in particular and decide to get a nicer model fat bike down line, instead of a cheapie Chinese model. Or alternatively, they could decide the whole thing was a massive waste of their money & they want nothing to do with any eBike in the future.

Really it's hard to say what each funder will think. How much risk is $500 + shipping worth? 7,000+ people decided they wanted to take this particular risk on this particular bike, at this particular price point, on a crowdfunding campaign in which they expressly sign off on understanding what 'funding' a campaign actually means.
 
Really it's hard to say what each funder will think. How much risk is $500 + shipping worth? 7,000+ people decided they wanted to take this particular risk on this particular bike, at this particular price point.......

.....on the particular performance figures stated..... particular range figures stated...... particular battery charge time stated.

Which are thoroughly misleading.

Best not tell only half the story.
 
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Facts get in the way of emotions; this fellow is talking about confirmation bias the moral of the story is the same for Sondors.

People have to find out the story about Storm is not true and they are going to fight the pain of realization with zeal even after it is all over., the blogger provides a few examples from bigfoot to physics. Start the video at 4:42 mark if you want to save a bit of time. Listen carefully as it applies to the Storm bike. 10:26 is the conclusion. You can take any topic you want and you will find the same pattern over and over and over again. More people than you'd want will follow stories based on emotion, and that is sad. Confirmation bias is energy wrongly allocated, binding yourself to stories that are emotion based are the wrong reason to believe.


Being an expert, asking questions, acknowledging fact, critical thinking, acknowledging the lawsuit, watching the team go from three parties to one!, knowing you paid up front for the privileged of having nor rights; all bad things as far as Sondors fans are concerned.
 
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FTC Complaint said:
Facts get in the way of emotions; this fellow is talking about confirmation bias the moral of the story is the same for Sondors.

People have to find out the story about Storm is not true and they are going to fight the pain of realization with zeal even after it is all over., the blogger provides a few examples from bigfoot to physics. Start the video at 4:42 mark if you want to save a bit of time. Listen carefully as it applies to the Storm bike. 10:26 is the conclusion. You can take any topic you want and you will find the same pattern over and over and over again. More people than you'd want will follow stories based on emotion, and that is sad. Confirmation bias is energy wrongly allocated, binding yourself to stories that are emotion based are the wrong reason to believe.


Being an expert, asking questions, acknowledging fact, critical thinking, acknowledging the lawsuit, watching the team go from three parties to one!, knowing you paid up front for the privileged of having nor rights; all bad things as far as Sondors fans are concerned.
Click to expand...

I'm putting you on my follow list after that one!
 
stevenast said:
I'm putting you on my follow list after that one!
Click to expand...

The idea of building your own bike is to learn everything you can in a few core fields; motors, batteries, bicycles, mechanics, electronics. When you look for an "expensive" e:bike to buy you use sites such as EBR to do research, you might visit a store, might read reviews, or you might learn about the core components of ebikes. If you buy an ebike on Indiegogo you buy the bike and defend it to the hilt, having failed to do any basic research in the first place. You figure the crowdfunder has done all the hard work; this happens to be false in the case of Storm.
 
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