Sondors Fact Finding. Due Diligence. Scrutiny.

From the IGG site comments:

"Philip Hillis

From my experience, usually the guy with the lowest caricature talks the most trash. How much trash has Storm Sondors talked about anyone?"

Apparently plenty according to Jon Hopp: “Around mid-February he came to me and said that I was problematic to the process of the agency. Sondors told me, that the agency was threatening to quit if my input and presence was going to continue.”

But as far as the general funders go he has several people that have never even met him or ever will that have actually paid for the privilege of talking trash for him.
 
The 15% got me. I would wager A2.0 got the initial 5 and the remaining 10 didn't come AT the close of the campaign. With A2.0 hoping to ride crowdfunding out for years to come it makes perfect business sense to pull out ASAP. 5% paid the bills and the 10% pure profit. If A2.0 wants to stay in the good graces of the CF world why take the chance your rep could be ruined for ever.
 
This article spells out the business-interconnections between Agency 2.0 and Indiegogo, it also spells out the connectivity between Agency 2.0 and Storm.

http://www.crowdfundinsider.com/201...e-crowdfunding-partner-i-feel-like-i-was-had/

Issues in future litigation;

It was rightly pointed out that Indigogo has, within their term of service, a provision which takes a stance against fraud. Indiegogo was made aware of material misstatements within the Storm offering and they refused to address those concerns. Those concerns might-could be deemed to meet the threshold of fraud.

Indiegogo is claiming to be separate and distinct but we are now starting to see how connected these entities are.

The article intimates that (a destitute) Storm may have used amounts at Paypal as his personal bank account.

Protecting your rights;

I would urge you to ask Storm and also Indiegogo for your money back. Both parties will likely say no.

You might still get a bike, although the odds of you getting the bike have diminished significantly, but you won't get the business infrastructure necessary to support the product (testing, product liability insurance, regulatory requirements, customer support etc.) Having back-end infrastructure on this product is part of merchanitibility.


You are entitled to be provided with a product which is legal and safe to operate, from a company which has enough depth to provide a warranty to merchantability.
 
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This is more encouraging, personally I would like to have seen the hundreds of frames, batteries and motors to which Sondors has referred.

1 hour ago


Hi Sondors eBike Backers!

It’s Greg here with a manufacturing update, battery testing update and another goodie from Storm!

First, THANK YOU ALL for the continued support and positive thoughts coming through the support email, Facebook group and social channels. This has been a very rewarding time for all of us!

A few things we wanted to highlight:

** Support System **

Since creating a support system with Zendesk (major player in the support market), we’ve worked furiously to improve response time and hope you’re noticing and benefiting from the quicker responses.

** Manufacturing Update **

We’re excited to share that color selections were sent to the manufacturing team earlier this week! If you had a last-minute change or haven’t received an email back confirming, it’s ok and we’ll get back to you ASAP and still have a few days before we won’t be able to take anymore changes.

** Battery Testing **

Storm tested the electric only range and hit 20 miles as promised … in fact, kept going and actually hit 23 miles!

As Storm put it:

“Got to 20 miles....still going strong. Hit 22 miles no problem then at 23 miles my digital reader battery screen showed empty...still I got 700 yards out for cool total of 23.7 miles. Super excited! Huge Thank you goes to Samsung cells for this outstanding performance. ”



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The manufacturing team even presented Storm with a Sondors eBike hat!



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Hop over to the blog to see more pics from the ride!


** Now for the free upgrade for all backers! **

We’ve upgraded the brakes to one from Tektro, a reputable brand in the bike brake market. Here’s a picture of it on the bike!



20150429112307-upgradedbrakes.JPG


Ok, one last pic from the ride. Have a great day everyone!
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Storm Sondors
 
Wow, 20 miles as advertised! All the way up to 23.7! At a blistering average of 13 mph on what appears to be very level ground with scrawny Storm at the helm! Is the display going to be the next free upgrade along with levels of assist? Tektro does so! And now gimme hats too. Seriously this is more fun to watch than a barrel of monkeys.
 
The range was advertised as 50 miles - then *with pedal assist was added. I guess Storm is using a battery in peak condition, level ground, light wind, lightweight rider and with hardly any slowing down, or stopping i.e. constant velocity - he would mad should if he have tried to accurately represent what the bike is capable of doing, which I estimate in peak condition will be 17 or 18 miles at that speed and then will deteriorate from thereon. I would have been interested to know what the range was at peak speed but alas we are not privy to those details.
 
Since when is 700 yards equal to .7 miles? I thought there were 1600 yards in a mile...

According to the computer, average speed was 12.6 miles per hour.

It is interesting that it says assist level 2...obviously the bike does not have peddle assist. Or does it?

I am confused! Why not a video? Why not more pics of the setup?
 
yes i spotted that too but forgot to mention it, didn't want to be accused of nit-picking! I am confused too, does it have pedal assist?
 
Interesting how Court got 12 miles (sand viper) and Storm got 23 miles? Hmmm...

it only counts if it is a closed loop with no pedaling. Really, no one rides a 350 watt bike at less than full power (which like Court found, averages about 16-17 mph)

Funny, i was just going upload this picture from the original IGG page...
 

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Storm tested the electric only range and hit 20 miles as promised … in fact, kept going and actually hit 23 miles!

As Storm put it: “Got to 20 miles....still going strong. Hit 22 miles no problem then at 23 miles my digital reader battery screen showed empty...still I got 700 yards out for cool total of 23.7 miles. Super excited! Huge Thank you goes to Samsung cells for this outstanding performance. ”

Actually 50 miles was promised! in prolific advertising.

If you run LIPO batteries down to zero you are degrading-destroying them! Electronics have to be in place to prevent the battery from getting abused in this manner.

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The fellow just proved the case for "false and misleading advertising claims."
 
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There has been no mention of a pedelec feature that I have seen but obviously this new update is utilizing that feature. I don't remember seeing any throttle bikes, as all that has been advertised so far, having level of assist. So even with the gifted Samsung cells if you put a 200 lb rider on that bike with a throttle that they will hold on full blast trying to get to that 20mph top speed with their feet still on the pedals they will likely get about 10 miles unless there are any hills involved. Unless they pedal of course then they can go on until infinity given that level of fitness to begin with.

One thing I can guarantee is that the bulk of the folks that committed to this won't be expecting to do much pedaling. Otherwise they would just go get a bicycle.

And FYI, Tektro, while it is a name brand is nothing to crow about. It is on a lot of cheap bikes!
 
@pxpaulx to remain objective there is no evidence to suggest when he was given the hat prior to the range test! It could have been afterwards. Now the claim is that Sondors claimed the bike would have a 20 mile range......... have I missed something? (Yes probably)
 
But the black bike he is riding with the hat on doesn't have a display. In fact none of the pictures of the display show what the heck bike it is on! Confusion reigns on the campaign. But don't forget that you can still get your bike, er perk, today on IGG for $649 plus $194 shipping because now you have even more less info to make your inunformed decision on! Hurry because the price goes up on March 15th!
 
A 36 volt 10ah battery that weighs only 6 pounds. Very nice!
Companies like Currie and Stromer should take notice of this new ultra light battery technology.
 
A 36 volt 10ah battery that weighs only 6 pounds. Very nice!
Companies like Currie and Stromer should take notice of this new ultra light battery technology.

Obviously he is changing things as we go along (motor, batteries, etc), so we don't know the size/weight/performance of the new components.

lets to a little analysis.
I'm making a 4.5lb 36v11Ah battery (using Samsung 29E cells). Storm's batteries are not quite that nice, but 36v10Ah (10S 5P) Samsung cells weigh about 5.5lbs + 1-2lbs for the case. Could be lighter if he goes back to the 8.8AH specification. 4 in parallel (4P) is going to be a bit lighter/cheaper/less-AH than 5 in parallel.
So yeah, Storm is in the ballpark there. His batteries are a Lot lighter than LiFePo4.
 
The 15% got me. I would wager A2.0 got the initial 5 and the remaining 10 didn't come AT the close of the campaign. With A2.0 hoping to ride crowdfunding out for years to come it makes perfect business sense to pull out ASAP. 5% paid the bills and the 10% pure profit. If A2.0 wants to stay in the good graces of the CF world why take the chance your rep could be ruined for ever.

Jon Hopp vs Storm will be the next lawsuit.

A 2.0's fee is likely, (and I see Crowdfunding insider corrected the initial article)

All advertising costs (estimated at 5% of gross revenue); plus 10% of gross sales (net of Indigogo fees) to be paid on the back end. Agency 2.0 justified this commission rate because they advanced the monies needed to fund advertising. As it stands Agency 2.0 "worked for free" as they committed all their employees to this task. It seems like a hell of allot of work, and risk, for $550,000. Agency 2.0 did not pull out, they got bilked by a dead-beat!

Crowdfunding correction; "The understanding was 5% of revenue would go to marketing like Google Ads etc. Following the completion of the campaign Agency 2.0 would receive 10% of gross revenue generated on top of the 5% for promotion. This is after Indiegogo has collected its service fee from the accrued funds. "

The expectation up front was to sell 10,000 to 14,000 units with Agency 2.0 and Indigogo privy to the potential and the projected numbers of this campaign. They were counting on a large number of unit sales to have economies of scale. The parties are intimately connected thus you should ask both Storm and Indigogo for a refund {while you can}.

My guess is that the campaign was not designed to be a loss leader; instead these guys failed to cost their business plan thereby deluding themselves that margin would be available both for Agency 2.0 and Storm..

Put a single cost into the equation such as "product liability insurance," a warranty, product testing, Samsung battery, customer service, legal fees, or even paying your advertising agency and all the assumptions in their spreadsheet just blew up, aka went "tits-up."

My thinking, is they transmuted "at cost shipping" into a fixed price profit center. But even with shipping as a profit center, there may not be enough money to cover all the costs. This change from cost based shipping to fixed cost shipping is also a materially false representation.

Charging $120 for "insurance," as an additional profit center, is also egregious. The purchase guarantee needs to be unconditional anytime prior to delivery.

Charge the battery in 90 minutes and watch literal explosions sure to launch a rider upwards 50 miles into the air and 50 miles away from the bike into the Twilight Zone. Buyers might get a bike, but they are going to get bilked.

"Pages from the Deadbeats Playbook" <- my guess it applies here;

"Because he is smarter than everyone else, including the dumb folks that follow rules"
The deadbeat knows he has no case, but he knows he is in the winning position!
He knows how to win by losing!
Honest folk, who have not seen this before, don't know how to deal with him
The court, being a process, lets time do all the work (that is why it costs a fortune to litigate)
The deadbeat knows this, and he pays NOTHING to go to court..
--It is cheaper to be sued than it is to sue
--The deadbeat "don't pay anyone," including the attorneys he hires.
--Attorneys are more numerous, and therefore more desperate to have a client, even more desperate than gullible crowdfunding agencies!

-With a court date scheduled
--The deadbeat will bide for time and work to confuse the issue
--He won't show up to court
--He will publish pictures of him hard at work in China, an outstanding citizen hard-worker!
--He might send a lawyer in his place, to ask for a postponement (being in China)
--He might not send a lawyer and thus be a total no-show
--The judge will "give him the benefit of the doubt" and he will postpone
--The guy will (or won't) show up to the next hearing in three months time
----At that time he will ask for a postponement on the grounds he is not ready
--For the second time the lawyer will ask for more time and the court will grant it
-The third time in court they will argue venue
--That will delay things for a few more months, and cause more confusion
--The deadbeat will change law-firms a few times because he won't pay up
--That will result in more delays and confusion.
--This "not showing up and deflecting, can go on and on for about a year or so
--Eventually a judgement will be won, but there will be nobody to collect from

I have seen "this guy" a few times before; the usual outcome is "you win in court" only to find "you cannot collect." Net net you lose. Best to avoid "this guy" in the first place. If you cannot avoid him, or get rid of him, cut your losses.

I would urge you to ask all parties for a refund and to file complaints with the FTC and CA AG.
 
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It has been obvious to me from the start that Sondors knows little about e bikes. The testimony of Jon Hopp that he got a few bikes going at his expense (via TommySea and worked on by HPC, the yellow w/green wheeled high wattage bike in the original video) that netted him the Manufacturing design genius label as opposed to the Manufacturing fulfillment genius designation of Sondors seems to support that. At this point without Jon to be the design genius it seems that Sondors has had to figure things out on his own and is flying by the seat of his pants with regards to the actual spec of the bike while doing his fulfillment genius thing. These "gifts" are attractive to both the funders and also to those that are yet to contribute under the In Demand feature.

If you go to other well funded campaigns like the Cool Cooler you will find that this is often the case in that with so much more money than they were asking for they tend to want to start adding features on the fly and the end result is that they fall behind on their delivery dates or in the case of the Kreyos watch they don't end up delivering anything at all. But as long as there are updates it seems to keep the bulk of the funders happy while infuriating others.

The original expectation of the campaign was to raise $70,000. If that goal was met and exceeded by a little bit the fees to Agency 2.0 would have been less than $10k. But as Hopp says when the campaign hit $2mil things started to come unglued within the ranks. Sondors claims that Agency 2.0 wanted him gone but at the same time he was taking $50k draws due to the flexible funding feature which allows the money to be disbursed before the campaign date expires. At this point this can only get worse it seems and remains highly entertaining. Especially the part about getting his car towed, no drivers license having to get bailed out part. Just the type of guy you want to trust with 5 million bucks.
 
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