@Bruce Choate will be very disappointed at the inclusion of pedal assist to which he had referred to as a gimmick, but it is there - so was the range test with pedal assist? You can bet the buck I paid to fund the Campaign it was!! Question answered!
Sondors Fact Finding. Due Diligence. Scrutiny.
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Hurley
Active Member
Wow! If there is peddle assist then there has to be a display. This adds significant cost to the bike. How does he do it? This man is truly a manufacturing genius.
Also, why not a video as opposed to a couple of pics with the bike in the dirt?
If all this is true and folks get their bikes, this is exceptional value.
Also, why not a video as opposed to a couple of pics with the bike in the dirt?
If all this is true and folks get their bikes, this is exceptional value.
pxpaulx
Well-Known Member
PAS can be switch based, there doesn't need to be a display for it. Do also remember they are in China and their internet is much more heavily regulated - it might be difficult to easily upload/send large files. Not sure we should presume to expect the same level of connectivity over there as we do here (it may also be prohibitively expensive...?). Just some thoughts on the matter!
Edit - I own a documentary about Edward Burtynsky's photography of industrial sites and manufacturing locations - which is his thing - while filming the documentary they often had trouble with the gov officials that were on location about taking his photographs (which are amazing) which the officials thought would paint the country in a bad light. Their censorship is real, and could be a reason the campaign is only being updated with a few random photos and no video to speak of.
pxpaulx
Well-Known Member
Fair enough! For the most part I'm just interested in the end result, I hope the backers are satisfied with what (if anything) they receive. I'll bet it will be close to 2 months before that question is answered.
Hurley
Active Member
I was being sarcastic but even a switched base one cost $150 such as the one used on Prodeco bikes. Yeah, in massive quantities maybe the price is $80 but considering the already low profit margin it is hard to imagine. Why isn't there a picture of one on the bike???
He keeps adding upgrades but I believe people would just want their bike already. Maybe I am paranoid, but perhaps he is still trying to milk more money. People are still slowly backing him with even more money. I think these updates are the culprit.
Hurley
Active Member
I might add that a pedal assist without a display means (like on the Prodeco bikes) that it's "all or nothing". It is exactly that, a switch. This would drain the battery very fast. In order to truly save power a peddle assist needs varying levels of assist
along with a more sophisticated torque sensor. These are very expensive such as the ones on Stromers. If the peddle assist was set up in concert with a throttle and the peddle assist was set up for 50% motor power then that would be more ideal. That way you could use 50% of the motor
while peddling and when you needed more just turn the throttle.
along with a more sophisticated torque sensor. These are very expensive such as the ones on Stromers. If the peddle assist was set up in concert with a throttle and the peddle assist was set up for 50% motor power then that would be more ideal. That way you could use 50% of the motor
while peddling and when you needed more just turn the throttle.
Credible Hulk
Active Member
A couple of things that strike me about today's update and recent ones. First of all, I'm disturbed by all the "upgrades" suddenly being offered to backers for "free". If Ivars is running on a narrow margin, how can he afford these add-ons, unless he has no intention of actually providing them (or an ebike to install them on) in the first place? He supposedly can't afford to pay his own marketing team and God knows who else, and still hasn't paid Toyjobs, who won a fraud judgment against him - so what does that say about the end result backers can expect? If a court can't wring those funds out of him years later, don't expect backers to do any better. I suspect the add-ons are a way to keep customers distracted with shiny things until he's had time to skip town with their cash.
Agency2.0 is no better than Ivars. Their statement is amateurish, thanks to not hiring a lawyer. As I read it I kept hearing Judge Judy's voice "That's inadmissible! That's hearsay! That's speculation..." Lots of irrelevant sob story about their poor pitiful company, and childish unproven accusations about "we think he'll run off with the money". Olenik should have stuck to the matter at hand: a contract was signed, terms of that contract were breached.
I do see a line of defense for Ivars, though. Nobody twisted Olenik/2.0's arm to spend all that extra money, especially after the campaign ended AND they didn't get paid as promised. However - they admit they did get paid, $190 k. Ivars could say it's the agreed on amount for services rendered; Olenik claims it's reimbursement for the "extra" money which (apparently) nobody asked him upfront to spend. We'll see what a judge thinks.
2.0 even paid to get Ivars' car out of impound for non-payment. Does that sound like a purely professional relationship to you? This looks more like an ugly personal divorce than a business dispute.
On a side note, I read somewhere that in the Toyjobs suit Ivars avoided paying because he stashed all of his cash in some girlfriend's personal bank account. Don't be surprised if the same happens this time around, since he already got away with it once.
Agency2.0 is no better than Ivars. Their statement is amateurish, thanks to not hiring a lawyer. As I read it I kept hearing Judge Judy's voice "That's inadmissible! That's hearsay! That's speculation..." Lots of irrelevant sob story about their poor pitiful company, and childish unproven accusations about "we think he'll run off with the money". Olenik should have stuck to the matter at hand: a contract was signed, terms of that contract were breached.
I do see a line of defense for Ivars, though. Nobody twisted Olenik/2.0's arm to spend all that extra money, especially after the campaign ended AND they didn't get paid as promised. However - they admit they did get paid, $190 k. Ivars could say it's the agreed on amount for services rendered; Olenik claims it's reimbursement for the "extra" money which (apparently) nobody asked him upfront to spend. We'll see what a judge thinks.
2.0 even paid to get Ivars' car out of impound for non-payment. Does that sound like a purely professional relationship to you? This looks more like an ugly personal divorce than a business dispute.
On a side note, I read somewhere that in the Toyjobs suit Ivars avoided paying because he stashed all of his cash in some girlfriend's personal bank account. Don't be surprised if the same happens this time around, since he already got away with it once.
@Credible Hulk, if anything this mess with Agency 2.0 can buy Sondors the one thing he needs - time.
For that reason I have a sneaking suspicion it has all been pre-planned and he Sondors may be able to present himself as an angel sent to earth when he is able to deliver bikes in a few months to backers who by then will have lost all heart.
For that reason I have a sneaking suspicion it has all been pre-planned and he Sondors may be able to present himself as an angel sent to earth when he is able to deliver bikes in a few months to backers who by then will have lost all heart.
scmike
Active Member
I think CH's last post is pretty spot-on. Sondors is stalling, big time.. I found this article about Chinese eBike Manufacturing, it show's a production line of Leighten bikes seems like a nice factory... If Sondors would post something like that maybe we could start to believe.
(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)
(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)
George S.
Well-Known Member
I think he added some more extras this morning. They must be using different cells, since the battery is now 10AH. The extra battery is now much more expensive and there is a shipping charge. They didn't provide any discount on the shipping.
In the latest update there is more reason to believe bikes are being built. No one knows how much money Storm has, how tight and complete his budget is, or what the Agency demands would do to the budget.
Does Storm want to make any money? Has he taken his cut already? He seems to be doing what he likes to do, making the bikes. And he does seem to be fairly good at it. Can he really be in an authoritarian country, jacking around factories that are ultimately tied to the Communist Party and the elite?
wa5
Well-Known Member
George, I see no proof that Storm is manufacturing anything, and that's the big issue right now, What I do see is two bikes, one of which (the yellow one) could well be the first "production bike" from the one and only ride day back in February, the other (black one) is clearly a bit of a lash up, missing the battery cover, with cable ties and looks to have a separate controller (can see the silver box hanging in the background of one of the latest pictures (the picture of the adjustable handle bar stem).
I've seen pictures of Storm at the LAX airport, Pictures of him in a factory with some people who appear to be Asian, Pictures of some unrelated bike parts that might be in the same factory, Pictures of one part of a mould being designed on a coputer screen and the same part after it has been machined, Pictures of the inside of a bike factory not making Storm bikes. and now some pictures of two storm bikes being put together by hand with some other non Storm bikes. and lastly pictures of those same two bikes stationary somewhere that looks like it could be in Asia. Now Storm is being more and more generous with giving away more free stuff (I think the LCD screen may be next, though that would negate the LED display near the throttle). Basically what I see is questionable "evidence" that anything is in production and more and more "value" added to appeal to peoples greed (IE the idea they are getting something for nothing).. What I see, is a classic long con.
I've seen pictures of Storm at the LAX airport, Pictures of him in a factory with some people who appear to be Asian, Pictures of some unrelated bike parts that might be in the same factory, Pictures of one part of a mould being designed on a coputer screen and the same part after it has been machined, Pictures of the inside of a bike factory not making Storm bikes. and now some pictures of two storm bikes being put together by hand with some other non Storm bikes. and lastly pictures of those same two bikes stationary somewhere that looks like it could be in Asia. Now Storm is being more and more generous with giving away more free stuff (I think the LCD screen may be next, though that would negate the LED display near the throttle). Basically what I see is questionable "evidence" that anything is in production and more and more "value" added to appeal to peoples greed (IE the idea they are getting something for nothing).. What I see, is a classic long con.
JRA
Well-Known Member
Wow, Storm figured out that by flipping the stack washers on the headset it makes them adjustable! While in fact the demo bike had stack washers on it all along and was capable of doing the same thing. A cheap pedelec system is actually a minus feature which anyone that has ridden one will tell you, but obviously Sondors was taken with the concept which I am sure he had no idea about as he had always had to use a throttle. Keep it up boys, it is obviously working because the money is still flowing in!
George S.
Well-Known Member
If it's a con he has the money, certainly millions. If it's a con he would have paid off Agency to keep them happy. If it's a con, he'd be in Brazil.
Maybe he's in Brazil. So he's on a 'set' he's made, and he's hired a bunch of Asian actors, and he pretends he is making bikes. Why? There's no extradition. He won't make much more money. He's creating more media attention when he'd want to quietly slip away. Isn't the con over when you pack all the money in a bag?
Surely you realize you are devoting your life to this man? What could possibly be in it for you? In a sense you and the other serial critics are the ones being led down the garden path. You can't let go of it.
Sondors has drawn everyone, especially Chris, into his world, and he's not playing by your rules.
I think he'll build the bike because I think he cares about the bike. I think he posts idiotic updates because he likes being the center of attention. I think he hates A2 and he'll work long and hard to screw A2, even if he blows off the court system. He's already running from court judgments. What's another one or two? Do you think he wants money?
You could say Sondors has a social disability, but there seems to be a lot of pathology. The problem A2 created was that Sondors can do the China stuff, the manufacturing. When they made him into the Surfer/Action Figure celebrity, and it was entirely fabricated, they were left with a very fragile man in charge of all the assets, and then making the bike. That was an unbelievably bad decision.
scmike
Active Member
George, You think he did it for his 15 minutes of fame? I'm with wa5... it's the ole classic long con... In fact I think he is in China... probably in the basement of his hotel... modifying the 2 bikes he has and riding around
some construction site... Why hire actors.. the Chinese love cameras...
some construction site... Why hire actors.. the Chinese love cameras...
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