Sondors Fact Finding. Due Diligence. Scrutiny.

JoePah, IF the bike ships to all the backers, and it doesn't expire in a cloud of smoke, and / or fall to pieces the first time its ridden, no one will be happier than me. If the above is achieved, I'll publicly congratulate Storm, and apologise for anything I've said against him.

So far though JoePah, I've seen two sets of those hand grips so far, You'd think, given that shipping starts Friday, Storm would be able to show a few pictures of some bikes being built, maybe even a second plastic battery cover? They have shown only one, and it may well be the one off the prototype... There is enough reason to doubt they have manufactured a battery cover yet.

As said, I'll be happy to eat Crow, if I've got this wrong, I'm yet to be convinced I have it wrong however.
 
I have always been a little surprised at the negativity with Storm.


IMHO he seems to be a bright talented guy who knows nothing about bicycles and has wildly optimistic claims about his product. He is getting an on the job education. Still, what he is doing is not technically difficult. He is doing nothing new (other than good styling and marketing), and I see no reason why he should fail to produce and deliver bikes.


And of course, this bike will have the same performance as any 60-65lb 350 watt single speed bike – kinda fun for someone who doesn’t ride bikes often, kinda disappointing for someone who believed his initial claims, saw the video and expects to ride on anything that is not flat and paved. Court demonstrated that nicely with his sand viper video.


The only thing not off the shelf is the battery box, and he has cut the dies for that. I like his new motor, but by my calculations that is going to add about 5 lbs (2.3kg) to the bike. And yes, a bike like that needs a strong motor, and no, a bike like that was never going to weigh 45lbs.
 
Chas said:
And of course, this bike will have the same performance as any 60-65lb 350 watt single speed bike – kinda fun for someone who doesn’t ride bikes often, kinda disappointing for someone who believed his initial claims
Click to expand...

Kinda like a Chrysler New Yorker with a Briggs & Stratton 5HP motor trying to climb Mt. Rainier? Here's the proverbial fly in the ointment: "someone who believed his initial claims"

It's kind of strange (IMO) that people would be so nonchalant about this issue. I've seen well established, reputable companies eviscerated in the public arena, and the press, for making fairly innocent and minimally consequential claims, far short of a Whale Tale. As people say the proof will be when the bikes are delivered and people ride them for the first time. Maybe they'll be happy.......the feedback will be interesting.

Court J.
 
I just read through that sondors update - where does it say they are being shipped individually from China?

This is the FAQ answer I think is being used for this reasoning:

A) No, each bike is shipped individually so needs to shipping needs to be paid for individually for each bike.

I didn't read anywhere that they are being shipped individually from China. You wouldn't get a discount for buying multiple bikes because you can't pack more than 1 bike in a box!

Now, if the batteries are shipping separately (which according to hazmat standards is required), those should be able to fit more than 1 to a box, at a lower rate...that I would agree you'd think could be discounted. Perhaps though with the volume the logistics of handling bundled battery shipping as one-offs would have been too much work.
 
So your theory is that they're going to ship a container of bikes here to the US, then package them up for shipping to each donator?

The other theory being that the bikes will be shipped individually straight from China.

I lean towards theory number two, because that way they will be able to get a few bikes in the hands of contributors and continue to milk this process longer. That's what I would do if I had no scruples and wanted to make the absolute most money.
 
  • Like
Reactions: wa5
Oh no, I think they would be packaged from the factory, but sent via container and labeled/shipped from a warehouse in the US. They may even label them in China for final destination, scan them on entry and send direct to UPS (or whatever carrier), but it wouldn't make sense to ship direct from China. I could be wrong, but that is just what would make the most sense to me - and I don't see that particular FAQ response as an insinuation that the bikes are being direct shipped either. None of us know anyway, all theory until the bikes (theoretically) arrive to the contributors.
 
pxpaulx said:
Oh no, I think they would be packaged from the factory, but sent via container and labeled/shipped from a warehouse in the US. They may even label them in China for final destination, scan them on entry and send direct to UPS (or whatever carrier), but it wouldn't make sense to ship direct from China. I could be wrong, but that is just what would make the most sense to me - and I don't see that particular FAQ response as an insinuation that the bikes are being direct shipped either. None of us know anyway, all theory until the bikes (theoretically) arrive to the contributors.
Click to expand...

You are too honest! Individual shipping from China makes lots of sense. As you say, we can only wait and see.
 
I try to play it straight, hahaha. For now I hope everyone gets a bike from this campaign that meets their (realistic) expectations. We'll all know in a month (or two...) if that is the case.
 
Given the royal screw up that has been made of customer orders, payment and colour options, we can only hope that IF Sondors does manage to supply any bikes, he has the good sense to use a freight company. and my money would be on him doing just that.

How the freighters choose to ship the bikes is up to them, but I think that using shipping containers into the target countries would make sense... except for smaller shipments to out of the way places of course.
 
In every country of the west, there are fulfillment companies that can handle these orders. Easy! I'm most familiar with ones in the Central Atlantic, US, having done business with several. Contracts are usually made with one fulfillment company. Bikes and batteries would be shipped from China in bulk and the fulfillment company completely takes if from there, all traffic is controlled by them. No need for Sondors & Co. to get involved after the boxes/containers leave China. Bikes could be broken up into several separate boxes each. The fulfillment company receives all, unpacks and repacks bikes complete into a new box with all parts including battery. Barcoding at the factory is very important in this process.

These fulfillment warehouses are the biggest buildings you'll ever see, measured by the acre, with hundreds of employees, fulfilling tens of thousands of orders daily. This Sondors bike is a tiny, uncomplicated order, easy to fulfill and costing little. Once on the ship, the hard part for backers getting the bike is over!
 
Well, there are two separate and distinct arguments against Sondors:

1) He is making fraudulent claims
2) What he is claiming to do is not possible and he will not deliver anything.

Do some degree these reflect the problems with Indiegogo-Kreyos watch fiasco. They apparently failed on both accounts. The claims were not possible to deliver as stated, it looks like someone did take the money and run. Some people see potential parallels with indiegogo and Storm.

For #2, anyone can go and buy a cheap $500 e-bike (plus shipping) on alibaba. So there is no technical reason why he can’t deliver. Storm’s bike just has the benefit of creating something that doesn’t look like crap and apparently has someone behind it who cares.

For #1, It is pretty clear that his performance claims were way off base. As far as Fraud goes, well here are the specs on the bike he featured in the original sales video that was taken off line after the money was raised:

Fact Finding, Due diligence and Scrutiny:
Jon H (who built the bike in the video) stated it was a 3000 watt bike (a video still shows 72 volts on the cycle analyst). That bike had a Crystalyte HS motor, 72v Electric Rider battery, Crystalyte 40A controller. Is it fraudulent to use a $4,000, 3,000 watt bike in the sales video to sell a $500, 350 watt bike?
 
Sondors eBike Crowdfunding Partner: ‘I Feel Like I Was Had’ Crowdfund Insider, 4/28/15

"Agency 2.0 was willing to commit to the project because they believed in it, and at least initially, they believed in the pair of Jon Hopp and Ivars Sondors. The understanding was 5% of revenue would go to marketing. Following the completion of the campaign Agency 2.0 would receive 10% of net revenue generated."
 
flymeaway said:
It will be interesting to find out! As I recall, people were buying the bike after taking "it" for a test ride at the demo day.....so you test ride the "Porsche" love it, then get delivery of ??????

Whale Tale.......
Click to expand...

Most of the purchases were done based on the video of the “prototype” bike in the video (3000 watt, with the green wheels, no pedals). By the time the 2nd bike (350 watt, gold wheels) was brought to demo days, the majority of funders had already put their money down. This “demo” bike looks to be similar in capability to what will be delivered (with the modifications documented on the IGG page).

Obviously the 350 Watt 36 Volt production bike won’t be able to do things the 3000 watt 72 volt ‘prototype’ bike in the video could do (the speed on the streets, riding in sand, climbing, & off road abilities). That is probably why that video has been purged.

Jon, who built the 3000 watt bike was originally listed on the IGG page as one of the two “Genius” “Co-founders” but has wisely removed himself from the IGG page and distanced himself from the project.

I give Jon a thumbs up for creating a really cool electric-cycle (it is not a bicycle as it has no pedals), inspiring Sondors and being wise enough to distance himself from Sondors’ & Agency 2.0’s dubious marketing.
 
Last edited:
J.R. said:
Sondors eBike Crowdfunding Partner: ‘I Feel Like I Was Had’ Crowdfund Insider, 4/28/15

"Agency 2.0 was willing to commit to the project because they believed in it, and at least initially, they believed in the pair of Jon Hopp and Ivars Sondors. The understanding was 5% of revenue would go to marketing. Following the completion of the campaign Agency 2.0 would receive 10% of net revenue generated."
Click to expand...

I guess everyone should read that article, but I can't absorb any more of this mess. Clearly, with A2.0 taking 5% + 10% and IGG taking about 4% and fees for processing payments, the money to build this bike is way below what people toss in. It's like a $375 bike.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

D
Nireeka triple charged me for 1 ebike
Replies
15
Views
4K
shiruba
S
Back