Sondors Fact Finding. Due Diligence. Scrutiny.

vincent713 said:
Might be true but I would be scared as heck if I don't deliver because there are going to be a lot of angry people looking for me.
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You might be scared. Not Ivars Sondors. He has a documented history of stealing thousands of dollars of other people's money, which he has yet to pay off despite a court order. Ivars doesn't give a rat's ... about that debt, and he gives even less about any of the people who handed him their money expecting an ebike in return. He portrays himself as "Storm" Sondors to hide his true identity and unsavory history. But if you want to convince yourself that everyone who paid their money will get an ebike from "Storm" - like the Select Few in the US - be my guest.

And he has no scruples about collecting more money from people who don't owe it. That's why the email about shipping fees was sent to everyone - it was deliberate in hopes that some wouldn't realize they don't owe more shipping fees.

From IGG page today:
Frode Berge
16 hours ago
I’ve been miss lead by your campaign to pay double for transport. Requesting repayment of USD 247 which I charged my credit card today . Additional do I miss the added bonus of having recommended the sale of 2 bicycles .

IGG page posts 7/18
ivanclevy
10 hours ago
Hi Sonders Team, I am sure you are swamped with ensuring we all get delivery of our orders. Can you throw some light on my order (Switzerland) is it in the first or second wave. My big concern was receiving this email where you were asking us to pay for shipping again.

abilio paulo carneiro da costa
18 hours ago
Hello greetings from Germany. …
I received today 1 email from sondors telling me to pay for the shipping !!!!!
I guess you’re kidding me,coz I belong to the first wave and didn’t get my bike yet,and I’ve paid all that I must pay,paid even more then you wanted and till no bike no nothing arrive yet. …
My email is [email protected] check well about that coz I find that totally stupid,I’m in Europe and people from the US get the bike sooner then me….that’s not right guys.. !!!!

Not one of these people, or the numerous people who are posting angry "why aren't non-US customers in the first wave getting bikes?" have received a response. What a surprise. The paid shills are too busy doing damage control and calling everyone who posts there TROLLS.
 
Those folks aren't trolls. They just lack reading comprehension. They calm down after things are slowly explained to them. Everyone's nervous before they receive their bike. It's understandable.
 
vincent713 said:
Image if you were in his shoe, could you fathom the kind of pressure he's getting?
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Storm was using all "off the shelf components" (even though he claimed the exact opposite in an early interview.. lets put that down to his utter utter cluelessness), he had a "production bike" ready to go in February, He had a factory that could produce 12 to 14,000 bikes per month. . somebody else (UPS) is taking care of freight... in short, he had everything in place.

Storm / Ivars the fraudster, just had to call the factory, say I want X amount of bikes in these colours, where do I send the money? then he had to call ups and say " the bikes are ready, pick em up at this address"..

Two Phone calls, wheres the stress.
 
You seriously think it's that simple? He was in China during the 1st production run and making sure everything was smooth. Everyone doubted that he was going to ship any bikes and how many has he now satisfied? I know he has long ways to go but he has shed "SOME" light. At this point we can only speculate and anything can happen. It boils down to are you a pessimistic or optimistic?
 
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wa5 said:
Storm was using all "off the shelf components" (even though he claimed the exact opposite in an early interview.. lets put that down to his utter utter cluelessness), he had a "production bike" ready to go in February, He had a factory that could produce 12 to 14,000 bikes per month. . somebody else (UPS) is taking care of freight... in short, he had everything in place.

Storm / Ivars the fraudster, just had to call the factory, say I want X amount of bikes in these colours, where do I send the money? then he had to call ups and say " the bikes are ready, pick em up at this address"..

Two Phone calls, wheres the stress.
Click to expand...

There are no barriers to importing products from China, other than personal relationship building which is a big part of doing business there. W/o the box (and some bling), this type of bike is already manufactured by numerous companies. There is no invention here other than slick marketing.

The hard part of the project has been avoided; and that accounts for the price differential, period. For most people this omission will not be an issue and concern as long as they get a reasonably good product.

1) Product Liability Insurance
2) Customer Support Staff
3) Quality Control
4) Documentation
5) Accountability and Recourse (going concern)

Prices of e:bikes from legitimate companies will consider the above because they want to be in business both today and tomorrow. Storm will not cause the price of e:bikes to go down, nor is he Tesla or Ford. He is the beneficiary of a false-advertising heavy marketing plan brought to you by Agency 2.0 who then got bilked.

When things go bad, and they will with some percentage of 10,000 bikes, then these "fine points" will mater quite a bit to consumers.

I would hope that people who bought this bike use it as a stepping stone to either building their own or upgrading to a more "legitimately complete" product-experience. Indigogo-Storm-Agency 2.0 risk shifted this product to the consumer which is totally unfair.

Is Storm Out of the Woods

I think we will have to wait for the court case to complete, the bikes to be delivered as promised, and we will have to monitor the user experience.

Accountability

The window for finding accountability has closed.
 
I've been closely monitoring the user because I have an interest in this bike and have not seen one of them complain about their bikes. They all love it and treat it as if it was their baby. The 3 important components, motor, battery & frame seems to be solid and no issues. Just that alone is worth what they paid for, everything else can easily be upgraded for cheap. They are very proud of their bikes and even made their own t-shirt.
tshirt2.jpg
 
I am sorry but the shirt seems to be of poor quality- low quality inks (not UV or fade resistant) and generic cotton shirt (not Hanes or Jerzees). Also the return policy is terrible as there is no warranty
 
The wheels will start to come off the Campaign soon - granted the bike seems worth $499 and has problems commensurate with buying a cheap ebike - but how many thousands of people have yet to receive a bike? EU donators need to be shipped a bike win a maximum 250w motor restricted to 15.6mph at the very least, Swiss customers need a Certificate of Conformity for bikes to be let in to the country. What have they got? Nothing! Other than "more news coming soon". For donating $499 and $247 shipping on paper they are liable for $900 charges from customs.
 
@ FTC Complaint - this might interest you if you had not noted it already... Others are claiming 18 miles or whatever with battery to spare..

  • Ro ChavannesHas anyone had any electrical troubles. 1st. Love the bike. 2nd-My led for the meter worked once, went over a bump and glitched for a few more minutes and has now quit.
    1 · 4 hrs
  • (Link Removed - No Longer Exists)
    Michael Musich    How can we get a second battery!...before October!! Battery does not last as advertised, need backup to reduce exposure!!...the "exercised" battery is good for a "few miles" on the flats before "the pull" is severely reduced, so a second battery is needed!! But, October?!!
    5 hrs
 
A quote from Endless Sphere... QUOTE..
Re: "Sondors" ebike - new fat tire entry
(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)by BruceTS » Sat Jul 18, 2015 8:37 pm

I have a yellow bike orange rims on order, it should be here by the end of the month, however I can answer most of the questions you posted. This is from our Facebook group

The battery: Samsung cells 10S4P-IRC19650-22P 36V 8.8Ah S/N TNLD2015000678

The motor: Bafang RM G06.350.D (Link Removed - No Longer Exists)

The controller: KT36ZWS-LD01 there's a few threads about this model controller on this forum

Performance: This is a quote from one of our members " The controller logic for PAS is different than full electric. When under full electric (not pedaling) you are limited to 20mph, for example. When you start to pedal, the PAS logic kicks in and gives you a small boost. You can combine this boost with throttle to vary the amount of assist. Also, when you do this, the 20mph limit is removed. I've had the bike up to nearly 30mph using this method, and it's also the best way to go up hills."

END QUOTE...

I might be inclined to doubt the 30 mph claim without GPS / Video proof.
 
Therein might lie the frustrating delay for international donators, particularly within the EU - the 350w motor makes the bike illegal for road use with tax, insurance, mot and a registration plate - it would be classed as a motorbike, also it has to be limited to 15.6mph by law - I need to do some research on the push button throttle operation. I am not so sure any EU donator will ever receive a bike, certainly not the Swiss donators but others will feel that because 2/300 people have received their ebike in the U.S. Then this campaign is a resounding success / Sondors is a little guy with Aspbergers who overcame all the trolls and is an inspiration, the Henry Ford of the modern age - fraud? What fraud? Hmmmm, well the past and the future to begin with..... I bet you ten bucks Chris olenik and Agency 2.0 get it in her neck for pursuing monied that are old to them it is claimed, and which Sondors will use as an excuse for failing to deliver.
 
vincent713 said:
and no issues
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We don't know how many bikes have been delivered (the set) and how many bikes have concerns (subset). Issues do exist and there is no recourse for them other than to reach into your own pocket for a remedy.

A) Assembly - The need to pay for assembly as suggested

There was one instance where a shop turned away an assembly because of product liability
The cost seems to be around $100-150 should assembly be outsourced.

Why can't you charge this back?

R) Representations

Concerns about false-representations have been vindicated as it pertains to range, battery size, weight, legality etc.

Shipping was to be the lesser of actual to a maximum amount, instead shipping was captured as a profit center.


These concerns summarize the issues encountered per the Sondors User Group FB Page

1) Sizing of the bike
2) Front Brake Problems (widespread)
3) Electrical Arcing
4) Heat Buildup on contacts and loose contacts
5) Mechanical problems (fasteners, noise, wear)
5a) Lack of lubrication on wheel and bottom bracket bearings
6) Tire inflation problems - and flats
7) Battery does not stay mounted while riding
8) Lack of documentation
9) Electrical cutoff problems
10) Assembly errors
11) Seat post concerns
12) Charging and charger (reading, charge time, ability to)
13) Wheels not true


W) Warranty

There are representations that an express warranty of some kind exists, however there is no documentation or process for refund, repair, or replacement either through express or limited warranties.

7/29

I will see you after 7/29 which is the next court date; or after Court posts his review of the bike. (The bike will review well, as an entry level bike; that is not the issue(s) w Sondors, it never was given that Chinese ebikes are ubiquitous)
 
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When it comes to EU legality, motor power and speed, AFAIK, customs in many, if not all countries, will not stop ebikes/motors that aren't road legal as private road use is permitted as is ownership. What happens on the road after that is going to vary from country to country - I suspect most will not have any real systems in place to police these e-bike laws. Just don't have an accident.
 
wa5 said:
Storm was using all "off the shelf components" (even though he claimed the exact opposite in an early interview.. lets put that down to his utter utter cluelessness), he had a "production bike" ready to go in February, He had a factory that could produce 12 to 14,000 bikes per month. . somebody else (UPS) is taking care of freight... in short, he had everything in place.

Storm / Ivars the fraudster, just had to call the factory, say I want X amount of bikes in these colours, where do I send the money? then he had to call ups and say " the bikes are ready, pick em up at this address"..

Two Phone calls, wheres the stress.
Click to expand...

This is a pretty stunning bike. I don't know who designed it, but Storm spent a long time in China doing the details. You don't get this bike with two phone calls. Sorry.

sondo fender.jpg
 
Standard? Like there are so many $700 fat ebikes? I know what $700 ebikes (no-fat) used to look like and this is a whole lot better.

It's a serious first shot in a war against the Euro-bike.
 
George S. said:
Standard? Like there are so many $700 fat ebikes? I know what $700 ebikes (no-fat) used to look like and this is a whole lot better.

It's a serious first shot in a war against the Euro-bike.
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Well, I was replying to your claim that it looked so good for a Fatbike.

Also, you're not really comparing like with like - this single speed with a hub motor is not really the same as a multi speed mid drive no matter how much people want it to be.
 
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