Sondors Fact Finding. Due Diligence. Scrutiny.

This is a pretty stunning bike. I don't know who designed it, but Storm spent a long time in China doing the details. You don't get this bike with two phone calls. Sorry.

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It's a good looking bike but I wouldn't call it stunning. Pretty much all fat bikes look like that minus the triangle, even the cheap Walmart Fat Dolomite looks pretty good.
 
When it comes to EU legality, motor power and speed, AFAIK, customs in many, if not all countries, will not stop ebikes/motors that aren't road legal as private road use is permitted as is ownership. What happens on the road after that is going to vary from country to country - I suspect most will not have any real systems in place to police these e-bike laws. Just don't have an accident.

Adrian the Swiss are certainly stringent with Certs of Confrmity required. I doubt any Swiss donator will ever get a bike, I may be wrong.

The EU customs, for a bike which will be packaged and is intended for road use will check the bike for a 250W motor and speed restriction to 15.6mph or it will be classed as a motorcycle and subject to delays/changes to paperwork etc - there is 15% duty, 20% vat and 48% anti-dumping based on the SRP of $1299 NOT THE PRICE DONATED for the bike.

Remember........ international backers (he means donators) watch this space.... more news coming soon......... i.e. the bikes have not even shipped yet and you will be lucky to see anything before September/October is my guesstimate......... with one proviso (IF AT ALL).
 
It looks a lot like this other Chinese bike without the gears... All this one needs is a plastic triangle box , fenders and a rack...if you are just going for looks...
http://www.walmart.com/ip/26-Mongoo...fault&beacon_version=1.0.1&findingMethod=p13n


They had some fun with it. The red polka dots, the flashy rims. The fenders are great. The rack gives it a look. Very different. The Sondors shows some flair. The owner should take a lot of pride in that bike, and it's a tribute to what you can do at the low end.

The problem seems to be that you guys won't give Sondors credit for anything. He made some major mistakes, but the bike is better than anyone suggested back in February. Someone came up with an interesting design and he implemented it very well over in China. Now people are adding some nice touches.

It's all good, for me. It's pointless to say he is a one-dimensional figure, that everything he touches is crap. It was an interesting campaign, and there's much more to it than endless criticism. If nothing else, what really went wrong? What do you want, a world run by powerful corporations? You guys should start an ebike forum, Endless Criticism. I mean really.

Beauty? Eye? Beholder? For what it is, it's stunning.
 
I believe the early reviews of the bike to be favourable, however without the 50 mile range claim, 90 minute battery charge, all made in-house from custom components stuff it would have been a far more open and honest campaign. Transparency would have won the day. Who really knows at what price-point this bike has been made though? A couple of hundred bikes have been shipped, people are crying out for news of theirs, no international donators have received ebikes and if and when all donators do receive ebikes and batteries can we determine at what price the bike has been assembled to.

The scpetic in me says that these early bikes are to fuel more sales, more revenue, because that money has already been spent. Bikes aside let us not forgot the grave concerns about the false claims, Sondors still has some way to go - and to get beyond July 29th - before we determine whether this ebike was built for $499 or $649 whatever it is, with a premium on shipping. Are the international donators funding US sales at the moment?
 
Eu --

Sondors had control of the money. Sondors built some bikes. None of his partners are happy. There is no accounting and there probably never will be. I can't see any future because there is no company.

The In Demand will be taken down by IGG. GoSondors website will not come up. The lawsuit will be settled with everything sealed. Sondobikes will trade on Craig's List. Life will go on.
 
They had some fun with it. The red polka dots, the flashy rims. The fenders are great. The rack gives it a look. Very different. The Sondors shows some flair. The owner should take a lot of pride in that bike, and it's a tribute to what you can do at the low end.

The problem seems to be that you guys won't give Sondors credit for anything.

Beauty? Eye? Beholder? For what it is, it's stunning.

I personally don't have a problem with the bike. I have a huge problem with the lies and gross exaggerations. People bought what was advertised. That's why sells was huge.
The biggest problem will be who will get the bikes? How many will get the bikes? Will anybody get their reward? Will the charities get anything? For people who receive defective bikes will anything be done about it?
There is absolutely no accountability.
So yes, I am not giving Sondors hardly any credit at all. Anybody could have done what he has done thus far with millions of dollars given to them...
 
The problem seems to be that you guys won't give Sondors credit for anything. [...] It's pointless to say he is a one-dimensional figure, that everything he touches is crap. It was an interesting campaign, and there's much more to it than endless criticism. If nothing else, what really went wrong? What do you want, a world run by powerful corporations? You guys should start an ebike forum, Endless Criticism. I mean really.

One thing I'd like to get straight from the beginning (and I'm not writing on anyone else's behalf): My issue is NOT with the bike itself. Yes it's a very nice looking bike and I was first attracted by its looks. When I first paid for it, I was as eager as anyone else to receive it. Even now, despite a few glitches, I'd be excited to get an email with my tracking number.

What really went wrong? Let's start with my $1500, where are the items I paid for? You say I won't give Ivars credit for anything. Well, I'm giving him credit alright - the kind of credit he has earned.

For me it all started when Ivars decided to treat his customers like something dug out of a latrine. We've been lied to, strung along, numerous promises and "guarantees" broken. But the worst of all, at least for me, has been being kept in the dark. No replies to emails. No explanation about why they've been delaying shipments to customers - which originally were supposed to ARRIVE in May.

You don't take over $1000 from someone as advance payment for a purchase, then treat them in this way. You don't ship product to some select people while leaving thousands of other paying customers in the dark as to why they aren't getting their item too. Right now the international backers who paid a premium shipping fee, are being crapped on just like in the proverbial latrine. We have the right to know what is happening to our order, our money and our product that we paid for.

I don't like dishonest crooks. I don't like having my money stolen and used on something else without my consent. I don't like having the item I paid for held without ETA or explanation. I don't like being harassed online by paid shills. I don't like being treated like a fool or a bank machine.

And as long as Ivars continues to serve up negativity by treating his customers like filth - I will continue to return that negativity, since it's what he deserves. He created this mess, not me. I'll change my attitude as soon as he changes his.
 
I personally don't have a problem with the bike. I have a huge problem with the lies and gross exaggerations. People bought what was advertised. That's why sells was huge.
The biggest problem will be who will get the bikes? How many will get the bikes? Will anybody get their reward? Will the charities get anything? For people who receive defective bikes will anything be done about it?
There is absolutely no accountability.
So yes, I am not giving Sondors hardly any credit at all. Anybody could have done what he has done thus far with millions of dollars given to them...



Just keep repeating...

There is absolutely no accountability.
There is absolutely no accountability.
There is absolutely no accountability.
 
There, now you have mentioned the "A" word more than me. Go back through all my post and count.
 
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Not sure where you get the No Credit thing George, The bike looks great, That's why I was going to buy one, simply because it looked great. and I'm a bigger bloke and I thought the wider rims might have been able to stand up to a bit more weight and not buckle easily. also the price, pretty hard to go past that. Even while I was feuding with some of the nutters on IGG, I was still toying with the idea of buying. But I kept coming back to Sondors being a liar and a cheat.. and I couldn't give that scumbag my money knowing he didn't make good on previous debts. The bike seems to work about as well as I'd expect a cheap china bike to work.

you want a compliment for Sondors Co. ok, here goes. John Hopp did a great job designing the bike, He really had a feeling for what peole wanted, a bit of design genius there for sure. oops he's not part of Sondors Campaign any more... so that doesn't count...

Lets have another shot at this.. Sondors Marketing was also genius.. his PR company did a great job (if not an ethical one) getting the bike "out there".. A slick campaign that did exactly what Sondors needed, I really think it would have went all the way to the planned 14 Million had Sondors past not come back to haunt him... the true believers can blame me and EulittlB if they want, but the truth is, it would have been a total non issue if Sondors had just made good on his fraud judgement.. but I digress, alas I cant use this one either as Storm has "fired" that PR team.. as well as avoided paying them 500 gorillas.

Ok, one last shot, Storm / Ivars is the finest liar / shyster / fraudster I know of. There you go George, and you said I couldn't say anything nice :)
 
Oh and personally, I think the guards and the rack take away from the clean look of the Storm / Sondors, not enhance it. like wheel spats, chrome do dads and continental kits on a 57 Belair, they just take away from a very clean design. if one of these comes up cheapish locally, in a few months years, I'll have a shot at it. I DO like the look of them.

I wonder when the first Chinese knock offs will raise their heads..
 
It's good to see some happy people getting their bikes ... they do look pretty cool in the pics... especially the one with black fenders and rack... Almost a ninja grocery getter... The all black bike will be the real ninja...

According to the last update #50, Sondors needs the shipping and remaining balance $$ ASAP. to get the last batch going... They even ask twice in pink... I paid for 2 RadRovers and I still haven't had a request for shipping , and they won't ask until they receive the bikes in Seattle. Isn't the $47,377 (73 Sondors perks) enough to get production going?

I have a challenge for IGG, since it has collected all the monies (They should know the total # of bikes ordered) ... Why not verify how many bikes have built and shipped out of China prior to giving Sondors anymore money... How hard can that be ... a couple of phone calls... right....
 
@wa5

We don't know when Sondors left the building, ditched his partners. All we know is Sondors had the money and didn't pay A2. Something went wrong, but Sondors had the money. Having the money is almost always better than not having the money.

You asserted, over and over, that he was running a 'long con'. Wow, I guess not. He was in China for weeks building bikes and people are getting bikes. I don't know who will get a bike, but he says he is building the fully paid first wave bikes. That we will probably know, in a month or so.

There are theories of law that say Sondors didn't defraud A2. The contract is technical with a benchmark. Did A2 meet the benchmark. It's not clear. One theory is as good as another. It will be years if there is a trial. That's about a 1%. The old judgment is hard to figure, but it was a corporate dispute that is very common.

You say he spent the money he owed A2 on the bikes. That seems to be true, but only if the A2 claims pan out. A judge refused to give money to A2, as I recall, money still held by IGG. So Sondors, who had control of the money, made a business judgement to keep all the money in the bike building fund. That would be a way to look at it. But how will we get an accounting? I don't know where the early withdrawals went.

For all the time you spent on the campaign, you should have bought a bike. Of course, we still don't know where those foreign orders are. Taste is taste, so no point in arguing that.

You would need to separate out what went wrong between the partners to assign blame, anyway. Hopp may have designed the bike, the mechanicals, but Sondors may have designed the aesthetics. I don't know. Hopp never complained all that much, never filed a lawsuit.

Sondors knows a lot about ebikes at this point. He knows how to make things in China. If A2 and Hopp had remained in the campaign, and A2 received the 10%, would the bike be as good as it is? A2 and IGG just wanted cash to skim. They didn't know anything about building in China, and they didn't care. They were going to stick Sondors with the real work, and he was just a little PR toy to Chris.Why would they have gotten along? The bike you see is the bike Sondors built, whatever Hopp did last year. Has Hopp made a claim? What was supposed to happen at the end of the campaign? What was Sondors supposed to be paid? We don't know anything aside from the tantrums of an ad agency.

The one thing you always lacked about this campaign was trust. The people who did trust Storm, for whatever reason, how did that work out for them?

For me, there's a lot to like about Storm. It would be fun to talk to him, walking along the beach. As for Chris? Nothing there, I can see. The brief interview with Court is revealing. A2 and IGG? Well, you decide...
 
Yep the rack and the fenders are not for me, took the mudguards off of my bike first thing, otherwise for a fatbike it is an attractive looking bike - any international donators got their bikes yet?
 
Yep the rack and the fenders are not for me, took the mudguards off of my bike first thing, otherwise for a fatbike it is an attractive looking bike - any international donators got their bikes yet?

What we got, in today's update, is another pack of lies and stalling tactics. To wit:

Scumbag Sondors said:
International shipping is happening as we write and we'll be emailing international backers in the next few days for estimated delivery timing.
USA shipping is still under way with black/yellow almost finished, black/black underway and blue/black as well as yellow/orange happening in the next few weeks.

If international shipping is "happening as we write" then they should at least know where the shipment is, what colours of ebikes it contains, and approximately when it should arrive. Instead we get a bunch of vague nonsense about "emailing international backers (...) for estimated delivery timing" "Estimated delivery timing??" Get real!

In the meantime the US shipments go on, clearly financed by the international buyers. With full details of colours etc.

Anyone smell BS yet? They have no intention of ever shipping anything to the international buyers. Ivars spent all the money and what little is left goes into the US shipments.
 
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