Solar Powered Homes

That's great for everyone except the handful of people that like to temperature control their abodes at night when the sun isn't out and wind velocity typically reduces.

There needs to be more attention given to methods for storing energy harvested during the day for use between 4 pm and 9 am.
We already baked that in.

I assumed that our wind turbines generated electricity 15 percent of the time. We have real-world figures from real wind turbines used today that the capacity factor of wind turbines is 26 to 52 percent. The other piece to this is we need a bigger more fully-connected grid to make this work well. Even if it isn't windy in California it probably is still windy in Oregon and Idaho.

Even if we didn't bake that in, I'd argue any day of the week that the electricity storage problem is an easier problem to solve than how to scrub CO2 from the atmosphere at large scales. Much less solving the problem of efficiently generating electricity from controlled fusion.
 
There is actually a "happy error" in my wind turbine calculations. The practical results of that error are that the theoretical capacity of land to hold wind turbines is about 1.75 times as high as I demonstrated.
 
That's great for everyone except the handful of people that like to temperature control their abodes at night when the sun isn't out and wind velocity typically reduces.

There needs to be more attention given to methods for storing energy harvested during the day for use between 4 pm and 9 am.
We know of a few ways to store energy like hydro or a solar pump filling a water tower that drives a turbine all night. Round and round we can go on losing energy ... unless there is a drought. :eek:
 
We know of a few ways to store energy like hydro or a solar pump filling a water tower that drives a turbine all night. Round and round we can go on losing energy ... unless there is a drought. :eek:
Pumped hydro is cost-efficient and known to work and we know how to build it. The downside is that you really only want to do it on tall dams and there aren't that many of them.
 
Oh, and the newest GE Wind Turbines are claiming a capacity factor of 60 to 65 percent -- coal-fired and nuclear plants are from 60 to 80 percent. On the average bigger and taller turbines will have a higher power production per acre. And at some point the towers will get tall enough to stack two or more turbines on them.
 
Oh, and the newest GE Wind Turbines are claiming a capacity factor of 60 to 65 percent -- coal-fired and nuclear plants are from 60 to 80 percent. On the average bigger and taller turbines will have a higher power production per acre. And at some point the towers will get tall enough to stack two or more turbines on them.
So there we go ... great example ... so even in the with driest desert you could pump compressed air to run off shore wind generators to produce electricity at night . No batteries or even water storage required. Just testing funding engineering marketing social acceptance government permitting materials shipping installing and lots more funding. Rinse and repeat.

We will need all the wind hydro solar and batteries we can get even if we limit ourselves to a few hours of peak production every day. And stogy old batteries are the new hot new technology for the decade or even for the new century.
 
Last edited:
You could you forward this to many people that could easily understand it, if only their paycheck didn't depend on their not understanding it as Upton Sinclair put in a century ago ... Manchin comes to mind today, but there are many.
That didn't come from "The Jungle" did it?
 
No. An essay I believe, but it was a long time ago that I read it.
It amazes Me the intelligence of most authors and actors,I can give two right off the bat H.G. Wells and Jules Verne, those two were very prescient- Kate Wilhelm and Janet Daly bring to mind on the other side of the coin They wrote without the usual Me first attitude.
 
Funny you should mention windmills.

My first observation is that you can do other things with the land you have wind farms on. Note the emphasis on wind farms.

Pretty standard engineering calculations at this point shows that a typical wind farm generates 1Mw per 0.75 acres.

Now there are 915 million acres of farmland in the United States (USDA).

Now through the magic of multiplication, if through some reason we decided that all farms should also be wind farms, we'd have a generating capacity from just wind turbines on farms of 686 million megawatts.

I note that the current generating capacity of the entire United States is about 1.1 million megawatts.

Of course, you do need to take into account the capacity and utilization factors. Even making a very conservative assumption that any given wind turbine would only be generating 15 percent of its capacity (real-world numbers are between 25 and 50 percent) we still are generating over 102 million megawatts -- approximately ninety times the current US generating capacity. Note that doesn't include existing hydropower and nuclear plants, and I reasonably assume we'd keep most of them for their useful lives.

I haven't even mentioned that we could also put wind turbine on the land that we use to grow cows. There are approximately 770 million acres of rangeland in the United States distinct from the farmland mentioned previously.

This of course assumes that we'd restructure our grid to distribute that energy efficiently. Given that our power grid is over a century old it is time for a remodel anyway and we might as well get it right.

So using 4th-grade math I've shown that we could get there with wind power and some slight remodeling of farmland. This is more rigorous work than I've ever seen from any of the naysayers who just say how it is impossible. The physics and the engineering work, and given the recent cost figures showing that on-shore wind is by far the cheapest source of electricity today I think it a safe bet that the economics work too. Notice that I left out offshore wind power too.

Now, back to the topic.

I'll do a similar calculation for solar power. Let us assume that we decide to put sunshades over all of the parking spaces in the United States. There are estimated to be between 800 million and 2 billion parking spaces in the United States. Pretty standard size for parking spaces is ten by twenty feet, so you can pack 225 parking spaces in an acre (I don't count the lanes you need to drive the parking space, and also ignore that a lot of parking spaces are compact and smaller -- for a Fermi number those two probably cancel out).
I'm also going to ignore multi-floor parking garages. My argument would be that if I use the lower number and make some reasonable assumptions about the prevalence of multi-floor parking garages the numbers again about work out.

That works out to about 3.6 million acres used for parking in the United States if you use the lower number.

Now generation per acre for PV is all over the place, with estimates from 0.1Mw/acre to 10Mw/acre -- I'd guess that is because they are including capacity factors in their figure, and capacity factors will vary by location far more for PV than for wind. Just to make this easy I am going to split the baby and use 1Mw/acre.

So you lead the conclusion that PV panels covering all parking in the United States would generate THREE TIMES (THREE TIMES!) the amount of electricity we currently generate.

My conclusion is that not only can we go to 100 percent renewables and generate just as much electricity, we'd have an insane amount of growth capacity to power all of those new electric cars we'd need too. And probably have a few centuries' of headroom for generating more electricity if we decide we need it. All at far lower costs than our current electricity generation systems.

Again, with 4th-grade math this is a no-brainer.
Only problem with all your equations. Just like with evolution ,it only works on paper . . Your problem with renewables is you can't store wind or Solar power . It also isn't a 24 hr a day power source. If areas where rain occurs for 2 weeks -2 months or in areas where it's cloudy and cold for months what then ? In a perfect situation Green energy takes a 1000 times the space to provide the same energy fuels and coal does . Plus like I said you can't store it in reserves for just in case .
Bottom line is there's no science I know of where you can make windmills or solar panels . As well as batteries , without using coal /oil and gas .
It's not the green I have a problem with . It's destroying the old current way before the new way is perfected . And seriously for what purpose ? The planet whether you believe it's dying or not can't be stopped by what is being proposed .
Musk stated awhile that one of his plants at the current production rate . Would have to produce batteries at a rate of 500 daily for 100 years . Do supply energy for just 1 Winter . For a city the size of NJ. Plus a battery made today that sat around being stored for just a few years would be worthless. So you simply can not store up green energy .
We also know that windmills fall apart after 15 years max. They also kill 100's of birds everyday they spin .

And for what purpose ? Where is all this pollution they cry about ? It's gone accept for countries that refuse to filter their processing plants .

Like I said : As a sideline it suffices . But does it ? How far can a car travel before it has to not only find a charging station . But stay there hours to fully recharge .

Butt the real bottom line is why ? I know there's chaos with the climate . But there always has been . C02 to not contributing to what we see going on. That's made up nonsense .

Finally why are you calling Wind and Solar renewable ? Both turbines and Solar panels can't be re-used and are starting to pile up . Even the Harvard study done by pro green energy professors. Admit that the amount of Land and the amount of energy needed has been grossly under-estimated
Watch Europe this winter : They are in trouble , and are just now realizing that green isn't going to cut it . They are desperate for Gas/oil and coal
 
Aside from transitioning to renewable, the elephant in the room is that world economies will have to abandon the growth principle on which they are based.
We simply cannot keep on growing the economy, it is just not sustainable. A new model is required.

There is a great comic book made in France by eminent researchers to make a lot of hardcore data be more palatable.
It has now been translated to English, it is full of good information :)
When I was a kid in the 70's . A clear cloudless sky had a grey cast to it . Today 50 years down the road . It's as blue as blue can be. Where is this pollution ? Because C02 isn't harming anything . In fact the world is greener then it's ever been :
 
Didn't take long for the pro ethanol proponents to get really quiet as they tried to roll that out. As other ideas progress/roll out, we may see some of the "green" choices being made today do the same. Don't get me wrong, if they can make it work cost effectively on both ends from production to end of life, I say go for it. Let's just try to keep it all transparent....
 
When I was a kid in the 70's . A clear cloudless sky had a grey cast to it . Today 50 years down the road . It's as blue as blue can be. Where is this pollution ? Because C02 isn't harming anything . In fact the world is greener then it's ever been :
I think a lot of this may have to do with where you are standing? 😁
 
That's great for everyone except the handful of people that like to temperature control their abodes at night when the sun isn't out and wind velocity typically reduces.

There needs to be more attention given to methods for storing energy harvested during the day for use between 4 pm and 9 am.
How do you store power ?? You can convert it and store it . But the problem with that is you loose 25% converting it back. That's the whole issue in a nutshell . Renewable energy is a Bull S term to deceive people . After all what is renewable ? A: You can't store the wind or the Sun . B: Power can't be stored only converted C: Solar panels and wind turbine blades can't be reused and they are creating a problem for disposal already . Imagine 20 years from now .

I seriously don't believe for a second that people who work on this for their living believe what they are dishing out to the populous . I seriously think they know like we can see it doesn't work . But if they can spin it long enough they can reduce life as we know it and get rid of many of us . That has been their desire since the first King and queen . The peasants are to costly . Keep enough to do our work and feed us . Then kill the rest . Fossil Fuels caused them to lose that control and the populations exploded .

Sounds conspiratorial , but isn't that exactly what this is leading to ?
 
I think a lot of this may have to do with where you are standing? 😁
LOL Seriously though Renewable energy isn't even renewable. What exactly is being renewed ? Technically the wind doesn't blow everyday and nor does the sun shine daily . You can't reuse the process or the equipment used for solar and wind . So what is it that's renewed ?? Only thing I can see that keeps renewing daily is the SPIN ;)
It's also coming out that most of the flooding and droughts are being caused by man himself . With the idea of seeding clouds and filling the skies with ash . They are doing this alot . It causes the snow to burn if you light it with a match . Sounds crazy but try it this winter . Shocked me as well
 
Last edited:
Didn't take long for the pro ethanol proponents to get really quiet as they tried to roll that out. As other ideas progress/roll out, we may see some of the "green" choices being made today do the same. Don't get me wrong, if they can make it work cost effectively on both ends from production to end of life, I say go for it. Let's just try to keep it all transparent....
Keep it transparent? You must believe man is capable of miracles :)
 
LOL Seriously though Renewable energy isn't even renewable. What exactly is being renewed ? Technically the wind doesn't blow everyday and nor does the sun shine daily . You can't reuse the process or the equipment used for solar and wind . So what is it that's renewed ?? Only thing I can see that keeps renewing daily is the SPIN ;)
It's also coming out that most of the flooding and droughts are being caused by man himself . With the idea of seeding clouds and filling the skies with ash .
Betting you have, but just in case, have you seen the projects playing with wave and tidal action? No not here today, but I would consider them both to be "renewable" as the term is used today. Both showing a lot of potential....
 
Maybe you should rest a bit
Why? No offense but you remind me of my BIL . He gets upset if someone disputes what he thinks . He doesn't take other views besides his own very well . I'm not being rude or vulgar . Just simply pointing out obvious issues . What's wrong with that ?
 
How do you store power ?? You can convert it and store it . But the problem with that is you loose 25% converting it back.
Many live off grid with minor lifestyle changes; I think most I have read live where a/c is not very important. I live where I don't want to be without a/c.

First, I don't believe solar/wind is anywhere near ready for prime time because of the variability of both sun and wind. Some of the storage methods with excess power used to fill elevated reservoirs for hydro during slack wind/solar are great solutuins, but not in the heartland; need enough water head.

The solution that says "improve the grid since it's aleays windy somewhere" isn't taking into account transmission loss over distance. Some one posted the new wind generators have 65ish capacity factor. Cool, I want my elec 100% of the time.

I've seen talk about our EVs become stored energy to get us through the night. Cool, but now I can't drive in the morning.

We don't have power issues around me (nuclear plant pretty close by) but if they start jacking with keeping the grid full around here, Generac is my solution.

Solar and lithium is a great solution for my van.
 
Back