Solar Powered Homes

[AHicks]

Didn't take long for the pro ethanol proponents to get really quiet as they tried to roll that out. As other ideas progress/roll out, we may see some of the "green" choices being made today do the same. Don't get me wrong, if they can make it work cost effectively on both ends from production to end of life, I say go for it. Let's just try to keep it all transparent....

 

[AHicks]

When I was a kid in the 70's . A clear cloudless sky had a grey cast to it . Today 50 years down the road . It's as blue as blue can be. Where is this pollution ? Because C02 isn't harming anything . In fact the world is greener then it's ever been :

I think a lot of this may have to do with where you are standing?

 

[Zekeer]

That's great for everyone except the handful of people that like to temperature control their abodes at night when the sun isn't out and wind velocity typically reduces.

There needs to be more attention given to methods for storing energy harvested during the day for use between 4 pm and 9 am.

How do you store power ?? You can convert it and store it . But the problem with that is you loose 25% converting it back. That's the whole issue in a nutshell . Renewable energy is a Bull S term to deceive people . After all what is renewable ? A: You can't store the wind or the Sun . B: Power can't be stored only converted C: Solar panels and wind turbine blades can't be reused and they are creating a problem for disposal already . Imagine 20 years from now .

I seriously don't believe for a second that people who work on this for their living believe what they are dishing out to the populous . I seriously think they know like we can see it doesn't work . But if they can spin it long enough they can reduce life as we know it and get rid of many of us . That has been their desire since the first King and queen . The peasants are to costly . Keep enough to do our work and feed us . Then kill the rest . Fossil Fuels caused them to lose that control and the populations exploded .

Sounds conspiratorial , but isn't that exactly what this is leading to ?

 

[Zekeer]

I think a lot of this may have to do with where you are standing?

LOL Seriously though Renewable energy isn't even renewable. What exactly is being renewed ? Technically the wind doesn't blow everyday and nor does the sun shine daily . You can't reuse the process or the equipment used for solar and wind . So what is it that's renewed ?? Only thing I can see that keeps renewing daily is the SPIN
It's also coming out that most of the flooding and droughts are being caused by man himself . With the idea of seeding clouds and filling the skies with ash . They are doing this alot . It causes the snow to burn if you light it with a match . Sounds crazy but try it this winter . Shocked me as well

 

[Zekeer]

Didn't take long for the pro ethanol proponents to get really quiet as they tried to roll that out. As other ideas progress/roll out, we may see some of the "green" choices being made today do the same. Don't get me wrong, if they can make it work cost effectively on both ends from production to end of life, I say go for it. Let's just try to keep it all transparent....

Keep it transparent? You must believe man is capable of miracles

 

[AHicks]

LOL Seriously though Renewable energy isn't even renewable. What exactly is being renewed ? Technically the wind doesn't blow everyday and nor does the sun shine daily . You can't reuse the process or the equipment used for solar and wind . So what is it that's renewed ?? Only thing I can see that keeps renewing daily is the SPIN
It's also coming out that most of the flooding and droughts are being caused by man himself . With the idea of seeding clouds and filling the skies with ash .

Betting you have, but just in case, have you seen the projects playing with wave and tidal action? No not here today, but I would consider them both to be "renewable" as the term is used today. Both showing a lot of potential....

 

[Gionnirocket]

Keep it transparent? You must believe man is capable of miracles

Maybe you should rest a bit

 

[Zekeer]

Maybe you should rest a bit

Why? No offense but you remind me of my BIL . He gets upset if someone disputes what he thinks . He doesn't take other views besides his own very well . I'm not being rude or vulgar . Just simply pointing out obvious issues . What's wrong with that ?

 

[Roamers]

How do you store power ?? You can convert it and store it . But the problem with that is you loose 25% converting it back.

Many live off grid with minor lifestyle changes; I think most I have read live where a/c is not very important. I live where I don't want to be without a/c.

First, I don't believe solar/wind is anywhere near ready for prime time because of the variability of both sun and wind. Some of the storage methods with excess power used to fill elevated reservoirs for hydro during slack wind/solar are great solutuins, but not in the heartland; need enough water head.

The solution that says "improve the grid since it's aleays windy somewhere" isn't taking into account transmission loss over distance. Some one posted the new wind generators have 65ish capacity factor. Cool, I want my elec 100% of the time.

I've seen talk about our EVs become stored energy to get us through the night. Cool, but now I can't drive in the morning.

We don't have power issues around me (nuclear plant pretty close by) but if they start jacking with keeping the grid full around here, Generac is my solution.

Solar and lithium is a great solution for my van.

 

[Gionnirocket]

Why? No offense but you remind me of my BIL . He gets upset if someone disputes what he thinks . He doesn't take other views besides his own very well . I'm not being rude or vulgar . Just simply pointing out obvious issues . What's wrong with that ?

Who's upset?
You're just a bit of a broken record and in my opinion part of the problem. In any case there's just no reason to stay on podium that long. And just incase you haven't noticed, no one here agrees with you.

 

[Zekeer]

Betting you have, but just in case, have you seen the projects playing with wave and tidal action? No not here today, but I would consider them both to be "renewable" as the term is used today. Both showing a lot of potential....

Potential is the key word . And at what cost ? From what little I have read on this . While it's renewable it's also quite inconsistent . The factories cost 10 times what a normal power plant would cost . It's very damaging to marine line . And the locations are limited . However research is a good thing . But they are funding this all with mainly middle class money . It's definitely limited to areas . In the meantime they are destroying the sources of income to fund these things . By taking away the middle class's means of employment .
That's my whole issue. This technology isn't a wow moment . Not enough to eliminate fuel use like they are doing .
From everything I have looked at . The Benefits of all this green energy don't outweigh the overall cost . Plus the goal is supposed to be to save the planet . Yet they appear to be destroying the life it supports along the way .
The real energy we should be working on is nuclear . It's by far the least expensive . We have the safe guards and technology . Very little can't be reused .
Yet they give the excuse that someone might use it to destroy . Doesn't that already exist? Seriously what's the difference of one big bomb verses 2 to destroy a whole nation ? Of the 3 lets say ways to supply energy . From what I see Nuclear is by far the best over all method .
The problem is that it doesn't make the Powers that be Money

After all an Al Gore couldn't become a Multi Millionaire by claiming the planet was going to explode . Like he has for the last 30 years .

 

[Zekeer]

Who's upset?
You're just a bit of a broken record and in my opinion part of the problem. In any case there's just no reason to stay on podium that long. And just incase you haven't noticed, no one here agrees with you.

No body agrees with me ?? I mean this with no offense . As a kid , a third grader . Our history teacher told the class never to follow along with what the crowd believes is the best way . As history itself shows us that whatever the masses are convinced of. Has always turned out to be the wrong thing . He said the proof of that is public opinion changes constantly . And is , and I quote him. Never based on intelligent facts and evidence . Because you just can't educate the masses . They daydream every 20 seconds .
So based on Mr. Clark's advice . Nobody agrees is a Good thing Just saying
In my short life span I can point out the masses believed based on what they were told . We'd enter a new ice age by 2000. Then it went to Y2K , 9/11 means Islam means peace , Global warming , and finally Carbon we all exhale is destroying the planet's atmosphere . OOOH yeah Russia is the 2nd most dangerous thing on the planet.
Just saying . None of those things were true and before it was proven they were wrong . Most by a vast majority believed it . I mean come on today the masses believe that there are many genders . That a man exists who bares children and lactates .

 

[Gionnirocket]

No body agrees with me ?? I mean this with no offense . As a kid , a third grader . Our history teacher told the class never to follow along with what the crowd believes is the best way . As history itself shows us that whatever the masses are convinced of. Has always turned out to be the wrong thing . He said the proof of that is public opinion changes constantly . And is , and I quote him. Never based on intelligent facts and evidence . Because you just can't educate the masses . They daydream every 20 seconds .
So based on Mr. Clark's advice . Nobody agrees is a Good thing Just saying
In my short life span I can point out the masses believed based on what they were told . We'd enter a new ice age by 2000. Then it went to Y2K , 9/11 means Islam means peace , Global warming , and finally Carbon we all exhale is destroying the planet's atmosphere . OOOH yeah Russia is the 2nd most dangerous thing on the planet.
Just saying . None of those things were true and before it was proven they were wrong . Most by a vast majority believed it . I mean come on today the masses believe that there are many genders . That a man exists who bares children and lactates .

I also remember 3rd grade and reading comprehension.
No one here* agrees with you.
And there's plenty of people in your corner so how do you know that you're not the sheep following the flawed facts blindly.
So if we are the ignorant, then it is with bliss.... So please move on as you're stinking up the place with your poop_pee talk (brought it to 3rd grade for you)

 

[Art Deco]

I also remember 3rd grade and reading comprehension.
No one here* agrees with you.
And there's plenty of people in your corner so how do you know that you're not the sheep following the flawed facts blindly.
So if we are the ignorant, then it is with bliss.... So please move on as you're stinking up the place with your poop_pee talk (brought it to 3rd grade for you)

I would usually say ' tell us how you really feel' but with @Gionnirocket , that isn't required ... or wise

 

[Art Deco]

Anyway and even further /offtopic, did anyone else see the Bloomburg article on people behind on utility's bills?

A ‘Tsunami of Shutoffs’: 20 Million US Homes Are Behind on Energy Bills

Surging electricity prices have spurred the worst-ever crisis in late utility payments.

www.bloomberg.com

 

[AHicks]

Anyway and even further /offtopic, did anyone else see the Bloomburg article on people behind on utility's bills?

A ‘Tsunami of Shutoffs’: 20 Million US Homes Are Behind on Energy Bills

Surging electricity prices have spurred the worst-ever crisis in late utility payments.

www.bloomberg.com

I did not, but if it's anything like the folks in Detroit feeling they shouldn't have to pay for water, that water is some sort of basic right, I'm likely gad I didn't.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

Only problem with all your equations. Just like with evolution ,it only works on paper . . Your problem with renewables is you can't store wind or Solar power . It also isn't a 24 hr a day power source. If areas where rain occurs for 2 weeks -2 months or in areas where it's cloudy and cold for months what then ? In a perfect situation Green energy takes a 1000 times the space to provide the same energy fuels and coal does . Plus like I said you can't store it in reserves for just in case .
Bottom line is there's no science I know of where you can make windmills or solar panels . As well as batteries , without using coal /oil and gas .
It's not the green I have a problem with . It's destroying the old current way before the new way is perfected . And seriously for what purpose ? The planet whether you believe it's dying or not can't be stopped by what is being proposed .
Musk stated awhile that one of his plants at the current production rate . Would have to produce batteries at a rate of 500 daily for 100 years . Do supply energy for just 1 Winter . For a city the size of NJ. Plus a battery made today that sat around being stored for just a few years would be worthless. So you simply can not store up green energy .
We also know that windmills fall apart after 15 years max. They also kill 100's of birds everyday they spin .

And for what purpose ? Where is all this pollution they cry about ? It's gone accept for countries that refuse to filter their processing plants .

Like I said : As a sideline it suffices . But does it ? How far can a car travel before it has to not only find a charging station . But stay there hours to fully recharge .

Butt the real bottom line is why ? I know there's chaos with the climate . But there always has been . C02 to not contributing to what we see going on. That's made up nonsense .

Finally why are you calling Wind and Solar renewable ? Both turbines and Solar panels can't be re-used and are starting to pile up . Even the Harvard study done by pro green energy professors. Admit that the amount of Land and the amount of energy needed has been grossly under-estimated
Watch Europe this winter : They are in trouble , and are just now realizing that green isn't going to cut it . They are desperate for Gas/oil and coal

So much wrong here.

I'll start off with the storage issue. I assumed in the figures I presented that wind generation only produced energy 15 percent of the time, and I assumed a well-connected power grid. Certainly you can't assume that it would not be windy at any given point of time all over the country? We also have operated wind turbines for many years and have good numbers on how often they generate electricity in the aggregate, and it is roughly 25 to 50 percent of the time. So a 15 percent scale back is actually very conservative.

Bottom line is there's no science I know of where you can make windmills or solar panels . As well as batteries , without using coal /oil and gas .

The energy inputs for wind turbines and solar panels and batteries are nearly all electricity. Unless coal electrons are different from solar electrons (they aren't) it doesn't matter where the energy input comes from.

So you simply can not store up green energy .

Battery costs per watt-hour are halving approximately every four years, and have done so for the last thirty years. Watt-hours per kilogram are also improving at a slower rate. There is no physics reason to believe that won't continue for some decades to come. Batteries have no moving parts except electrons and so are very amenable to being manufactured at scale in automated factories. So there is every reason to believe that even if batteries aren't economically feasible in some applications today, they will very likely be in the near future.

Again I note that halving in cost every four years implies that your costs per watt-hour will be less than 1% of today's in thirty years.

I know there's chaos with the climate . But there always has been . C02 to not contributing to what we see going on. That's made up nonsense .

1. It has been well-established for over 100 years that CO2 levels in the atmosphere warm the planet, and on the average on time scales of millions of years or less higher CO2 levels are correlated with higher temperatures and vice versa.
2. We know that CO2 levels have increased dramatically since preindustrial times, and most dramatically in the last thirty years as many parts of the world industrialized.
3. We know from the isotope mix of atmospheric CO2 that recent increases of CO2 are 100 percent attributable to burning fossil fuels.
4. We know that 99 percent of the world's glaciers are receding. This is a worldwide phenomenon and the only explanation we have for it is increasing CO2 levels warming the planet.

Which one of those things are wrong? More than one has to be for it to be "made up nonsense".

Finally why are you calling Wind and Solar renewable ? Both turbines and Solar panels can't be re-used and are starting to pile up .

Because all of those things can be recycled. And are in some cases but not yet all.

I'm going to make this calculation brutally simple and explain to you why fossil fuels are screwed in the short term, and likely are screwed in many cases today.

1. I'll start with an obvious but important observation: the marginal costs of operating solar or wind are far lower than fossil fuels or nuclear. There is no fuel requirements, personnel requirements for operating the facilities are far, far less, and there is far less maintenance. For all practical purposes marginal costs of generating wind are tiny and for solar are pretty close to zero.
2. Both wind and solar are making remarkable progress reducing costs. Solar power has halved in cost per watt approximately every four years for the last fifty years. There is no reason to believe that those cost trends can't continue for decades to come. There is no imaginable technological pathway for reducing the costs of fossil fuels or nuclear at a comparable velocity.
3. If you had ten billion dollars to invest in making electricity today you'd invest it in solar or wind. That's because you will start making electricity and selling it sooner (typically less than a year from plonking down money to selling electrons), that's because the cost of the plant is less so you can sell more watt-hours for your ten billion dollars, and also because your operating costs far lower. It is really a no brainer. In fact, it is such a no-brainer that a lot of older fossil fuel and nuclear plants are considered stranded assets because they can't sell electricity at competitive prices.
4. Finally, and to tie a few pieces together: one risk you run with building a nuclear or fossil fuel plant today is that you will be screwed fifteen or twenty years from now: it is very likely that newer PV solar plant backed up with batteries of comparable scale will generate electricity much cheaper than you can and you will not be able to compete, at all. Whereas since the marginal cost of your existing wind or solar plant is very small and you can compete and keep operating even if electricity is less expensive.

 

[Art Deco]

I did not, but if it's anything like the folks in Detroit feeling they shouldn't have to pay for water, that water is some sort of basic right, I'm likely gad I didn't.

This one is mostly heating and air-conditioning bills from the collections point of view. Quote 'US households owe about $16 billion in late energy bills, double the pre-pandemic total ... The average balance owed has climbed 97% since 2019, to $792. “

 

[Zekeer]

Anyway and even further /offtopic, did anyone else see the Bloomburg article on people behind on utility's bills?

A ‘Tsunami of Shutoffs’: 20 Million US Homes Are Behind on Energy Bills

Surging electricity prices have spurred the worst-ever crisis in late utility payments.

www.bloomberg.com

People can't afford it . Maybe they need to install a Turbin in the back yard and get some plexi LOL

 

[Mr. Coffee]

I did not, but if it's anything like the folks in Detroit feeling they shouldn't have to pay for water, that water is some sort of basic right, I'm likely gad I didn't.

Keep in mind that in some parts of the country people do not pay for water and it is considered a basic right. Note that there is considerable political effort in Utah to implement water metering as a measure to save water. If I remember my history (reading Cadillac Desert) at one point water metering was unconstitutional in Utah and Nevada.