Shift gears or raise and lower levels

[Ed D]

I took my first ride on my new ebike and I found, for me, it seemed to be easier to push the button and go from level 1 to 2 rather than shifting my gears. As of now I'd consider staying in a mid gear and increasing the level when approach a hill or a slow incline. My question, is this a good idea, will it impact the motor system because i'm moving levels up and down more often? Any advice is greatly appreciated.

Ed

 

[rich c]

It will definitely shorten battery life and build more heat in the controller and motor.

 

[Barry S]

Aside from hardware impact, what are you personally looking to get out of your ride? If you're looking for the exercise element then I would recommend finding a better gear and keep up your cadence. if near the end of a tiring ride and you don't have much left in you then find a kinder gear AND take the PAS up a level. I'm getting an ebike to help me on a hill that I've given up on. If it can do that, then I'm adding that much more exercise to my commute even if it's assisted.

 

[christob]

I use a combo of both, with some frequency on most rides... I do want an exercise value, so I often alternate between 0, 1 and 2 mostly (of 5 levels) based in inclines I'm facing, or fatigue... AND I change thru my gears (10 -- usually staying between 3 and 8 or 9) quite a bit. Otherwise, staying in a mid gear and relying on assist changes, I find too much time where the gear becomes too easy and pedaling is sort of a comical waste of movement---pedals just flying around with no discernible resistance to pedal against.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

How well that approach works depends on how long and steep the hill is, how powerful your bike is, and how much you weigh.

 

[Ed D]

I'm not typically out in the woods on steep bike trails. I tend to be riding mostly gradual inclines in the woods or on the road. In an hour ride I may change the level from 1 to 2 and back maybe 5 or 6 times usually between level 1 and 2. I weigh 200 and have plenty of ebike power 750watt motor and 48V/20a 960wh battery.
I rarely see myself using levels 4 or 5 unless I hit a very steep hill. I had two knee replacements within the last year and I'm using the ebike as a form of rehab. I may get back to powering up a step hill, but that is not an option right now. I do not want to burn out the motor or battery prematurely by overusing the level changes.

Continued comments and advice are welcome.

 

[Reid]

I do it constantly, going from Eco and up to S and back again. It harms nothing. It is no way to maximize range on battery, but most of us are not interested in maxing the range.

It is not going to harm your bike to use its electric drive option vigorously. It is designed to take it.

For relatively-max range, turn off Torque sensor and use plain ol' Cadence-only, and...pedal more, of course!

Cadence-only sensor is what I generally use. I adjust the assist level to my current desire, depending on how hard I wish to pedal. Am limited by knee injury, anyway.

Cadence-only sensor uses less current, for instance; it maxes out at 15A in S, as compared against 20A when you add in the Torque sensor.

Cadence-only sensor is less draining of the battery in all other settings, too. For instance, in ECO it limits the current to no more than 5A. In Level 1 the current is limited to about 7A* (I think) and Level 2, 10A (something like that) and Level 3, 12A and in S, it allows up to 15A.

And if you merely are turning the pedals, or a slightly-dragging freewheel turns the pedals while you air your soles in the breeze, you will draw the allowed-current from your xx-amp hour battery IF the load applied asks for/demands that much current.

BUT if you have the bike in ECO, you may be going 20mph on the level and definitely pedaling to get that 20-per, yet only drawing down the battery at a gentle, life-sparing 5A rate.

Lower current draw is said to extend lipo life.

The two sensors add, the Torque atop the Cadence. Turn on Torque sensing and you up the maximum possible Sport current, from 15A to 20A.

Cadence sensing is always "there," and Torque sensing, when enabled, stacks on top of Cadence sensing, so to speak, if I am not mistaken (I stand and request to be corrected).

*am too lazy today to go and run the bike at the various levels to verify the current allowed by Cadence sensor-only mode. But you can! that "7" may be "8". At any rate, Cadence sensor is dumb in its way but smart for maxing battery range, as you tend to use less current.

BTW: it is not "miles per Volt" that makes most sense in relating economy to others, but Watt-hours per mile, just like the display in its secondary mode (push ON and + together) directly informs, because Watt-hours is the same unit of measurement as the battery capacity is rated by. For instance, if your battery can provide 500 Watt-hours in actual practice, and you are drawing only 10 Watt-hours per mile, you KNOW with a certainty that your battery will last for 50 miles.

My own bike's battery, in a deliberate full drain test some time ago, provided just about but not quite, 500 useful Wh. Past that, it was easier to just shut it off and pedal. That 500WH real life figure will continue to decline with time and use as my bike's battery ages.

 

[VirgilCaine]

I

I took my first ride on my new ebike and I found, for me, it seemed to be easier to push the button and go from level 1 to 2 rather than shifting my gears. As of now I'd consider staying in a mid gear and increasing the level when approach a hill or a slow incline. My question, is this a good idea, will it impact the motor system because i'm moving levels up and down more often? Any advice is greatly appreciated.

Ed

I have basically the same question, except I'm usually alternating between power off and Level one. Yesterday in rolling terrain, I was constantly hitting power on/power off and it occurred to me that I might be better off minimizing my assist level button and do more shifting.
I tend to get in one gear and stay in it to decrease wear on the drivetrain, but I'd rather wear out the drivetrain than the motor.

 

[harryS]

We have more people riding ebikes unfamiliar with gears. It's less wear on the motor if you start off in a lower gear (and add pedal power), shifting up to higher gears as you gain speed. After all, this is what regular bikers do to put less wear on their legs.

Some riders just stay in a middle gear though, and they don't go very fast (I'm looking at my lovely wife), but they will shift power levels for hills, wind, etc. That's OK, because the speed is low enough, and the gear is high enough that the motor isn't being lugged.

Me, I find shifting part of the fun of riding. I enjoy a well tuned bike where I can flick either the front (if it has one) or rear derailleur, hear the clickety click, and feel the change in pedal effort, even with motor assist.

 

[Bruce Arnold]

I do it constantly, going from Eco and up to S and back again. It harms nothing. It is no way to maximize range on battery, but most of us are not interested in maxing the range.

It is not going to harm your bike to use its electric drive option vigorously. It is designed to take it.

For relatively-max range, turn off Torque sensor and use plain ol' Cadence-only, and...pedal more, of course!

Cadence-only sensor is what I generally use. I adjust the assist level to my current desire, depending on how hard I wish to pedal. Am limited by knee injury, anyway.

Cadence-only sensor uses less current, for instance; it maxes out at 15A in S, as compared against 20A when you add in the Torque sensor.

Cadence-only sensor is less draining of the battery in all other settings, too. For instance, in ECO it limits the current to no more than 5A. In Level 1 the current is limited to about 7A* (I think) and Level 2, 10A (something like that) and Level 3, 12A and in S, it allows up to 15A.

And if you merely are turning the pedals, or a slightly-dragging freewheel turns the pedals while you air your soles in the breeze, you will draw the allowed-current from your xx-amp hour battery IF the load applied asks for/demands that much current.

BUT if you have the bike in ECO, you may be going 20mph on the level and definitely pedaling to get that 20-per, yet only drawing down the battery at a gentle, life-sparing 5A rate.

Lower current draw is said to extend lipo life.

The two sensors add, the Torque atop the Cadence. Turn on Torque sensing and you up the maximum possible Sport current, from 15A to 20A.

Cadence sensing is always "there," and Torque sensing, when enabled, stacks on top of Cadence sensing, so to speak, if I am not mistaken (I stand and request to be corrected).

*am too lazy today to go and run the bike at the various levels to verify the current allowed by Cadence sensor-only mode. But you can! that "7" may be "8". At any rate, Cadence sensor is dumb in its way but smart for maxing battery range, as you tend to use less current.

BTW: it is not "miles per Volt" that makes most sense in relating economy to others, but Watt-hours per mile, just like the display in its secondary mode (push ON and + together) directly informs, because Watt-hours is the same unit of measurement as the battery capacity is rated by. For instance, if your battery can provide 500 Watt-hours in actual practice, and you are drawing only 10 Watt-hours per mile, you KNOW with a certainty that your battery will last for 50 miles.

My own bike's battery, in a deliberate full drain test some time ago, provided just about but not quite, 500 useful Wh. Past that, it was easier to just shut it off and pedal. That 500WH real life figure will continue to decline with time and use as my bike's battery ages.

I've been meaning to try cadence-only to see what it's like. This inspires me to get started.

 

[Bruce Arnold]

I took my first ride on my new ebike and I found, for me, it seemed to be easier to push the button and go from level 1 to 2 rather than shifting my gears. As of now I'd consider staying in a mid gear and increasing the level when approach a hill or a slow incline. My question, is this a good idea, will it impact the motor system because i'm moving levels up and down more often? Any advice is greatly appreciated.

Ed

My wife prefers to stay in mid-gears and use the PAS settings. I like to use both. I tend to change gears more than PAS settings but will do both many times in a ride. I have found no drawback to either method. Sometimes I try to maximize battery life, sometimes speed, sometimes ease of pedaling, sometimes exercise value. Have fun playing with both!

 

[Chris Hammond]

My bias is the more novice riders should get comfortable shifting gears and using a bike more naturally. It will likely improve their ebike experience over time. It will also get them far more familiar with the biking, and allow them to enjoy opportunities when they are not on an ebike. Shifting gears seems so basic to most experienced riders, but if you have ever tried to teach anyone to ride (ie. kids/ spouse), then you quickly realize that it is not at all intuitive for beginners. There's also the issues of wear and tear on components.

 

[Alex M]

I took my first ride on my new ebike and I found, for me, it seemed to be easier to push the button and go from level 1 to 2 rather than shifting my gears.

You're not the first one to discover this ...
Of course it is easier to push the button. More smooth, too - there is no click-clang of chain changing the position, fraction of second with zero propulsion, and sometimes not settling on the next gear properly. Less physical effort too, so there is less instability of balance or steering.

No, you're not hurting the motor by doing this - not always, anyway. To damage the motor, you need to abuse it, overheat, stall etc.

Like others noted, by upping the PAS (instead of down-shifting) you use more battery, so potentially you'll use its maximum number of cycles "sooner", but there is a good chance that battery will die after 3-5 years before 2,000 cycles or whatever number of cycles the manufacturer promised when you bought it.

By lowering the PAS you don't do any harm to electrical parts, and saving the drive train from wear.

 

[Nova Haibike]

For me it rather depends on how long the slope or hill is, how fresh or tired I am, and how much remaining battery I have available. Today I rode just over 65 miles on a rail trail. There were very short slopes, and lots of long shallow grades. The first half I stayed in the lowest assist setting to conserve the battery (my bike has a Yamaha mid-drive), and used the gears, riding it as a normal bike. On the way back I was liberal with the power settings, often bumping it up to get over inclines without losing speed.

 

[Windward]

I do it constantly, going from Eco and up to S and back again. It harms nothing. It is no way to maximize range on battery, but most of us are not interested in maxing the range.

It is not going to harm your bike to use its electric drive option vigorously. It is designed to take it.

For relatively-max range, turn off Torque sensor and use plain ol' Cadence-only, and...pedal more, of course!

Cadence-only sensor is what I generally use. I adjust the assist level to my current desire, depending on how hard I wish to pedal. Am limited by knee injury, anyway.

Cadence-only sensor uses less current, for instance; it maxes out at 15A in S, as compared against 20A when you add in the Torque sensor.

Cadence-only sensor is less draining of the battery in all other settings, too. For instance, in ECO it limits the current to no more than 5A. In Level 1 the current is limited to about 7A* (I think) and Level 2, 10A (something like that) and Level 3, 12A and in S, it allows up to 15A.

And if you merely are turning the pedals, or a slightly-dragging freewheel turns the pedals while you air your soles in the breeze, you will draw the allowed-current from your xx-amp hour battery IF the load applied asks for/demands that much current.

BUT if you have the bike in ECO, you may be going 20mph on the level and definitely pedaling to get that 20-per, yet only drawing down the battery at a gentle, life-sparing 5A rate.

Lower current draw is said to extend lipo life.

The two sensors add, the Torque atop the Cadence. Turn on Torque sensing and you up the maximum possible Sport current, from 15A to 20A.

Cadence sensing is always "there," and Torque sensing, when enabled, stacks on top of Cadence sensing, so to speak, if I am not mistaken (I stand and request to be corrected).

*am too lazy today to go and run the bike at the various levels to verify the current allowed by Cadence sensor-only mode. But you can! that "7" may be "8". At any rate, Cadence sensor is dumb in its way but smart for maxing battery range, as you tend to use less current.

BTW: it is not "miles per Volt" that makes most sense in relating economy to others, but Watt-hours per mile, just like the display in its secondary mode (push ON and + together) directly informs, because Watt-hours is the same unit of measurement as the battery capacity is rated by. For instance, if your battery can provide 500 Watt-hours in actual practice, and you are drawing only 10 Watt-hours per mile, you KNOW with a certainty that your battery will last for 50 miles.

My own bike's battery, in a deliberate full drain test some time ago, provided just about but not quite, 500 useful Wh. Past that, it was easier to just shut it off and pedal. That 500WH real life figure will continue to decline with time and use as my bike's battery ages.

I have Giant Full E+ 2018, great bike but a bit dissapointing with range. I bought this bike to ride here at the Appalachian North Carolina mountains, I am 200 lbs 60 years old I don’t ride in challenging trails but I ride in gravel and dirt roads. These back roads are not very steep as they are made for cars, the steepest uphill was a 2000 feet altitude gain in about 9 miles. So for example a ride through back roads from Linville N.C. to Blowing Rock which is according to any map 18 to 20 Miles and only a 100 feet gain in altitude, but up and down roads between them, I can hardly make it one way, at times the battery runs out before I get there.

I ride are to explore, get out of the house, do exercise, enjoy nature etc etc. I can ride a non electric bike for 40 miles or more in flat cities, but I enjoy the mountains and the back roads and I need a longer range than 20 miles. This limits my outings to 10 miles each way. If I could achieve 15 miles minimum each way would be great so 30 miles total.

What can I do to extend range other than pedal more, Giant has three levels, eco-normal-sport, I mostly ride with eco but on uphills I need to go between normal and sport. Suggestions for longer range?

 

[VirgilCaine]

Try staying out of the sport setting...I know that road, the uphills will suck your battery down in a hurry in the sport setting. Air up to max psi and ride in a lower gear on the hills.

 

[rich c]

I have Giant Full E+ 2018, great bike but a bit dissapointing with range. I bought this bike to ride here at the Appalachian North Carolina mountains, I am 200 lbs 60 years old I don’t ride in challenging trails but I ride in gravel and dirt roads. These back roads are not very steep as they are made for cars, the steepest uphill was a 2000 feet altitude gain in about 9 miles. So for example a ride through back roads from Linville N.C. to Blowing Rock which is according to any map 18 to 20 Miles and only a 100 feet gain in altitude, but up and down roads between them, I can hardly make it one way, at times the battery runs out before I get there.

I ride are to explore, get out of the house, do exercise, enjoy nature etc etc. I can ride a non electric bike for 40 miles or more in flat cities, but I enjoy the mountains and the back roads and I need a longer range than 20 miles. This limits my outings to 10 miles each way. If I could achieve 15 miles minimum each way would be great so 30 miles total.

What can I do to extend range other than pedal more, Giant has three levels, eco-normal-sport, I mostly ride with eco but on uphills I need to go between normal and sport. Suggestions for longer range?

Do they have an optional bigger battery pack? What size battery pack do you have? Do you shift to stay at optimum cadence?

 

[VirgilCaine]

It may also help to lockout your suspension.

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

Hub drives are lot more forgiving of wrong gearing.
Mid-drives will perform excellent or dismal , depending on the gear you're in. It is very important to be in the right gear to get max torque out of any mid-drive (except some like Bafang or Cyclone motors).

I think it is good to practice and hone some fine shifting skills but many people (like my aunt) simply care about riding and getting some exercise, they don't want to master shifting techniques or ride skills. They have not ridden a bicycle in 25-30 years, in that case, a strong hub drive 500+Watts at 48V and a throttle would enable them to enjoy riding a bicycle again.

PS: Proper shifting on a mid-drive will spread the wear on all the sprockets (rear cassette) and minimize drive-train damage and improve efficiency.

 

[Windward]

Do they have an optional bigger battery pack? What size battery pack do you have? Do you shift to stay at optimum cadence?

Giant full e comes with a 36 volt 400 W 11.3AH. I am shifting all the time and trying to use the least the "sport" level Giant has three Sport-Normal and ECO. I actually turn it off during flat, and downhill. I have learned to divide by 5 the miles left on the display, so if in sport says 35 miles, that means there are 7 miles left uphill.