Seeking Recommendations

[expos4ever]

Hi, I am considering an e-bike primarily for commuting. My commute is about 30 km each way (yes, rather long) and while it would be on pavement, some of the roads / paths here are pretty rough. I am 99% sure I want both a mid-drive and suspension, the latter to eat up all the bumps that rattle my teeth. I would also need enough cargo capacity for a laptop.

While I have not biked much in the last 8 years, I have been an avid rider in the past, logging well over 5,000 km annually for about 15 years on a relatively high performance road bike (aluminum frame, carbon fiber fork). I believe it would be desireable to have a mid-drive at least partly because it supposedly more closely emulates the "feel" of a regular bicycle.

The Specialized Turbo Vado 4.0 appears to be a good option, but I was hoping to not have to shell out quite so many dinaros. Any suggestions welcomed. Thanks.

 

[Dewey]

I wouldn't discount hub motors if they are paired with a torque sensor, like the Zen Shakti although that bike has reportedly only just entered production so is unavailable right now.

 

[indianajo]

While I love my hub motors for replaceability and lack of display, I ride ~2000 miles a year. O.P. will ride ~8000 miles a year. I wore out the gears in an ebikeling hub motor @4500 miles. I wore out the clutch in a mac12t hub motor in about 3000 miles. So I'm not saying any hub motor will last 8000 miles. You can ride a worn out hubmotor home unpowered without drag. Yes, you can change hub motors out in a day or two if you keep a built wheel in the garage. Bosch mids are going more like 15000 miles or more, as much as I hate their projecting display that prevents flipping the bike to change a flat. Also changing chains take me longer (1500 miles or less in 9 speed up chain) than changing a power wheel. WIth a hub motor I'm getting more like 5000 miles on an 8 speed chain. Snapping & unsnapping the master link on a chain is not made for my light duty arms, and the industrial cotter pin master links won't pass through a derailleur takeup.
There are also parts like spokes, rims, cranks, cables that are made of better materials in the upper tier vendors: trek, giant, specialized, gazelle, yamaha, kona. Specialized has had some cracked frames reported, otherwise a lot of happy customers. My yuba was upper tier, parts are holding up @~9000 miles, but not everybody wants a fixey cargo bike. Note there is a real difference between suspension fork life on cheap bikes and the expensive ones, too. Read MTB forums for experts on that.
The hub motor bike with a torque sensor that appears to be stocked in depth is the surface604 line. They had 33 complaints on "known problems & solutions" brand thread last time I looked. I'd like a torque sensor, ride my yuba with throttle only. I hated PAS, too fast in level 1, accelerates too fast to speed, and the stupid crank sensor kept getting snagged in sticks & grass stems. People stack sticks on the sidewalk here on garbage day, on roads that are too busy to ride the car lanes. Like when I do ride the car lane, people brush pass me with 2" clearance and 20 mph speed differential.

 

[m@Robertson]

I have about 7000 miles on my most-road-worn geared hub motor. But I have also killed one right in that range - not internally but a power connection among the very thin wires running from motor to battery has gone wonky, so its dead as a doornail.

A torque sensor would not be enough to get me to choose one motor style over the other. I would say though that trying to emulate the feel of a regular bicycle is akin to buying an automobile in 1920 whose performance is more like your horse buggy. Treat your ebike as a not-a-bicycle, bicycle-shaped object. An entirely new transportation system. You will find plenty of ways to get good, strong exercise. You will be far from the first cyclist to make the switch. But, typically, the worst ebike advice you can get comes from cyclists who have their heads stuck in an analog-bicycle mindset.

I would choose the motor based on what kind of riding I am doing. Hills? Mid drive. Trails? Mid drive. Flat paved land? Direct drive or geared hubs. Your biggest issue will be finding a bicycle that has quality cycling components on it. Manufactured ebikes in the 'affordable' category have all their money sunk into the electrical bits. Things like drivetrain quality - particularly for a hub motor that needs no chain/cassette etc. - are particularly egregious in this regard. You might consider taking a bike you own and converting it.

How To Build An Ebike From Scratch: Planning

We’re building a bike! Lets do it smart though. We’ll see a simple project management framework. There’s even a complete parts list here.

talesontwowheels.com

 

[indianajo]

I would choose the motor based on what kind of riding I am doing. Hills? Mid drive. Trails? Mid drive. Flat paved land? Direct drive or geared hubs.

West Coasters on this forum have this "hill=mid drive" obsession. I crossed 80 hills today with my geared hub drive, which I do twice weekly in the summer. Some are up to 15% grade. Total weight is up to 330 lb. ( I carry groceries & ag supplies uphill). What geared hub motors will NOT do is climb 1000' in an hour. They don't cool as well as mid drives and can burn a winding in the sierras & rockies. DD hub drives can cool okay but use too many watthours climbing hills slowly. I'm 1500 miles from the Rockies & I'm certainly not riding my bike there.

 

[m@Robertson]

Its not just west coasters. Its the entire bike industry, and for good reason. On the opposite side are a few curmudgeons who refuse to accept this.

That whole "1000' in an hour" bit is not something I have heard from anyone else but is repeated by @indianajo repeatedly as if its some kind of accepted piece of information, which it isn't. He keeps telling us how great his hub drives are in whatever adverse conditions he deigns to relate, but going hand in hand with that praise is his admission that he's on his 3rd motor, having fried his first two. Is that an acceptable or normal failure rate? I'd say no not for any bike I have to depend on, but its not my call what other people find acceptable.

And riding cargo bikes myself, with system weights in the 300-550 lb range being common, I can say his perspective when factoring in those sorts of loads is not unique.

 

[expos4ever]

Hi everyone, thanks for your feedback, much appreciated.

 

[indianajo]

Its not just west coasters. Its the entire bike industry, and for good reason. On the opposite side are a few curmudgeons who refuse to accept this.

That whole "1000' in an hour" bit is not something I have heard from anyone else but is repeated by @indianajo repeatedly as if its some kind of accepted piece of information, which it isn't. He keeps telling us how great his hub drives are in whatever adverse conditions he deigns to relate, but going hand in hand with that praise is his admission that he's on his 3rd motor, having fried his first two. Is that an acceptable or normal failure rate?

Mac stated the "1000' in an hour at low speed" limit to TJ, who I quote.
The bike industry has to sell into CA, OR, WA, ID, MT where hub motor burnout is a risk. Those of us who don't live there don't have to buy a mid drive bike with a display that needs a tow truck when it gets a flat because you can't flip it upside down on the seat & handlebar. Nor do we have to change chains yearly (which takes me longer than changing a power wheel). Since the burglar stole all my chain tools after the first change @ 5000 miles, and it takes 2 chains spliced to fit my bike, cost of the first chain change was $90. Plus three days with the bike disabled because my industrial chain breaker didn't work, the schwinn chain breaker didn't work, and my industrial dodge chain stretcher didn't work.
I've fried zero hub motors. The first $221 ebikeling one wore out the gears @~4500 miles. The 2nd $700 Mac12t came from Luna with a clutch that slipped every tenth power engagement, but since it was the only one that any US vendor would sell to me, I rode it until ~3000 miles. At that point rain burnt the pins off the ASI controller into the Mac harness. Clutch was slipping 2 times out of 3 by then. I decided replacing the harness was not an option with no spare mac motors or clutches available in North America. No more ASI "50 amp" controllers, either. Note the two worn hub motors added together cost less than one bosch or shimano steps battery.
This bafang 500 w motor from batteryclearancewarehouse.com is ****, too slow uphills with a 10 amp controller, but since it is used, no dollars were taxed by President XI to imprison more Xuighers or HongKong loudmouths. No tax money for islands built to steal Phillipine or Indonesian Oil.

 

[PSm]

Have you considered the Ride1up Prodigy? See below link.

I don't have that one, but have their Roadster v2 single speed rear hub motor carbon belt bike, and am approaching 5000 miles on it with just fun and no issues. Btw, with the Roadster, I was able to do 4000+ foot rise climbs (fastest time under an hour in PAS 5, and about 1.5 to 2 hours in PAS 1).

I also have other e-bikes, with front or rear hub motors, including a Juiced CrossCurrent with 10000+ miles with a rear hub Bafang 350 watt motor that has not failed in that time.

Prodigy XC - Ride1Up | Mid-Drive Electric Bike

The ultimate riding experience. With it's ultra-refined Brose control system, the Prodigy will take your riding to the next level with 15mph

ride1up.com

 

[CodyDog]

I have owned both a hub and mid-drive. I prefer the mid-drive for long rides and commuting. Having both, I prefer a torque sensor over a cadence sensor. The Turbo Vado 4.0 is a very good option.If possible test ride as many e-bikes you can get your hands on. Do a lot of research. You get what you pay for in e-bikes. If you plan on having the bike for a long time, stretch your budget as much as you can. Quality components and drive systems are not cheap. I also recommend buying a bike, if possible, from a reliable LBS.

 

[TrevorB]

Having ridden both quality FS and HT eMTB on various surfaces, can't beat FS for comfort at speed especially on rougher roads. Downside beside price is maintenance is higher to compared to HT. If planning on 45kmhr bike then FS, 32kmhr bike then HT with fatter 2.4" tires with suspension seat post maybe enough. Spend a bit more on high spec forks, you will appreciate it.

For commuting must haves are factory mudguards, lights, rack (for pannier) kick stand. Belt drive with IGH will make for low maintenance bike. Lubing chains on regular basis after wet commute wears thin after awhile.

At 15000km a year the extra money for Belt drive with IGH will pay for self within first year compared to all chains and cassettes you will be replacing. Alternatively you could buy derailleur bike and upgrade to IGH eg Nuvinci with single speed chain. While not as low maintenance as belt still lot cheaper and easier to maintain than derailleur.

A single 500wh is plenty for 30km even in Turbo, just buy 2nd charger for topup at work.

 

[PSm]

Having ridden both quality FS and HT eMTB on various surfaces, can't beat FS for comfort at speed especially on rougher roads. Downside beside price is maintenance is higher to compared to HT. If planning on 45kmhr bike then FS, 32kmhr bike then HT with fatter 2.4" tires with suspension seat post maybe enough. Spend a bit more on high spec forks, you will appreciate it.

For commuting must haves are factory mudguards, lights, rack (for pannier) kick stand. Belt drive with IGH will make for low maintenance bike. Lubing chains on regular basis after wet commute wears thin after awhile.

At 15000km a year the extra money for Belt drive with IGH will pay for self within first year compared to all chains and cassettes you will be replacing. Alternatively you could buy derailleur bike and upgrade to IGH eg Nuvinci with single speed chain. While not as low maintenance as belt still lot cheaper and easier to maintain than derailleur.

A single 500wh is plenty for 30km even in Turbo, just buy 2nd charger for topup at work.

Excellent comments, regarding low maintenance of a belt drive and IGH bike for commuting. I'll probably never buy a bike with a chain anymore, given my positive experience with a belt drive.

Only problem is the $$$$ needed for a FS belt drive IGH

 

[Alaskan]

Hi,

Have a nice day and all the best.
This is Changzhou Feinidi Co., Ltd. Located in Changzhou, China.
We build e-bikes according to your wishes, but we can build them at a more competitive price.
Please send us OEM or ODM inquiries. thanks.

best wishes
Marcus Liu
Sales Manager
Changzhou Feinidi Co., Ltd.
WhatsApp: +86 17768253673
EBIKE sales link : https://finiti.en.alibaba.com/?spm=a2700.7756200.0.0.145d71d2c8w4cz

Your post is totally inappropriate. There is a classified forum where this belong. You should not be hocking your junky ebikes directly to our members like this. Your posting here is most unwelcome.

 

[TrevorB]

Hi,

Have a nice day and all the best.
This is Changzhou Feinidi Co., Ltd. Located in Changzhou, China.
We build e-bikes according to your wishes, but we can build them at a more competitive price.
Please send us OEM or ODM inquiries. thanks.

best wishes
Marcus Liu
Sales Manager
Changzhou Feinidi Co., Ltd.
WhatsApp: +86 17768253673
EBIKE sales link : https://finiti.en.alibaba.com/?spm=a2700.7756200.0.0.145d71d2c8w4cz

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