SDURO Outer Chainring

[bob armani]

Better don't. It is my gut feeling. Besides, can you have the whole cassette installed free? Bob, if you want the easy way, replace the cassette.

There could be some difference on the price of spare parts in Europe and the U.S. For instance, an EBR friend sent me spare cogs in a letter from Germany. Total cost was 16 Euro On the other hand, the HG-M7100, 12 s, 11-51T cassette cost me would 85 dollar here. It all depends.

View attachment 80950
My brother is an apt bike mechanic

That was my thinking with replacing the entire cassette. No chance for any compatibility issues at all for the mere savings approx $25 dollars US. No installation for free on my end. You are the lucky duck here having a brother who is a bike mechanic. Kudos to you and your brother. If I wanted free bass lessons I would be 1st on the list from my brother. That's about it! LOL BTW-How long did that job take in the photo from start to finish? Just curious.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

The bike mechanical work is only a pastime for Jacek. He is never in a hurry but meticulously enjoys every moment For instance, carefully washing each and every piece in white spirit

 

[Mike TowpathTraveler]

I think I posted this elsewhere on the forum, but for this discussion, I'll do it again. Haibike Full FatSix with the 2 front FSA chainring set up, 44 teeth big chain ring. Although I was very thorough in keeping my chain clean and lubed all the time, I was not thorough in changing that chain out every few thousand miles.

End result? Starting out from 0 mph and the chain came right off the front chain ring. Multiple times.

I think it was poster @Nova Haibike here who in one of his posts, linked the FSA chain OEM chain ring, right from FSA. I believe I paid 57 dollars for that in summer, 2020. Important Note: I DID NOT order the chain ring bolts and nuts, thinking I'll reuse the old ones. Being the nut is aluminum, this is not a good idea.

You also need that special spanner that holds the nut while you unscrew the chain ring bolt. I thought I could get by with needle nose plier (and did, but not without mangling the soft aluminum nut sert). And I also found that needle nose pliers will not catch the nutsert with the chain ring attached to the motor. So the crank arm, and the spider with chain rings attached have to come off. Note what poster @Brooks said about that nut; it's a 36mm socket and it is left hand thread.

I replaced the big chain ring, the chain (Shimano 10 speed HG replacement......this is what came with the bike originally. I believe it's not a good idea to go with a 9 speed or 12 speed chain....stick with the 10 as it's properly spaced for the cassette.) Along with the big chain ring, chain, I also replaced the rear cassette with the same Shimano cassette. And for good measure, I replaced the rear derailleur.

I did this as I had 10 thousand miles on that chain. I damaged the rear sprocket high gear sprocket when one day, I decided to try climbing a steep grade from water level, in the big sprocket and 10th gear. And damaged the teeth in the process, creating a skipping whenever I was in high gear on flat roads. Lesson learned: replace that chain every few thousand miles....not at 10 thousand!

Here's the reason why; note the wear on the teeth of the original versus the brand new:

 

[Brooks]

Dang, that's some good info. You really got some shark's teeth there (Is that why they call it a Haibike?). HA
Do you really have to take the spider off, or is it more convenient to take it off? Usually you don't have to take a crank off to remove chainrings.

 

[Mike TowpathTraveler]

Dang, that's some good info. You really got some shark's teeth there (Is that why they call it a Haibike?). HA
Do you really have to take the spider off, or is it more convenient to take it off? Usually you don't have to take a crank off to remove chainrings.

I didn't have the proper chain ring nut tool to hold the retaining nuts in place while I unscrewed the bolt out front; so it was onto improvising the tips of my needle nose pliers. There just isn't any room between the inner side of the spider/rings and motor to make it happen, even with a pair of small 90 degree needle nose pliers I had in the toolbox, so it had to come off.

Spot on about the Haibike name AND that chain ring. Almost looks like a movie prop from those John Wick movies. I did think about rigging that thing up to my Stihl weedwhacker. I could cut small trees with that baby!

 

[Brooks]

I have that chainring nut tool, but there isn't much for it to grab, and you are sure to lose some knuckle skin.
I cheaped out and got the Ryobi......but it's still gas powered.

 

[bob armani]

I have that chainring nut tool, but there isn't much for it to grab, and you are sure to lose some knuckle skin.
I cheaped out and got the Ryobi......but it's still gas powered.

I was asking the LBS mechanic about my front chainring removal. He said that as standard procedure, they just remove the crank for chainring removal. Using the special chainring nut wrench is not worth the hassle due to limited space to get behind it. They keep many different Spline BB tools on hand for that reason.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Just a question: Is it hard to remove the motor cover in your e-bike Bob? I did it for my Vado to get the access to the chainring bolt nuts in my Vado.

 

[bob armani]

I took a couple snaps of my last two cogs (11 and 13t). I also noticed when I run my fingernail along the outside of them, it catches my nail as the pointed part is slightly bent. I've reached out to Modern Bike and other suppliers and they indicated they do not carry replacements for those 2 cogs. I have another 10spd cassette on order and will do the swap when it arrives. My fingers are crossed hoping this will resolve the skipping issue from those 2 cogs.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Cassette replacement should cure the issue Bob!

 

[bob armani]

Just a question: Is it hard to remove the motor cover in your e-bike Bob? I did it for my Vado to get the access to the chainring bolt nuts in my Vado.

Not quit sure about that Stephan. Perhaps someone else could chime in on that...

 

[bob armani]

Cassette replacement should cure the issue Bob!

Thanks! Does anyone see any visual imperfections in the photos? I have been scouring the internet to get comparisons, and it appears the last 2 cogs are spaced out a bit more than they should be along with bent tips on those teeth.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Thanks! Do you see any visual imperfections in the photos? I have been scouring the internet to get comparisons, and it appears the last 2 cogs are spaced out a bit more than they should be along with bent tips on those teeth.

I'm not an expert in bike mechanics

 

[bob armani]

I think I posted this elsewhere on the forum, but for this discussion, I'll do it again. Haibike Full FatSix with the 2 front FSA chainring set up, 44 teeth big chain ring. Although I was very thorough in keeping my chain clean and lubed all the time, I was not thorough in changing that chain out every few thousand miles.

End result? Starting out from 0 mph and the chain came right off the front chain ring. Multiple times.

I think it was poster @Nova Haibike here who in one of his posts, linked the FSA chain OEM chain ring, right from FSA. I believe I paid 57 dollars for that in summer, 2020. Important Note: I DID NOT order the chain ring bolts and nuts, thinking I'll reuse the old ones. Being the nut is aluminum, this is not a good idea.

You also need that special spanner that holds the nut while you unscrew the chain ring bolt. I thought I could get by with needle nose plier (and did, but not without mangling the soft aluminum nut sert). And I also found that needle nose pliers will not catch the nutsert with the chain ring attached to the motor. So the crank arm, and the spider with chain rings attached have to come off. Note what poster @Brooks said about that nut; it's a 36mm socket and it is left hand thread.

I replaced the big chain ring, the chain (Shimano 10 speed HG replacement......this is what came with the bike originally. I believe it's not a good idea to go with a 9 speed or 12 speed chain....stick with the 10 as it's properly spaced for the cassette.) Along with the big chain ring, chain, I also replaced the rear cassette with the same Shimano cassette. And for good measure, I replaced the rear derailleur.

I did this as I had 10 thousand miles on that chain. I damaged the rear sprocket high gear sprocket when one day, I decided to try climbing a steep grade from water level, in the big sprocket and 10th gear. And damaged the teeth in the process, creating a skipping whenever I was in high gear on flat roads. Lesson learned: replace that chain every few thousand miles....not at 10 thousand!

Here's the reason why; note the wear on the teeth of the original versus the brand new:

View attachment 81071

Wow those are chainsaw shark teeth indeed! Mike-Your Haibike came with stock Shimano drivetrain parts (chain and cassette)? Mine has KMC and SunRace stock parts. Was looking for a compatible Shimano cassette to replace my SunRace MS2, however, I went with the MS3 replacement. They are just about identical per the specs below:

 

[bob armani]

I didn't have the proper chain ring nut tool to hold the retaining nuts in place while I unscrewed the bolt out front; so it was onto improvising the tips of my needle nose pliers. There just isn't any room between the inner side of the spider/rings and motor to make it happen, even with a pair of small 90 degree needle nose pliers I had in the toolbox, so it had to come off.

Spot on about the Haibike name AND that chain ring. Almost looks like a movie prop from those John Wick movies. I did think about rigging that thing up to my Stihl weedwhacker. I could cut small trees with that baby!

"movie prop from those John Wick movies" Or the James Bond film with the helicopter buzz saw scene in "The World is Not Enough"!

 

[Mike TowpathTraveler]

Hi Bob. Yes, the 2016 Full FatSix was equipped with an all-shimano drive, from the shifters all the way down to the derailleurs. Curious that they outfitted this bike with just an 11 X 36 rear cassette cluster. A 42 tooth low gear would give it some great climbing ability. I provided a breakdown in parts and special tools for this little adventure with the worn big chain ring. Note I purchased 2 complete Shimano chains as I had to splice links onto the new chain in order to come to the same chain link number that the original chain had.

I think I still need to get a chain guage so I can check for chain stretch.

******** Items Ordered ********

Item #: 1135-2706
Description: Park Tool CCP-22 Crank Puller - For Square Taper
Quantity: 1 @ $15.49

Item #: 28021-63958
Description: Shimano TL-LR15 Lock Ring Removal Tool - Tool With Pin
Quantity: 1 @ $18.00

Item #: 60671-143551
Description: Shimano TL-SR23 Chain Whip and Lockring Tool - Tool
Quantity: 1 @ $48.00

Item #: 98141-240224
Description: Shimano TL-CN29 Chain Tool - Tool
Quantity: 1 @ $49.00

Item #: 9658-181896
Description: Shimano 10 Spd Chain Pins - 10-speed Chain Pins (Bag of 3)
Quantity: 2 @ $8.00

Item #: 99663-244722
Description: Shimano CN-HG95 XT Unboxed Chain - 10 Speed (Silver)
Quantity: 1 @ $19.99

Item #: 65514-155056
Description: Shimano CN-HG95 XT Chain - 10 Speed (Silver)
Quantity: 1 @ $23.99

Item #: 36711-84571
Description: Shimano CS-HG81 SLX 10sp Cassette - 11-36t (11-13-15-17-19-21-24-28-32-36)
Quantity: 1 @ $37.99

Item #: 52792-124056
Description: Shimano RD-M786 XT Rear Derailleur - Long Cage SGS (Black)
Quantity: 1 @ $78.99

Item #: 83434-201359
Description: Shimano OPTISLICK Shift Cable - 1.2mm x 2000mm (Each)
Quantity: 2 @ $9.99

Quite an expensive adventure. But I did it myself with the help of Park Tools youtube videos as well as the Yamaha X9 Service Manual for the PW. All went back together without incident. Let us know how your All-Mountain turns out.

 

[bob armani]

Hi Bob. Yes, the 2016 Full FatSix was equipped with an all-shimano drive, from the shifters all the way down to the derailleurs. Curious that they outfitted this bike with just an 11 X 36 rear cassette cluster. A 42 tooth low gear would give it some great climbing ability. I provided a breakdown in parts and special tools for this little adventure with the worn big chain ring. Note I purchased 2 complete Shimano chains as I had to splice links onto the new chain in order to come to the same chain link number that the original chain had.

I think I still need to get a chain guage so I can check for chain stretch.

******** Items Ordered ********

Item #: 1135-2706
Description: Park Tool CCP-22 Crank Puller - For Square Taper
Quantity: 1 @ $15.49

Item #: 28021-63958
Description: Shimano TL-LR15 Lock Ring Removal Tool - Tool With Pin
Quantity: 1 @ $18.00

Item #: 60671-143551
Description: Shimano TL-SR23 Chain Whip and Lockring Tool - Tool
Quantity: 1 @ $48.00

Item #: 98141-240224
Description: Shimano TL-CN29 Chain Tool - Tool
Quantity: 1 @ $49.00

Item #: 9658-181896
Description: Shimano 10 Spd Chain Pins - 10-speed Chain Pins (Bag of 3)
Quantity: 2 @ $8.00

Item #: 99663-244722
Description: Shimano CN-HG95 XT Unboxed Chain - 10 Speed (Silver)
Quantity: 1 @ $19.99

Item #: 65514-155056
Description: Shimano CN-HG95 XT Chain - 10 Speed (Silver)
Quantity: 1 @ $23.99

Item #: 36711-84571
Description: Shimano CS-HG81 SLX 10sp Cassette - 11-36t (11-13-15-17-19-21-24-28-32-36)
Quantity: 1 @ $37.99

Item #: 52792-124056
Description: Shimano RD-M786 XT Rear Derailleur - Long Cage SGS (Black)
Quantity: 1 @ $78.99

Item #: 83434-201359
Description: Shimano OPTISLICK Shift Cable - 1.2mm x 2000mm (Each)
Quantity: 2 @ $9.99

Quite an expensive adventure. But I did it myself with the help of Park Tools youtube videos as well as the Yamaha X9 Service Manual for the PW. All went back together without incident. Let us know how your All-Mountain turns out.

Hey Mike- Impressive, but expensive list of gear for your next project. No cutting corners on these tools either considering you're going with PT brand. Does not look like your current setup would fit a 42t cassette setup. Hope all goes well for you.
I am slowly building up a stash of bike tools, but nothing too technical. Right now, I am going between 2 LBS for different repairs. ie: cassette swap out is $15 dollars, derailleur adjustments and chain swaps $10 dollars, etc.
What I am finding a little disappointing is the limited choices for "E-bike rated" cassettes. The only one I am aware of now (since 2017) is the Sram EX1 e bike rear cassette (Sram XG 899 E-Block HG 8sp Cassette - 11-48t). Not sure why there are not more available at this juncture in time.
Yes, YT videos have saved me a few $$$s in repair costs as well. Keep you all posted. Great thread and thanks to everyone!
FYI-"your All-Mountain turns out". I have the 2018 Full Seven Sduro model.

 

[Mike TowpathTraveler]

Sounds great, Bob! Always thought that red and black H-Bike in your avatar was an All MTN, but then again, I forgot that they employed that paint scheme in a number of E-MTB's for that model year, including the Full-Fat Six.

Oh, that job was completed in July 2020 and I have 2 thousand miles on the new components, with no issues. My immediate problem here is that a very good local bike shop closed their doors about 3 years ago now, so any other shop is a good ride and leap of faith that they are going to do as good a job as my late, latmented trustworthy shop used to provide for me. So I figured it can't hurt to try my own repairs, within my abilities and with the help of youtube.

Your issues about finding scarce choices to upgrade is part of the reason why I stuck with the original gear ratios and parts (Shimano XT) on my H-Bike. And now, with the parts supply chain in rough shape, it has to make it triple hard to locate components. Fwiw, that rear Shimano cluster is all steel.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

What I am finding a little disappointing is the limited choices for "E-bike rated" cassettes.

In most of cases, "e-bike rated" is a marketing hype to justify high price. Big brands may install high-end cassettes in their e-bikes but don't use anything that could not be found on corresponding traditional bikes. Don't think "e-bike rated cassette" would last any longer.

Next week, I'm replacing chain in my Trance E+ with "e-bike rated" KMC chain; same model as originally fetched with my e-MTB. This time, I'm going to put a note of the replacement date and odometer status, so I could have hard data on the chain durability. (The 12-speed, 130-link chain is very expensive).

At the same time, I'm going for an experiment. It is very difficult to find a 12-speed, 104 BCD chainring bigger than 38T. An Asian manufacturer VXM has come with a variety of large 104 BCD chainrings, reportedly good up to 12 speed (we'll see). If it works, I'm replacing the 36T chainring of my Trance E+ with a 48T. The purpose is to utilize more of larger cassette cogs at the same or slower cadence. I'm also replacing off-road tyres with Johnny Watts. The ultimate purpose is to convert my Giant from e-MTB to a full-suspension gravel-capable e-bike. Meaning, fast ride on sealed roads and switching to gravel and dirt. The bike will be deprived some of its "mountain" capabilities but there are no hills where I live...

 

[Mike TowpathTraveler]

Stefan, in regards to this "E-bike rated drivetrain equipment", I think you're right. Simply hype in order to attract buyers. Say for example, if there is a 10 speed chain made by KMC (they seem to have "ebike rated" in their parts listings), just how is it heads and shoulders above my newish Shimano 10 speed chain? Are their steel rollers or side plates made from some special process that Shimano is not already using? And even if it somehow were to be true that they were using a more harder steel in their chain vs Shimano, that chain is still putting power to bicycle components that can fit in any analog powered bike, from the tires, up to the rims, spokes and hubs.

I'd think a true engineered Ebike parts group of chain, wheel sets and tires would be a new hybrid of a components group that looks heavier built then an analog bike, yet not all-out heavy duty looking as a motorcycle's chain, rim, spokes and hubs.

That right there just might be the next evolutionary step for the ebike, parts groups truly built to take power outputs of 250 watts all the way up to 1500 watts.

Looking at my severely worn chain ring, they can start right there at the front chain rings and make them forged steel instead of aluminum.