Gus
Active Member
And you know this how? For all 6000+ people that bought this?
Say Hello To Storm
- Thread starter biknut
- Start date
biknut
Active Member
We all love bikes in our own way. It's our bond. It's the people that don't that we need to worry about. Hopefully after this Storm they'll be thousands more of us. Let's try not to alienate them. They're going to need, and want a lot of help. Established eBike businesses will benefit in ways they don't expect if they're flexible enough to take advantage of it.
Gus
Active Member
I actually agree with you for a change - sort of. I agree that the vast majority of Storm buyers are probably gullible, unknowledgeable to ebikes, impulse buyers aka "nubes" as you call it.
Now, my argument is that the vast majority of buyers will care. Consumers do not like getting tricked into thinking one thing and getting another. Maybe it will slide on a $19.95 vegetable chopper but $500 is a lot of money to most. When there is this much money and this many people involved, consumers will hold the manufacturer accountable if something is wrong with their product. The beauty of this indiegogo campaign is that Storm and his cronies basically remove accountability completely from the equation, which should be a huge red flag.
Yes, some will just accept it as-is, realize its not what they thought, and try to be happy with it. Those that are fuming mad will have no avenue for recourse. There will be no returns. There will be no refunds. There will be no chargebacks because its too late. These are the people that are going to raise hell.
Storm and Enron 2.0 falsely elevated those expectations with a fake overpowered ebike in the promo video and unrealistic (and for the first 2 days complete lies) in their description which is 50* miles and 90 minute charge.
People will be very vocal on social media if what they receive does not live up to their expectations.
To your original point, most that bought this wont know any better until they get it. They may not even understand the description for what that "*" means next to the 50 miles. Then when it dies at 15 miles and they have to pedal a 55 lb single speed back to point A or they had to wait 5 hours for it to charge at the coffee shop instead of 90 minutes before they could ride home. Then the storm will truly begin.
I can respect your optimist view but the bumblings of this campaign have swayed me much more towards the pessimist side.
biknut
Active Member
Ok, I hear what you're saying, I just see it differently. Of course some people will complain about any bike. I've seen people complain about their Stealth's. I just think the vast majority of these nobes have a pretty good idea what they're getting, and most will be quite happy. I also don't think this bike will be nearly as bad I most critics are expecting.
If I get one I'll accurately report on the satisfaction factor.
George S.
Well-Known Member
It's been a good show, but I wouldn't have paid for the $500 ticket. The campaign has exposed the fault lines in the ebike industry, even the ebike review 'industry'.
https://electricfatbike.wordpress.c...bike-check-out-electricbikereview-com-or-not/
Cheap bikes are probably going to show up. Margins are likely to go down. China makes great laptops, the latest smartphones are almost cutting edge. China can't make a good ebike, sell it on Alibaba? I wouldn't count on that. The stuff Dillenger is offering is more interesting than the storm, and it's more of a going concern that will be around. But there are a lot of 'pure China import' bikes around. Why is Storm different?
If people ultimately get their Storms, it is likely to be because Storm bends a lot of rules. You can 'leak' bikes into the US. I guess that means you are not a real business, with like a legal address, facilities, licenses, insurance. Can you really 'leak' 6,000 bikes into the US without setting up anything? Not get called out by anyone?
It's not great, the Storm model. Not even Walmart type jobs are created. If you want a US industry, you will have to do more than flip ebikes off Alibaba onto a container ship. Is there any way to build various kinds of ebikes in the US? Prodeco tries. What you need is volume. Storm got volume, but they are playing the Asia import game, and probably very loosely. Maybe people will ask these questions at the Demo.
Everything in ebikes just went all upscale in the past couple of years. Bosch stuff is out of sight. Mid-drive from Europe just pushes bikes into the 3's and 4's. The Euro model is to sell ebikes that are so expensive, so beautiful, that you can never ride them anywhere because they will be stolen.
But Storm hasn't answered the question "Where is a really solid low end price point for ebikes". If it works then their price is OK, but there may be nothing but a bike. If they can't cut whatever corners they are cutting, and deliever a decent bike, what are these 6,000 ebikes going to be? You don't have to put forward much of a plan to get on Indiegogo.
Maybe we, in the US, will have a presence in electric motorcycles or whatever comes next.
https://electricfatbike.wordpress.c...bike-check-out-electricbikereview-com-or-not/
Cheap bikes are probably going to show up. Margins are likely to go down. China makes great laptops, the latest smartphones are almost cutting edge. China can't make a good ebike, sell it on Alibaba? I wouldn't count on that. The stuff Dillenger is offering is more interesting than the storm, and it's more of a going concern that will be around. But there are a lot of 'pure China import' bikes around. Why is Storm different?
If people ultimately get their Storms, it is likely to be because Storm bends a lot of rules. You can 'leak' bikes into the US. I guess that means you are not a real business, with like a legal address, facilities, licenses, insurance. Can you really 'leak' 6,000 bikes into the US without setting up anything? Not get called out by anyone?
It's not great, the Storm model. Not even Walmart type jobs are created. If you want a US industry, you will have to do more than flip ebikes off Alibaba onto a container ship. Is there any way to build various kinds of ebikes in the US? Prodeco tries. What you need is volume. Storm got volume, but they are playing the Asia import game, and probably very loosely. Maybe people will ask these questions at the Demo.
Everything in ebikes just went all upscale in the past couple of years. Bosch stuff is out of sight. Mid-drive from Europe just pushes bikes into the 3's and 4's. The Euro model is to sell ebikes that are so expensive, so beautiful, that you can never ride them anywhere because they will be stolen.
But Storm hasn't answered the question "Where is a really solid low end price point for ebikes". If it works then their price is OK, but there may be nothing but a bike. If they can't cut whatever corners they are cutting, and deliever a decent bike, what are these 6,000 ebikes going to be? You don't have to put forward much of a plan to get on Indiegogo.
Maybe we, in the US, will have a presence in electric motorcycles or whatever comes next.
biknut
Active Member
Pretty good point George.
Sadly, all our manufacturing jobs are gone. That's not Strom's fault, and you're not saying it is, but I'm afraid this is how it's going to be done from now on, and for a long time to come. The European model is dismal. If nothing else, Storm has shown us the future whether he makes it work or not, someone else will.
What we have left here is a service industry. I can fix you eBike for you, easier than someone in China can, so that's were our money is in the eBike future, Accessories, and repairs, but not manufacturing or sales.
Most of the good Chinese products, are American designs made in China. It's only a matter of time till someone does that with eBikes, and possible Storm has.
The Chinese seem to be able to make quality with the right motivation. The motor in my Stealth is Chinese made, and I can't find anything to complain about it.
Sadly, all our manufacturing jobs are gone. That's not Strom's fault, and you're not saying it is, but I'm afraid this is how it's going to be done from now on, and for a long time to come. The European model is dismal. If nothing else, Storm has shown us the future whether he makes it work or not, someone else will.
What we have left here is a service industry. I can fix you eBike for you, easier than someone in China can, so that's were our money is in the eBike future, Accessories, and repairs, but not manufacturing or sales.
Most of the good Chinese products, are American designs made in China. It's only a matter of time till someone does that with eBikes, and possible Storm has.
The Chinese seem to be able to make quality with the right motivation. The motor in my Stealth is Chinese made, and I can't find anything to complain about it.
Ann M.
Well-Known Member
George, it is a dilemma. What all of this wind over the Storm bike shows me is that there is an underserved market for $500 ebikes. Its dubious that Storm will have much in the way of sales at $1295. The Indiegogo program has gotten ebikes in front of a lot of people, something that few marketing & advertising schemes have been able to do. Growing the ebike market seems to be a challenge here in the US.
@sukeiasa , Court bought a ticket to the Storm Demo day; look for something from him soon afterwards.
Brambor
Well-Known Member
$500 bike is barely a good deal for a non electric bike. This campaign is pushing buttons for consumers who want too good to be true prices for a piece of a pie in the sky. Similar to treadmills and other cheap infomercial crap the majority of these bikes will end in landfills after a year.
There will be a few like biknut who will spend another $1000 to pimp it up...
There is , however, a good business opportunity for biknut to scoop these bikes up for $200, pimp them up and service them
There will be a few like biknut who will spend another $1000 to pimp it up...
There is , however, a good business opportunity for biknut to scoop these bikes up for $200, pimp them up and service them
Ravi Kempaiah
Well-Known Member
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Our glorious leader rides it
You should too
You should too
George S.
Well-Known Member
Wow. Wow. Wow. So, after a really well executed Kickstarter they are jumping to IGG and offering another fat bike for half what the Juggernaut cost. It took about 9 days for someone to copy Storm.
I keep thinking that Storm has built this remarkable name, a name that has some value, a lot if they produce anything decent. And Prodeco is going to try very hard to take it away from them.
Lenny
Well-Known Member
This is the first Kickstarter campiagn (related to Ebikes) where they have delivered 25% of the bikes 2 months before the deadline. They promised to deliver them by April but 25% of the backers have already received their bike.
We just received 8 Juggernauts today. Crowd funding has gained bad reputation for tall claims and irresponsible behavior by companies. Happy to see a young company delivering what they promised.
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Gus
Active Member
The 750w/500w Bafang BBS02 is an extemely huge difference between the two bikes.
The Storm is basically a 4 cylinder. The Juggernaut is a V8, relatively speaking.
I can see why Bitrix is trying to jump on the Storm bandwagon, but that $799 bike sure does crap on anyone that paid $1500 for the juggernaut.
This is awesome though that others are jumping into the low cost eBikes. The major eBike players are not going to sit idly by and let independents eat their lunch. They will have to come up with something to compete, which should be very interesting.
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biknut
Active Member
Good point Gus, and same as I've been saying too, but for me I still wouldn't want it because it's mid drive. Hub drive is a lot easier to modify for more power, and even 750w isn't enough for me. Still, I do applaud them for giving us the maximum legal amount.
If Storms next model comes out with that much power I think it would do well too, and they could probably get more for it than a Juggernaut
Gus
Active Member
Agreed. Hub motors on fat bikes is where its at. The Bafang mid drive has gobs of power but the amount of shifting required for off road riding makes the Bafang mid drive a horrible experience on a fat bike. The Bosch is far superior but will never be a powerhouse.
-10 cool points
I would have thought they could have come up with a cooler name than the 'Sonders.' That about as cool as saying you ride the Carlton
George S.
Well-Known Member
@biknut said:
I'm pretty sure Pedago has done at least some permanent damage to their brand by potentially alienating thousands of new riders, I know that in my case they have, and many more riders on the fb group feel the same.
If Pedago would have been smart, they would have quietly contacted Storm Sondors, and made their demands in private. The way they did it isn't good for business.
Daniel del Aguila made at least 50 negative comments on the Sondo site, in the first couple of days. They got a cease and desist order, to protect their name. It's clear where he stood. I don't think he was trying to be nice, and maybe he will be hurt by his aggressiveness.
Now, del Aguila is a founder of Prodeco Tech, not Pedego (and not Pedago). You are kind of libeling Pedego, by saying they have done permanent damage to their brand.
https://www.prodecotech.com/history/
We're just waiting to see what Sondo delivers. I hope it is everything that you and the folks on the forums hope it is. That's all that matters now. They will show a product on Sunday, people will record what they see, and then we will see what people actually get in May. Why sweat it.
I'm pretty sure Pedago has done at least some permanent damage to their brand by potentially alienating thousands of new riders, I know that in my case they have, and many more riders on the fb group feel the same.
If Pedago would have been smart, they would have quietly contacted Storm Sondors, and made their demands in private. The way they did it isn't good for business.
Daniel del Aguila made at least 50 negative comments on the Sondo site, in the first couple of days. They got a cease and desist order, to protect their name. It's clear where he stood. I don't think he was trying to be nice, and maybe he will be hurt by his aggressiveness.
Now, del Aguila is a founder of Prodeco Tech, not Pedego (and not Pedago). You are kind of libeling Pedego, by saying they have done permanent damage to their brand.
https://www.prodecotech.com/history/
We're just waiting to see what Sondo delivers. I hope it is everything that you and the folks on the forums hope it is. That's all that matters now. They will show a product on Sunday, people will record what they see, and then we will see what people actually get in May. Why sweat it.
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