Say Hello To Storm

[Ralph]

Court, Thanks for jum

No worries @biknut, I'm semi-under the weather right now and this whole thing has been an emotional roller coaster. I have spoken with quite a few high level people in the last 24 hours... I put myself out there with this video and I'm trying to help but I also don't want to be a tool if this campaign turns out to be fraudulent (there have been others on Indiegogo which have). I put my $500 out there as a sacrifice to report on this product but don't want that to be perceived as a vote of confidence. My feelings are mixed and I appreciate you also acknowledging that you don't know or that you might have made a misstep. No hurt feelings here, whether there are scams or deceptive marketing afoot, that's not what EBR or I am about.

Court, thanks for your comments. I know you to be a straight shooter. You constantly walk that fine line of being objective and honest without jumping to conclusions. Those of us that know you realize that you would never buy a bike like the Storm unless there was a compelling reason like we have here. I was impressed that you decided to make the buy so you could report and follow this story first handle. I for one appreciate you and what you have done and continue to do for the e bike sector. It is because of you, your members and some of your advertisers that I dropped $3,000 0n an e bike at my LBS. I never looked back. I love it.

I know your integrity is above reproach. Like you, I knew that this could be a scam, but hope it is not. The Yahoo article makes me think twice, but I am happy to be in the mix. All this could be too good to be true. Could be they have a big infringement problem and it could be they are crooks. But it could be that they are well meaning entrepreneurs that had a great idea and now have to figure out how to make it a real company and real profits. Could be a lot of things, but I appreciate that you are on the ride with us and will keep us abreast of the story as it unfolds. I know EBR to be unbiased and I also know how careful you are to maintain your objectivity. Keep up the great work and thanks. Ralph

 

[JoePah]

Here's a first hand account of the Storm Ebike from hi power cycles, written in Endless Sphere. And his explanation of why people are standing. Pegs, no pedals!

And if you look at the video you will see a cycle analyst on the handlebars.

"Just wanted to clear up a few things for those interested in the storm.
We have had both the co-founders in our shop on a couple occasions since that green bike you see in the video has had to get fixed a few times by our mechanics for various reasons. The bike featured a Crystalyte HS motor, 72v Electric Rider battery, Crystalyte 40A controller so it was pushing about 3000 watts on a TommiSea frame. That bike weighed about 83 pounds. The yellow box in the mid frame was made from fiberglass and was a huge pita to get to in that prototype (which looks like that made much nicer on their current version). There were not pedals/cranks on that bike but pegs to stand on which is why people are asking why no one pedaled.

Jon and Storm were both nice guys and I really hope they can pull this off. It would be quite the feat. Hopefully they have someone who knows about e-bikes guiding them. Looks like that new prototype is using the Bafang geared motor which would most likely get trashed doing anything off road using that heavy frame with fat tire wheels. Dealing with these parts for years I just cannot figure out how to get this kind of price, even in large quantity. Taking into account shipping to them in Malibu, customs clearance fees, brokerage fees, container fees etc it just doesn't add up. Even using the cheapest of the cheap components (frame, tires, rims, battery, charger, controller, motor etc) and having everything assembled in China would keep the price down but would cause such a headache of problems for Storm with parts breaking/failing. Heck, our packaging for our bikes (in large quantities) costs us over $70! Going from zero customers to over 4000 with questions/problems overnight will be quite the problem without a dedicated and knowledgeable support staff so I hope they can figure this out. If this campaign goes well and they deliver what they are promising, I think it will be good for the electric bike industry as a whole. If it doesn't go well, I think it will set the e-bike movement back a bit so I hope they can deliver as the promise! For the sake of safety, we hope they paid a little bit extra and got some high quality 18650 cells!"

 

[biknut]

Over night from the time I went to bed, to when I got up they took in another $32,000.

Now they're at $2,341,576

Anyone want to make any bets whether they'll reach 3 million today?

 

[biknut]

I think we're findly starting to have an impact on these shysters sales. They've only taken in $50,000 in the last hour.

 

[opimax]

A thought came to my mind. "opportunity", choice of 2 follow ups , there is a decent customer base if they deliver . "You have a new Storm and it sucks I can help you get it fixed by selling you a package of ez replaceable parts that are know failure points" or "the other side you have a great entry ebike w/this new (place appropriate part here) and you can do the 50 miles they advertised or replace the rear cog w/this and do 25 mph". either way they may be a large opportunity for someone

Mark

 

[biknut]

A thought came to my mind. "opportunity", choice of 2 follow ups , there is a decent customer base if they deliver . "You have a new Storm and it sucks I can help you get it fixed by selling you a package of ez replaceable parts that are know failure points" or "the other side you have a great entry ebike w/this new (place appropriate part here) and you can do the 50 miles they advertised or replace the rear cog w/this and do 25 mph". either way they may be a large opportunity for someone

Msrk

I think you make a good point. Up till now the eBike market has been almost totally derelict of aftermarket performance businesses offering hop up parts for existing models. This kind of so called entry level bike selling by the thousands could very well invent such a market. We're not talking about anything illegal either.

750w custom kit for Storm eBike.
25 ah custom manganese battery for Storm eBike
Storm eBike fender kit
Storm eBike Lighting kit

I can think of about a hundred other items to offer.

 

[JoePah]

A thought came to my mind. "opportunity", choice of 2 follow ups , there is a decent customer base if they deliver . "You have a new Storm and it sucks I can help you get it fixed by selling you a package of ez replaceable parts that are know failure points" or "the other side you have a great entry ebike w/this new (place appropriate part here) and you can do the 50 miles they advertised or replace the rear cog w/this and do 25 mph". either way they may be a large opportunity for someone

Msrk

Not sure upgrading a bike with a junk frame and fork is prudent. These customers expect a good to go eBike for their $500, and probably don't want to waste their money on fixing the ride.

Just do a search on Walmarts Fat Bike http://fat-bike.com/2013/04/is-the-walmart-fatbike-really-that-bad/

 

[biknut]

Not sure upgrading a bike with a junk frame and fork is prudent. These customers expect a good to go eBike for their $500, and probably don't want to waste their money on fixing the ride.

Just do a search on Walmarts Fat Bike http://fat-bike.com/2013/04/is-the-walmart-fatbike-really-that-bad/

LOL, that's probably why we put motors on our bikes.

 

[Gus]

LOL, that's probably why we put motors on our bikes.

"just because you pour syrup on sh!t don't make it pancakes"

-Samual L Jackson, Juice
​

Seriously though, if this does actually turn out to be a decent bike that actually lasts, this could generate a huge community of people hacking their Storm controllers & motors, rebuilding the battery packs, etc. to improve range or power. I'm sure there will be tons of stuff online from people tinkering with this thing to make it better.

I would expect most buyers to fall into the following buckets:

1.) Ride it a few times and then store it indefinitely in their garage never to be ridden again
2.) Be happy with it as-is and just use it to occasionally mosey around town/beaches
3.) Throw more money at it until it doesn't suck, realizing they should have just bought a different eBike if they wanted that much performance
4.) Turn around and try to sell it on eBay for a profit
5.) Hack the crap out of it - overvolt the motor, custom controller, lipos for batteries
6.) Call their credit card company to initiate a charge back because they it feel they have been lied to by the campaigns supposed battery range

​

 

[Admin]

Please check out this Reddit post I made and consider adding to the conversation and upvoting so more people can become aware of the questions and risks of Storm and Indiegogo: http://www.reddit.com/r/ebikes/comments/2uu1t4/a_500_ebike_not_so_fast/ I'm slammed today with media and am doing another budget fat e-bike review to highlight real-world performance for those who truly do want one of these bikes and aren't sure whether to take a risk with Storm or consider other options.

 

[Gus]

Your math is wrong.

Indiegogo would take their 4% off the total funds not the profits. Plus, Indiegogo makes you responsible for the 3-5% credit card or PayPal fees. So, they'll be losing anywhere from 7-9% right off the top. Thats $175k - $225k gone before they build one bike.

You are also missing the large cost to get 5000 bikes shipped from China to the US. Not to mention the lithium batteries may require special handling which would be extra. Then you have to divide the total profit among the two co-founders + Agency 2.0 fees + all the people hired to ship 5000 bikes. Plus, X thousands of dollars that will be needed to settle pending lawsuit from Prodeco. Plus, the cost you are going to have to eat from the X number of bikes that are received defective because it would be nothing short of a miracle to get a 100% quality shipment from China.

In the end, I can't wait to see how this whole thing pans out. I'll be watching from the sidelines with my popcorn. It's either going to be biknut with no bike that has to answer to his wife where this $500 went or or biknut 'storming' up and down the street at 20 mph screaming "I told you so" to everyone.

This is going to be good.

 

[George S.]

They always look so good on Alibaba. And wow, what a price. And how do we make sure every one is as pretty as the pictures? Well, best to have someone check them as they come off the line. Why ship a defective bike? Will the factory let you cull out the losers? I doubt it. What do you do with the defective ones? What will the defective rate be? How do you decide who in China to give this contract, if you don't know right now? They don't say anything about how these bikes will get made to some reasonable standard. Maybe the same standard as the prizes in a Happy Meal? That was the job he mentions the most, designing Happy Meal toys. (Why does all this seem like a Mel Brooks movie?)

What about little things like 1) the fees to the guys who made it all possible, Agency 2.0? Credit card fees? PayPal fees? What are those customs fees? They run ads through Google. That costs money. They want to give money to charity, basically your money.

And now the real question. Is Storm an ebike company or is Storm a one-shot, in and out, smash and grab operator. They don't have to hang around. Just send out the boxes, head for beach. Well, you know, the beach at Cancun or somewhere far away. The other option is to become an ebike company. Swell, lets hire some people to do the customer service, set aside parts for a warranty, plan for selling other ebikes.

How does this add up? A guy gets injured and he needs to get to the beach to surf. He makes an electric bike and everyone loves it, so now he wants to make them so everyone can share the joy? Does he want to stop going to the beach and answer customer service inquiries 10 hours a day, to build the business? Is this a 'fire in the gut' entrepreneur, or a script from Gilligan's Island?

There's nothing, not one thing, I like about Agency 2.0. And Agency 2.0 is the brains behind Storm, and the cheerleading squad for Indigogo. I hope all this attention, and all this money, puts these guys under a 10 billion watt spotlight. I'd like to see some Feds, some inquiries, polite but firm, from the FBI, maybe the SEC, maybe customs, state tax entities. There are a lot of people who gave these guys money. Storm should just be on notice. Raise the issue of long prison terms for people who don't dot all the I's, cross all the T's.

Too much money. They're stuck. They have to do the impossible. Or maybe Indigogo will get cold feet, see where this is going, and pull the plug. I don't even think Agency 2.0 could pretty that up, though I'm sure they'd try.

 

[biknut]

When I think about, I bought my first full size motorcycle, a 1974 Norton Commando 850 from a cycle shop called Storm's Cycle.

 

[Paul E.]

Obviously he designed his bike. There's no other bike quite like it.

Hmm...

 

[Paul E.]

Paul, you do realize that's Strorm's personal bike right?

I have no idea, "Waladli Explorer" and the logo just look odd.

 

[biknut]

I have no idea, "Waladli Explorer" and the logo just look odd.

That's one of the first prototypes. It's in the first video they put showing them riding without pedals.

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

Please check out this Reddit post I made and consider adding to the conversation and upvoting so more people can become aware of the questions and risks of Storm and Indiegogo: http://www.reddit.com/r/ebikes/comments/2uu1t4/a_500_ebike_not_so_fast/ I'm slammed today with media and am doing another budget fat e-bike review to highlight real-world performance for those who truly do want one of these bikes and aren't sure whether to take a risk with Storm or consider other options.

I'm really disappointed that you didn't mention the lack of "water bottle cage" on this Storm E-bike..

 

[Clark]

Guys, did you read the bio they put out on this guy? Any baseball fans here? It reminded me of Sidd Finch ala Plimpton. American (accent) guy lived in Hong Kong as an Industrial engineer designing toys for Mickeyd's happy meals, but he's not into computers or cellphones and he like's the off the grid lifestyle, so don't try to find him. Got hurt, built bike to get to beach to surf, others wanted a bike just like his, so ..... gets with his friend, figure out they could source it in China, friend has buddy at Agency 2.0, don't go with Kickstarter, they ask too many questions, have some pretty rigid funding policies. Indiegogo, the crowdfunding equivalent of the wild west, where they can ______________________ with the money if they want to. Agency 2.0 strikes gold as do they on launch on Indiegogo, just look at the response here on EBR, Agency 2.0 gets a report on Yahoo! news front page and the internet burns it up, closest ever of anything ebike going viral. Now what, Storm must be saying to himself, although in the press piece he seemed.......quiet? Everyone here knows more about ebikes than me but - did he not know those were mechanical brakes, couldn't he have said this is a demo and the production bikes will come with the hydraulic? Was he nervous? He worked in industrial design in HK, he live there for years the bio states, so he speaks Chinese (Mandarin) right? Anyone who lives in another culture like that and learns the language/culture is not stupid so - Why be nervous - presumably he's demo'd the toys before higher up types in Mickeyd's right? When the dude asks how much does the bike weigh - why look like you have no idea and not answer, just let the guy lift it up and give his opinion. I assume he did the interview to spread the word about the storm, why does he seem reticent? Look guys this is just my NJ BS meter going off, so I don't mean to POff anyone (biknut). I hope it works out for everyone who laid out $'s sake. But to me it seems like this might have gotten away from them in #'s they couldn't have planned for. An example of something I do know about. Shipping. From China. I hope Storm does speak Mandarin, and speak it well. Shipping those bikes to get here anywhere near when promised will be a modern day miracle - assuming the factory cranks them out - part suppliers are on time - everything works perfectly and the bikes are ready to go - then you just have the shipping logistics to work out.......no problem. Haven't shipped these before? How many containers? what date is pick-up? We need 90 day lead in, how many containers? not ready on date/time you know is big uh oh! Multiple shipments? what date? I have a Brother in Law who own his own Luggage business, made in china, sold in Container Store, TJ Maxx, Marshalls etc. Been in biz 15yrs right now has 14 containers sitting on a dock in China, factory on time delivery to dock on time, sitting on dock for a month - This is someone who's in China 6-7 times a year, speaks the language, knows the game. Logistics is a b*tch. I hope it all works out, for me I'm gonna sit with Gus, have some popcorn, and enjoy watching this Sh*tstorm play out.

Clark

 

[Ann M.]

So the idea here is to dump junk on folks and walk away with $$ and that's ok for the E Bike industry? Get some balanced perspective, that's what Court's working to do on Electricbikereview.com. So@Ravi Kempaiah , what's your point? We can all see that normal waterbottle cage mounts were covered by the battery pack. That's not the issue, its what's going to happen when all the fake hype is gone since there's no legal protection for investors on Indiegogo. That's a serious differentiation from Kickstarter, where money is held until items are actually ready to ship. I saw nothing on the Indiegogo site viewed a few days ago indicating that there was a long term support or 'dealer's network'; this is an after the fact add-on.

Do due diligence, folks, that bike is not 'Storm's personal bike' that he created. His own investor buddies have images of the same bike with totally different labels. Show me where he 'created the McDonald's kiddie treats' but he's not into computers? Look at what was posted as updates on the Storm funding site. Of course he's going to have some demo unit. We can all order a Demo Unit of almost any ebike from Alibaba.com and then call it our 'own'. Here's where I have more questions: Storm's recent claims concerning owner's support does not match what is on the Indiegogo site-- Show everyone the preplanned structure in place to support individual buyers or dealers when there's 5000+ of your bikes on the street on the same day. These latest updates Storm added on their Indiegogo campaign are a result of pushback from the public by all of you who are aware and interested in EBikes.

Manufacturer's support, at least this round, most likely will amount to the typical container load '10% of a purchase add-on in spare parts; generally nothing major. Even one of the major US EBike manufacturers I spoke with this afternoon had serious doubts about the production schedule of 5000 units, shipped and delivered from China in 2 months. This company's annual production gives them a perspective of what was rational. Again, it is easy to underestimate the time to go through US Customs and the cost of import taxes when calculating the real cost for importing a whole item, not separate parts.

 

[biknut]

I think it's pretty safe to assume that when they were thinking 150 bikes, May Shipment was somewhat realistic. Who the heck knew it was going to go viral? I'm pretty sure it took them by surprise. I bought before it was at the $75,000 goal. I was thinking it would be a gamble they might not ever get there and I might lose my money. I'm a lot less worried about it now, but I won't be surprised if it takes a lot longer now. Who left the barn door open and let all these people in here anyway lol.