Say Hello To Storm

[EULITTLB]

Maybe I am a simple man - I deal in relatively high value transactions - £5-£55k, high end AV goods - I deal in good faith with people, and give them a 14 day satisfaction guarantee - I know what I am buying (when purchasing) and the customer knows what they are buying when buying from me. I have a good reputation around the world, it is a global business.

Something about this stinks, last minute revisions, drastic changes, different claims - Chris Davies article (Slashgear) tells me that Sondors is making this up as he is going along, maybe he will pull something off but others in the bike industry scoff at his claims to be a manufacturing genius, first of all the cost was low because he was manufacturing himself, now it is all off-the-shelf parts, manufacturing was all set up apparently and in place.

And now what - $75k target with manufacturing all set up, different ball game at $3.6 million.

I don't take kindly to being accused of being a liar or a paid troll repeatedly, but what can you do? Laugh at the pathetic creatures.

@wa5 where was that post by Biknut, I can't see it anywhere.

 

[PowerMe]

I'd be very surprised (shocked, even) if an eBike product did not result from this campaign. I don't see any way realistically that Storm & partner(s) will take off with $3M and leave thousands in the lurch. At the very least some portion of funders would be angry enough to track Storm down to the ends of the earth. So I think there absolutely will be an eBike and it will happen this year.

Now, will the product/perk live up to expectations? That remains to be seen. The bike demo'd in the video seems to have appeal for a wide segment of folks who want an electric bike. Clearly the bike in the video worked -- I mean it went forward on electric power throughout the day.

And just to be clear, a bike that retails for $1200 is not a $1200 bike, it's really more like a $400 bike marked up 3x by the time it gets to the consumer. Retail price doesn't equate necessarily to quality, it relates to perceived value and what someone is willing to pay, along with what the manufacturer is willing to accept profit-wise.

 

[EULITTLB]

Again I like your post Powerme. I envisage manufacturing setbacks which will delay the project, problems with logistics and ultimately product difficulties (hopefully few, 1-2%?) The Campaign is too high-profile, but where is John Hopp the design genius who had to have the spec changed at the last minute after $2.5m had been pledged?

The biggest let-down will be the range and the battery performance and charging time but as you correctly note perhaps the target won't be bothered anyway and are not likely to use that range to its full potential anyway. A full demo with someone like Court might have realised range problems or over-heating problems with the battery etc., can't imagine why Sondors did not want the bike taken onto the wrong sort of sand when the bike is advertised as a go-anywhere machine.

What we do differ on is the core cost of an ebike, say the SSR Sand Viper selling at $1399 I believe. Far better spec than the Sondors offering which is entry-level and in my uneducated estimation would have a retail value of $899-$999 on the street, but for that it would have a dealer network and support, which presently the Sondors bike does not. Therein whereas the target market are not bike enthusiasts, they will have difficulty doing DIY things with the Sondors offering.

The silence from Sondors however is deafening, when is the next "demo day" for example? Pressure on them to deliver and they are being watched at least might result in pledgers getting something for their money, I believe it will be subject to tax at the very least, it will need battery and safety certification and maybe I am just negative unnecessarily.

But let me be very clear, being banned from Facebook when I asked if there was actually more than one bike and whether there were any schematics for the design, raised my concerns tenfold.

(Did I hit 800 words, if not I apologise Biknut)

 

[biknut]

Can the person who already paid the $500 for the bike get their money back or is the payment binding and nonrefundable?

Brambor, technically the answer is no based on the indiegogo terms, but in one update Strom sent out, he said that at the end of the campaign he will consider offering refunds on a case by case basis in the event of hardship, because he said he's knows life happens. I guess it remains to be seen if that's true, and I don't know how we'll know anyway, but he did say that.

 

[EULITTLB]

Just to be clear Brambor, Strom a.k.a. Storm did not "say" that - it is stated on the IGG website - it is also claimed that the bike has a 50 mile range (now with pedal assist) and that the battery has a full charge time of 90 minutes, so how accurate that is I have no idea.

The IGG site says nothing whatsoever about cases of hardship, Biknut is just making it up again.

According to Indiegogo, contributions are non-refundable in their Terms of Use. However, upon the completion of the campaign, we will confirm your shipping address and your order to determine refunds on a case by case basis. We get it, sometimes life happens. We want to be fair but it is easiest done at the completion.

 

[biknut]

I'd be very surprised (shocked, even) if an eBike product did not result from this campaign. I don't see any way realistically that Storm & partner(s) will take off with $3M and leave thousands in the lurch. At the very least some portion of funders would be angry enough to track Storm down to the ends of the earth. So I think there absolutely will be an eBike and it will happen this year.

Yeah, I was thinking along the same lines. Even if Storm had been entertaining the idea originally of forfeiting and keeping the money, at this point he'd have to have cohonies 12 feet in diameter to do that now.

Some of the comments I've read on the fb group, from people that got to ride at the demo are revealing. You can see in the videos everyone has that famous eBike smile on their faces we all know so well.

One man who rode at the demo that's not nearly as proactive as I am said, he liked the ride, and that the bike had a solid feel about it.

I've build a bunch of motor bicycles now that weighted almost exactly the same as this Storm bike, and I wouldn't describe any of them as solid feeling.

 

[EULITTLB]

"What's going on here for beyond a little exaggerated claims. This is all out corporate war. You have trolls showing up on almost every forum dealing with eBikes on the internet wherever people are talking about the Storm. They sign up on forums, usually by twos, and then start writing 800 word essays about why Storm is, take you pick, crooks, liars, bike can't be produced at the price point, 2.0 are crooks, ect. The same users keep writing the same posts over and over drowning out all other discussion, except for others the agree."(Biknut, Storm wannabe owners forum)


Biknut, if you are going to talk behind peoples backs on other forums to impress other sycophants like you, then at least do not lie to try and score brownie points. Because that is what you are doing, I don't know if it makes you feel big or you get a hard-on whilst writing crap, but stop making things up, you are pathetic.

 

[George S.]

Just to be clear Brambor, Strom a.k.a. Storm did not "say" that - it is stated on the IGG website - it is also claimed that the bike has a 50 mile range (now with pedal assist) and that the battery has a full charge time of 90 minutes, so how accurate that is I have no idea.

The IGG site says nothing whatsoever about cases of hardship, Biknut is just making it up again.

According to Indiegogo, contributions are non-refundable in their Terms of Use. However, upon the completion of the campaign, we will confirm your shipping address and your order to determine refunds on a case by case basis. We get it, sometimes life happens. We want to be fair but it is easiest done at the completion.

Refunds:

https://electricfatbike.wordpress.com/

 

[Tom N]

Wow all this speculation and mud throwing. I signed up for this forum because I am a bike enthusiast, endurance mountain biker, fat bike curious, 499 funder of the Sondors Ebike campaign and this is my first time in the ebike world.

I know the interwebs is chock full of asshats and blowhards but this is ridiculous. Looking back at this thread it's full of BS. The naysayers have had their chance to naysay so why don't you STFU already. You have made your points a thousand times over.

At this point time will tell.

 

[EULITTLB]

@George S. Please can you explain the context of that link? Has the guy been harassed/insulted/bullied for expressing his concerns, that is the vibe I got about it?

@Tom N Please just go to the settings and ignore anyone's posts you do not like reading, it is a forum after all for discussion not North Korea

 

[Tom N]

@George S. Please can you explain the context of that link? Has the guy been harassed/insulted/bullied for expressing his concerns, that is the vibe I got about it?

@Tom N Please just go to the settings and ignore anyone's posts you do not like reading, it is a forum after all for discussion not North Korea

It's all good. I will sit back with some popcorn and enjoy watching little kids hold their breath and turn purple.

 

[wa5]

Tom N, bikenut, the paid shill has out posted us "trolls" 2 to 1... tell him to shut up.. and stop saying the same thing a thousand times over... actually ask him to say something, instead of the constant echoing nothing he has been providing so far...

Just empty promises.. just like Teshub (google it bikenut, you'll get the joke).

 

[Fofer]

If you went to the demo day: Was there enough bike, cycle mojo, and get-up-and-go to motivate you to buy the bike? Yes or No.

I was watching this campaign from the beginning with great interest. And I waited for the Demo Day before pledging, even though I knew that meant my cost would be $599 instead of $499. I simply wanted to see it in person, and experience it, before committing that much money. Initially, I have to confess, I was skeptical.

And so I was there, rider #10, with my family in Santa Monica on 2/15.

And my answer is "yes."

 

[Gus]

Wow all this speculation and mud throwing. I signed up for this forum because I am a bike enthusiast, endurance mountain biker, fat bike curious, 499 funder of the Sondors Ebike campaign and this is my first time in the ebike world.

I know the interwebs is chock full of asshats and blowhards but this is ridiculous. Looking back at this thread it's full of BS. The naysayers have had their chance to naysay so why don't you STFU already. You have made your points a thousand times over.

At this point time will tell.

I would suggest reading posts here outside of the Sondors forum. The Sondors forum is like the dirty bathroom of EBR.

 

[EULITTLB]

@biknut

Philip HillisI'm pretty sure there's a little less than zero chance of that. He's obviously being paid.
Philip HillisSomeone has to be paying him
Philip HillisIf he's not being paid he's some kind of nut
Philip HillisIf anyone wants to observe a paid troll in action, Ian Grace AKA EULITTLB is on the EBR forum right now. He loves taking shots at me every chance he gets. I've gotten under his skin it seems. sunglasses emoticon

You really are an immature POS aren't you?

 

[wa5]

Wow all this speculation and mud throwing. I signed up for this forum because I am a bike enthusiast, endurance mountain biker, fat bike curious, 499 funder of the Sondors Ebike campaign and this is my first time in the ebike world.

QUOTE]

You signed up here to backup Shillmeister Phil. Mr Newton.

 

[biknut]

@biknut

Philip HillisI'm pretty sure there's a little less than zero chance of that. He's obviously being paid.
Philip HillisSomeone has to be paying him
Philip HillisIf he's not being paid he's some kind of nut
Philip HillisIf anyone wants to observe a paid troll in action, Ian Grace AKA EULITTLB is on the EBR forum right now. He loves taking shots at me every chance he gets. I've gotten under his skin it seems. sunglasses emoticon

You really are an immature POS aren't you?

Do I annoy you?

 

[Brambor]

so people are promised a range and the real world range will be less ... that is pretty much every other ebike out there. Why would a manufacturer test an ebike with a 300 lb person biking up to Pike's peak to report back the worst possible range? You test it with 160 lb person on a relatively even course and say that the mileage might vary based on the type of rider, riding and elevation changes.

So, yes... I think this particular bike is underpowered for a Fat Bike but that doesn't mean it does not go forward under power. It does and it will. The point has been made by many. Those who already invested can't get their money back and already know what the naysayers are trumpeting. So let it flow to the next step and stop reiterating the same junk.

 

[J.R.]

The biggest let-down will be the range and the battery performance and charging time but as you correctly note perhaps the target won't be bothered anyway and are not likely to use that range to its full potential anyway.

This statement, picked from a much longer post, in my opinion sums up the good and the bad of what's to come from this indiegogo campaign. Also I don't think anyone can argue with this sentiment that this bike will never reach 20 MPH with the weight of 60 lbs, fat tires and the wind resistance of an upright riding position. Not even on a warm, windless, low humidity day with a flat, hard, smooth surface. It won't happen! It also will never travel more than 15 miles on just battery and motor power. And when you consider the average American adult is at least a little overweight, that's another thing to slow this bike down.

But that won't matter to 8 of 10 people that will get this bike. 12 MPH will be just fine with them and 5 miles out and 5 miles back on a multi-use paved, flat track in the park will be amazing to the vast majority of the users of this bike. I also expect that half or more of these bikes will never be used after the first summer. They'll be put in storage for the winter with a discharged battery and that battery will never hold a proper charge 6 months later when/if the bike is pulled from storage for the spring. That's if the owner hadn't gotten bored and moved onto the next new toy. How many treadmills are used as clothes hangers in bedrooms around the world. This bike wont be a commuter.

I'll also add this; I think it will take at least a year to get bikes to all contributors of the initial 30 day campaign. I hope I'm wrong but that's almost a certain of a new product from China. Add crowd funding track record and well you know. There will also be quality problems, I don't care where this bike is made. 2% total failure, 5 to 8% major failure with components or appearance. That's on delivery, the failures will rise from there during the 30 day warrantee period. That makes for a lot of people going on internet campaigns telling their stories.

Not my humble opinion, just my opinion. I wouldn't trade places with Mr. Sondors, it would take a lot more than 4 mil for me to take on his challenges with this campaign. Biknut, I know you will get something out of your five bills you can do something with! I just hope there are at least 4000 more of you when summer rolls around. It would be cool to see all those yellow bikes on the boardwalks around the world! Should have named it Hornet, or something having to do with black and yellow bees. And... YouLittleBa***** or is it EuropeanUnionLittleB? I've not been sure. I'm sure you've helped people in all this and I hope you get some rest next week.

End of Op Ed.

 

[biknut]

I would suggest reading posts here outside of the Sondors forum. The Sondors forum is like the dirty bathroom of EBR.

I want to know who the hell left the seat down?