Say Hello To Storm

biknut, you do not annoy me at all. I just pity you for being so childish.

Thanks to George S for pointing me to that forum, I came across this post by MWKeefer which I thought was worth sharing

Mwkeefer on February 26, 2015 at 7:48 pm said:


Any person with some experience can tell from the specs they claim and the hardware specs in reality that they are seriously overinflating range, speed on a flat, etc while simultaneously understating weight but that at least has evolved in their specs as times moved on.

The issue many of us on ES have with this “scheme” is simple, when vendors over promise capabilities customers are left unimpressed… At least after the initial, very short (a day?) honeymoon period. The quality is questionable too as the bike itself looks to be thin tube framed, similar to the walmart bikes those of us with some experience know will fail quickly.

The power pack is a freaking joke, that much is self evident.

This is all before production or delivery or lack there of. Personally I don’t think it will materialize or be delivered not because of the people being scammers or “rip off artists” but simply because of poor estimates of costs involved all around by the company. That said, had they stopped funding at 70K perhaps it would have been possible but truly, 7000 EBikes is a huge thing to deliver on and requires massive logistics, man power and warehouse space and who knows if they can pull it off, again at their price point for 7K I just don’t see it coming to fruition.

You of course as anyone on ES is welcome to their opinion but opinions are like aholes and most are uninformed as the lay person who has little or no experience with EBikes, import/export or actual real world specs. After 8 years of building my own EBikes and providing technical consulting to many eBike vendors and builders on ES I think my opinion is an educated one so I stand by it.

Sad part is, no matter if they deliver or not people will be disappointed just like ezip owners and worse because at least ezips don’t over claim their specs and most people are quickly put off by them and their weight, not to mention range and speed.

Personally I wouldn’t be concerned with the storm if it were capped to 70K investment but with 7000 promised (and counting) EBikes I hope everyone realizes how that adds up?

For comparison if January 2014 sales of Chevy volts is 918 units, an annual sales base of roughly 11,000 cars for 2014… But remember that’s a company with infrastructure and experience so 7000+ EBikes from an unknown entity is just plain ridiculous for a company of their size… were this huffy, mongoose or even Schwinn (tail wind?) offering these I’d still believe people would be disappointed but at least I’d believe they could pull off the logistics, but they are known entities like Chevy in the car world.

The whole thing is just a potential powder keg.

To summarize my opinion, I’ve not ordered and will not order one… Even for testing purposes.

-mwkeefer
 
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I post on this forum a lot, though not as much as others. Am I considered a troll or one of the annoying ones? (just curious). ;)

Not that it would stop me from posting my thoughts, but always good to know what group I've been assigned.
 
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@J.R. Slightly off topic, I spelt the user name wrong - E U Little B - my Mum used to call me E for Ian and when I would do something wrong in my later years she use to say E you little B (as in bastard)!

Agree with your post btw
 
This statement, picked from a much longer post, in my opinion sums up the good and the bad of what's to come from this indiegogo campaign. Also I don't think anyone can argue with this sentiment that this bike will never reach 20 MPH with the weight of 60 lbs, fat tires and the wind resistance of an upright riding position. Not even on a warm, windless, low humidity day with a flat, hard, smooth surface. It won't happen! It also will never travel more than 15 miles on just battery and motor power. And when you consider the average American adult is at least a little overweight, that's another thing to slow this bike down.

But that won't matter to 8 of 10 people that will get this bike. 12 MPH will be just fine with them and 5 miles out and 5 miles back on a multi-use paved, flat track in the park will be amazing to the vast majority of the users of this bike. I also expect that half or more of these bikes will never be used after the first summer. They'll be put in storage for the winter with a discharged battery and that battery will never hold a proper charge 6 months later when/if the bike is pulled from storage for the spring. That's if the owner hadn't gotten bored and moved onto the next new toy. How many treadmills are used as clothes hangers in bedrooms around the world. This bike wont be a commuter.

I'll also add this; I think it will take at least a year to get bikes to all contributors of the initial 30 day campaign. I hope I'm wrong but that's almost a certain of a new product from China. Add crowd funding track record and well you know. There will also be quality problems, I don't care where this bike is made. 2% total failure, 5 to 8% major failure with components or appearance. That's on delivery, the failures will rise from there during the 30 day warrantee period. That makes for a lot of people going on internet campaigns telling their stories.

Not my humble opinion, just my opinion. I wouldn't trade places with Mr. Sondors, it would take a lot more than 4 mil for me to take on his challenges with this campaign. Biknut, I know you will get something out of your five bills you can do something with! I just hope there are at least 4000 more of you when summer rolls around. It would be cool to see all those yellow bikes on the boardwalks around the world! Should have named it Hornet, or something having to do with black and yellow bees. And... YouLittleBa***** or is it EuropeanUnionLittleB? I've not been sure. I'm sure you've helped people in all this and I hope you get some rest next week.

End of Op Ed.:)
I think that covers it pretty well...
 
This statement, picked from a much longer post, in my opinion sums up the good and the bad of what's to come from this indiegogo campaign. Also I don't think anyone can argue with this sentiment that this bike will never reach 20 MPH with the weight of 60 lbs, fat tires and the wind resistance of an upright riding position. Not even on a warm, windless, low humidity day with a flat, hard, smooth surface. It won't happen! It also will never travel more than 15 miles on just battery and motor power. And when you consider the average American adult is at least a little overweight, that's another thing to slow this bike down.

But that won't matter to 8 of 10 people that will get this bike. 12 MPH will be just fine with them and 5 miles out and 5 miles back on a multi-use paved, flat track in the park will be amazing to the vast majority of the users of this bike. I also expect that half or more of these bikes will never be used after the first summer. They'll be put in storage for the winter with a discharged battery and that battery will never hold a proper charge 6 months later when/if the bike is pulled from storage for the spring. That's if the owner hadn't gotten bored and moved onto the next new toy. How many treadmills are used as clothes hangers in bedrooms around the world. This bike wont be a commuter.

I'll also add this; I think it will take at least a year to get bikes to all contributors of the initial 30 day campaign. I hope I'm wrong but that's almost a certain of a new product from China. Add crowd funding track record and well you know. There will also be quality problems, I don't care where this bike is made. 2% total failure, 5 to 8% major failure with components or appearance. That's on delivery, the failures will rise from there during the 30 day warrantee period. That makes for a lot of people going on internet campaigns telling their stories.

Not my humble opinion, just my opinion. I wouldn't trade places with Mr. Sondors, it would take a lot more than 4 mil for me to take on his challenges with this campaign. Biknut, I know you will get something out of your five bills you can do something with! I just hope there are at least 4000 more of you when summer rolls around. It would be cool to see all those yellow bikes on the boardwalks around the world! Should have named it Hornet, or something having to do with black and yellow bees. And... YouLittleBa***** or is it EuropeanUnionLittleB? I've not been sure. I'm sure you've helped people in all this and I hope you get some rest next week.

End of Op Ed.:)

Thanks J.R.
 
@biknut , I am really touched, given that J.R. quoted an extract from my post! We can be friends after all - now go and post my piece on your Storm Owners forum and show me no hard feelings? We can both enjoy the weekend then!

The full post (I'll forget about being a paid troll for the mo)

Again I like your post Powerme. I envisage manufacturing setbacks which will delay the project, problems with logistics and ultimately product difficulties (hopefully few, 1-2%?) The Campaign is too high-profile, but where is John Hopp the design genius who had to have the spec changed at the last minute after $2.5m had been pledged?

The biggest let-down will be the range and the battery performance and charging time but as you correctly note perhaps the target won't be bothered anyway and are not likely to use that range to its full potential anyway. A full demo with someone like Court might have realised range problems or over-heating problems with the battery etc., can't imagine why Sondors did not want the bike taken onto the wrong sort of sand when the bike is advertised as a go-anywhere machine.

What we do differ on is the core cost of an ebike, say the SSR Sand Viper selling at $1399 I believe. Far better spec than the Sondors offering which is entry-level and in my uneducated estimation would have a retail value of $899-$999 on the street, but for that it would have a dealer network and support, which presently the Sondors bike does not. Therein whereas the target market are not bike enthusiasts, they will have difficulty doing DIY things with the Sondors offering.

The silence from Sondors however is deafening, when is the next "demo day" for example? Pressure on them to deliver and they are being watched at least might result in pledgers getting something for their money, I believe it will be subject to tax at the very least, it will need battery and safety certification and maybe I am just negative unnecessarily.

But let me be very clear, being banned from Facebook when I asked if there was actually more than one bike and whether there were any schematics for the design, raised my concerns tenfold.
 
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OK so at what point will you consider shutting up ? Hasn't everything been said already? ... and if there is not new news to be had could the incessant reiteration of the same babble be considered a nuisance and appropriate action taken by the modereator? Would be nice. :) I love you biknut. I love you Eulittlb/Wa5 but I don't want to see the same crap on a different page. :)

p.s. and yes I could click ignore but I also don't want this great site forum be tainted. I want everyone to see better quality.
 
@George S. Please can you explain the context of that link? Has the guy been harassed/insulted/bullied for expressing his concerns, that is the vibe I got about it?

@Tom N Please just go to the settings and ignore anyone's posts you do not like reading, it is a forum after all for discussion not North Korea


https://electricfatbike.wordpress.c...ially-ends-our-coverage-of-the-sondors-ebike/

I linked to the wrong page. In the story at the top he mentions getting a refund. Yeah, he definitely took some heat after asking some serious questions about the campaign. But the deal was they DID give him a refund, and now he is done talking about the thing. I don't know how that works. I think a lot of us are just fed up with Sondo.

There's a Dillenger campaign and a Shocke Spark campaign on Kickstarter where everyone just seems upfront and friendly. There are people I want to succeed (I pledged for a tee shirt from Dillenger) and other people like 'Eh'?
 
OK I'll cool off until there is more news - as you know manufacturing is to begin on March 15th, the day when Storm is flying out to China so bang go any more demo days methinks, and the shipping will be "much less" than quoted so things look good!!
 
great - and let us all think happy thoughts and send positive energy to all the yellow fat bikes waiting for their new owners. ;-)

Famous-Sayings_fat+lady+sings-Kumbaya.png

OK I'll cool off until there is more news - as you know manufacturing is to begin on March 15th, the day when Storm is flying out to China so bang go any more demo days methinks, and the shipping will be "much less" than quoted so things look good!!
 
Nice to see this forum has an IGNORE feature. Some folks seem hellbent on repeating themselves over and over, and this takes care of that. :)
 
But I've ignored you already :)

And for what reason, preemptively? I have participated kindly here. In fact, I had defended you (and your right to participate) on the Facebook forums.

No, you're just writing that to engage in a game of "tit for tat." (In other words, you lied. You trolled.)

And with that, I have no more patience for, nor interest in, your words.

/plonk
 
if you want to ignore those who post the same thing over and over again, never once addressing any issues and constantly stirring the pot... its spelt "b i k e n u t". :)
 
Fofer, I apologise, sarcasm/tongue in cheek doesn't convey too well on text in a forum, I put a smiley face after the statement - of course I have not ignored you, we were corresponding quite reasonably about your experiences!!!!

I have sent you a pm as well, surprise surprise Biknut likes your comment (based on a complete misunderstanding) and that is in itself very disappointing.
 
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I want to thank @biknut for backing off a bit recently and not retaliating to some of the negative comments directed towards him. He hasn't been perfect in this tread, there have been others who also got into drama and sort of left the topic of ebikes... Thanks for your positive words @Brambor and everyone else who is interested in the topic and contributing constructively.
 
@Court thst may be the case on this forum, perhaps you don't know the blatant lies he is spreading on the SS Owners forum group, and trying to get them to gang up on me! LOL. This is playground stuff.

Philip HillisI'm pretty sure there's a little less than zero chance of that. He's obviously being paid.
Philip HillisSomeone has to be paying him
Philip HillisIf he's not being paid he's some kind of nut
Philip HillisIf anyone wants to observe a paid troll in action, Ian Grace AKA EULITTLB is on the EBR forum right now. He loves taking shots at me every chance he gets. I've gotten under his skin it seems. sunglasses emoticon

i just cannot understand how anybody but Sondors himself should answer the questions and concerns that I and others have posed, why do others believe they know the answers and are entitled to speak for him ? - they neither know him or in contact wih him by their own admission, yet are fielding for him like they are protecting one of their children. I want honest answers and then I will consider contributing more, but using a 350w bike on the road in the eu is illegal. I don't want to upset or fall out with anyone who tries to answer questions that are posed to a Campaign Owner, nobody but him has the answers, a team of one (never seen or heard of the other guy) who has made wildly exaggerated claims. Good weekend everyone, I need a break.
 
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@Court thst may be the case on this forum, perhaps you don't know the blatant lies he is spreading on the SS Owners forum group, and trying to get them to gang up on me! LOL. This is playground stuff.

Philip HillisI'm pretty sure there's a little less than zero chance of that. He's obviously being paid.
Philip HillisSomeone has to be paying him
Philip HillisIf he's not being paid he's some kind of nut
Philip HillisIf anyone wants to observe a paid troll in action, Ian Grace AKA EULITTLB is on the EBR forum right now. He loves taking shots at me every chance he gets. I've gotten under his skin it seems. sunglasses emoticon

i just cannot understand how anybody but Sondors himself should answer the questions and concerns that I and others have posed, why do others believe they know the answers and are entitled to speak for him ? - they neither know him or in contact wih him by their own admission, yet are fielding for him like they are protecting one of their children. I want honest answers and then I will consider contributing more, but using a 350w bike on the road in the eu is illegal. I don't want to upset or fall out with anyone who tries to answer questions that are posed to a Campaign Owner, nobody but him has the answers, a team of one (never seen or heard of the other guy) who has made wildly exaggerated claims. Good weekend everyone, I need a break.
Hmm... violating your personal name/identity publicly is not very nice if you have not posted it yourself. I am trying to be constructive, forgive and reward positive behavior here where I have some measure of control. You may message him directly here, respectfully, and possibly resolve or redact some of the prior conversation which have caused the hurt.
 
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