Saddle height: The deciding factor?

[Stefan Mikes]

For a few years since I started riding e-bikes I had 72 cm memorized as my "saddle height" (the distance measured from the centre of the bottom bracket or rather the mid-drive motor spindle in the straight line along the seatpost to the surface of the saddle). Once, I took a Specialized pedal bike for the test ride; the LBS mechanic set the saddle a tad too high. Unawares, I completed a rather short ride (some 34 km) devastated.

The years were passing by and eventually I discovered my optimum saddle height dropped to 69 cm. OK, I had it set on my two e-bikes since; it is natural for a human being to shrink in the old age.
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On my latest ride, I managed to raise the saddle "a little, by feeling". It turned a nice ride into a disaster: I was pedalling inefficiently and my groins hurt. After the return, I dropped the saddle on that e-bike (Vado SL) to the original height and the situation went back to normal. Or, I thought so: I still had a feeling I was slightly hanging on the saddle. Testing the saddle height by usual methods. For instance, put your heel on the pedal and rotate the crank so the leg is fully extended. It all seemed normal.

I gave this Saddle Height Calculator a try. The results produced a ridiculously low saddle height values. I tried the LeMond method: measure your barefoot inseam in cm and multiply by 0.883. That also gave the lower saddle height but not as low as the calculator.

So I dropped the saddle by 1 cm/10 mm (it is a big deal). The outcome: I feel low on the e-bike. Nothing dramatic but I must have got used to the previous setup. No gain on the measured leg power. Only I realised the saddle pressure on my butt has decreased.

I feel helpless... Opinions? Experiences?

 

[mrgold35]

I have to go by feel for my seat height (mainly any left knee pain when my saddle is to low).

I usually factor in:
- shoe stiffness and thickness
- padded shorts
- saddle type and thickness (cloud-9 cruiser seat with springs)
- stem length (350mm is too short and need +400mm)
- suspension seatpost float (switched from NCX SP-12 to Kinect Bodyfloat)
- handlebar height
- knee position on down stroke

 

[PedalUma]

I like the heal, toe method. On the saddle with the pedal fully extended and the heal on the pedal, the knee should be straight and locked. And when the ball of the foot is on the pedal the knee should be slightly bent. @mrgold35 is correct in mentioning footwear. I generally prefer shoes that are thin, comfortable, and flexible with grippy platform pedals. That way I can pull back and up without clipping in, so I am ready for walking at my destination. Cycling is about getting somewhere and what you are doing when you arrive.

 

[Cycologist]

It's interesting how the smallest changes can make a big difference.

I use a goniometer to measure leg angle and adjusted my seat accordingly. Then I got a new pair of biking shoes and started having knee pain.
Turns out the new shoes changed something and I had to raise the seat 1 cm, which corrected the issue.

I'm still battling seat height, angle and forward / back position. I can't seem to get it right and probably need to go to a bike fitter.

 

[BEC111]

For a few years since I started riding e-bikes I had 72 cm memorized as my "saddle height" (the distance measured from the centre of the bottom bracket or rather the mid-drive motor spindle in the straight line along the seatpost to the surface of the saddle). Once, I took a Specialized pedal bike for the test ride; the LBS mechanic set the saddle tad too high. Unawares, I completed a rather short ride (some 34 km) devastated.

The years were passing by and eventually I discovered my optimum saddle height dropped to 69 cm. OK, I had it set on my two e-bikes since; it is natural for a human being to shrink in the old age.
------------
On my latest ride, I managed to raise the saddle "a little, by feeling". It turned a nice ride into a disaster: I was pedalling inefficiently and my groins hurt. After the return, I dropped the saddle on that e-bike (Vado SL) to the original height and the situation went back to normal. Or, I thought so: I still had a feeling I was slightly hanging on the saddle. Testing the saddle height by usual methods. For instance, put your heel on the pedal and rotate the crank so the leg is fully extended. It all seemed normal.

I gave this Saddle Height Calculator a try. The results produced a ridiculously low saddle height values. I tried the LeMond method: measure your barefoot inseam in cm and multiply by 0.883. That also gave the lower saddle height but not as low as the calculator.

So I dropped the saddle by 1 cm/10 mm (it is a big deal). The outcome: I feel low on the e-bike. Nothing dramatic but I must have got used to the previous setup. No gain on the measured leg power. Only I realised the saddle pressure on my butt has decreased.

I feel helpless... Opinions? Experiences?

I’m puttering in the same playground with my new bike. I’m using the same suspension seat post that I had on the SL1 but the initial setup has the saddle at a much lower position according to the measurement marks on the seatpost. It’s been dangerously hot and now extremely dangerous Canadian wild fire smoke have prevented my riding this week so I can’t do additional saddle height tweaking. (Minor, but fun advantage to the SL2 - the new bike uses a more conventional clamp. No more saddle post wedge falling into the frame!)

 

[6zfshdb]

When it comes to saddles, posts and their adjustments, everyone has different requirements for a "comfortable" ride. From personal experience, I've found age has a lot to do with this. In my younger years, I would adjust the seat height so my leg was absolutely straight on the downstroke. This gave me the most efficient and comfortable ride. The down side was, I would have to slide forward off the seat when stopping to get my feet on the ground. No big deal for a younger person.

For me to do this now is a risk because my balance isn't what it used to be. At this point, I prefer to lower the seat to where I can touch the ground with my toes on both sides while my butt is still on the saddle when stopping. This means my leg is slightly bent on the downstroke, which results in a loss of efficiency. However, the e-bike easily compensates for this loss. I do sacrifice some seat comfort doing this, but to me anyway, the tradeoff is worth it.

Just my experience though, so YMMV.

 

[PedalUma]

When it comes to saddles, posts and their adjustments, everyone has different requirements for a "comfortable" ride. From personal experience, I've found age has a lot to do with this. In my younger years, I would adjust the seat height so my leg was absolutely straight on the downstroke. This gave me the most efficient and comfortable ride. The down side was, I would have to slide forward off the seat when stopping to get my feet on the ground. No big deal for a younger person.

For me to do this now is a risk because my balance isn't what it used to be. At this point, I prefer to lower the seat to where I can touch the ground with my toes on both sides while my butt is still on the saddle when stopping. This means my leg is slightly bent on the downstroke, which results in a loss of efficiency. However, the e-bike easily compensates for this loss. I do sacrifice some seat comfort doing this, but to me anyway, the tradeoff is worth it.

Just my experience though, so YMMV.

@6zfshdb, You may like a foot forward bike. They are super comfortable. You can get full leg extension and still place your feet on the ground. Putting a mid-drive on a Specialized Roll does this. You are upright and it has a lax geometry. The wheel base is also long for stability. It can come in a low entry model. See the angle of the seat tube? That lowers the distance to the ground. But full leg extension is a bit more like a semi-recumbent with the foot forward. Race bikes have a nearly vertical seat tube. And they have twitchy handling. Note the distance from the bb to the rear tire and the rake of the fork. Just like a longer boat better handles choppy seas, this bike give a smoother ride.

 

[6zfshdb]

@6zfshdb, You may like a foot forward bike. They are super comfortable. You can get full leg extension and still place your feet on the ground. Putting a mid-drive on a Specialized Roll does this. You are upright and it has a lax geometry. The wheel base is also long for stability. It can come in a low entry model. See the angle of the seat tube? That lowers the distance to the ground. But full leg extension is a bit more like a semi-recumbent with the foot forward. Race bikes have a nearly vertical seat tube. And they have twitchy handling. Note the distance from the bb to the rear tire and the rake of the fork. Just like a longer boat better handles choppy seas, this bike give a smoother ride.

View attachment 212851

One of my last conventional bikes, a Diamondback Sorrento, had the crank considerably forward of the vertical and at some point it began to bother my back. I switched to a Trek Shift 4 with a more vertical alignment and found it much more comfortable.

Could be different with an e-bike though, since it does some of the work. Might be worth a try.

 

[Aushiker]

For a few years since I started riding e-bikes I had 72 cm memorized as my "saddle height" (the distance measured from the centre of the bottom bracket or rather the mid-drive motor spindle in the straight line along the seatpost to the surface of the saddle). Once, I took a Specialized pedal bike for the test ride; the LBS mechanic set the saddle a tad too high. Unawares, I completed a rather short ride (some 34 km) devastated.

The years were passing by and eventually I discovered my optimum saddle height dropped to 69 cm. OK, I had it set on my two e-bikes since; it is natural for a human being to shrink in the old age.
------------
On my latest ride, I managed to raise the saddle "a little, by feeling". It turned a nice ride into a disaster: I was pedalling inefficiently and my groins hurt. After the return, I dropped the saddle on that e-bike (Vado SL) to the original height and the situation went back to normal. Or, I thought so: I still had a feeling I was slightly hanging on the saddle. Testing the saddle height by usual methods. For instance, put your heel on the pedal and rotate the crank so the leg is fully extended. It all seemed normal.

I gave this Saddle Height Calculator a try. The results produced a ridiculously low saddle height values. I tried the LeMond method: measure your barefoot inseam in cm and multiply by 0.883. That also gave the lower saddle height but not as low as the calculator.

So I dropped the saddle by 1 cm/10 mm (it is a big deal). The outcome: I feel low on the e-bike. Nothing dramatic but I must have got used to the previous setup. No gain on the measured leg power. Only I realised the saddle pressure on my butt has decreased.

I feel helpless... Opinions? Experiences?

I have tried various saddle height calculators and had similar experiences to yours.

So I now have my saddle height at a height that feels comfortable for me and have left it alone. It has been the same saddle height on six bikes or thereabouts over time (pre and post-calculators). I might try lowering the saddle height, as you did, to see how it feels.

Just to add to the mix, according to the Riese and Mueller specifications, I should have the next frame size down, which, having tried that frame size, I found totally wrong for me. A cramped feeling resulted.

Mind you, I also have my saddle titled'back', which apparently is a no-no. Setting my saddle according to the 'experts' is a disaster for my riding.

So I see height and tilt guidance as a starting point only, and adjust from there.

 

[Aushiker]

I use a goniometer to measure leg angle and adjusted my seat accordingly.

I had to Google 'gonionmeter' ... that name scared me

 

[stompandgo]

1cm (edit: corrected) is a huge difference. An experienced cyclist, no matter how hard or fast they ride, can usually feel a difference in the single millimeters. @Stefan Mikes , use your current setting as your baseline, and make changes a millimeter at a time. Do the same for your for fore and aft. Depending on where your saddle is set now, moving the saddle back a little bit can result in more power, or less effort for the same power.

There are so many factors involved in proper bike fitting. Two riders can have the exact same torso and leg dimensions, but you also have to consider pedal and shoe choice, pedaling style, injuries or body irregularities like leg or foot length differences, and most important, how the rider feels.

 

[BEC111]

10cm is a huge difference. An experienced cyclist, no matter how hard or fast they ride, can usually feel a difference in the single millimeters. @Stefan Mikes , use your current setting as your baseline, and make changes a millimeter at a time. Do the same for your for fore and aft. Depending on where your saddle is set now, moving the saddle back a little bit can result in more power, or less effort for the same power.

There are so many factors involved in proper bike fitting. Two riders can have the exact same torso and leg dimensions, but you also have to consider pedal and shoe choice, pedaling style, injuries or body irregularities like leg or foot length differences, and most important, how the rider feels.

This why I’ll be fiddling with saddle position in the next few weeks. (I believe the Brit’s call it fading?) Initial position is pretty good, but I know I need to make a few tweaks. Part of cycling being a hobby.

 

[PedalUma]

One of my last conventional bikes, a Diamondback Sorrento, had the crank considerably forward of the vertical and at some point it began to bother my back. I switched to a Trek Shift 4 with a more vertical alignment and found it much more comfortable.

Could be different with an e-bike though, since it does some of the work. Might be worth a try.

The Marin Stinson 2 has a similar foot forward geo to the Roll, in a mid-step for casual in-town rides. It also comes with a wide range of gears for hills.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

10cm

I said 10 mm
Besides, I have found the 69 cm setting on my big Vado a tad too high but cannot change it for technical reasons and it is still acceptable.

 

[Marcela]

I go by feel anymore, I have a pretty good idea what works for me. My theory, when you sprint as in running, accelerating, you are at the optimum knee angle for your condition. When riding the bike, I know what kind of knee angle I can use and push the most on the pedals. It is nice to be able to touch the ground when coming to a stop while sitting on the seat. I can watch people on the bike path and pretty much tell if the seat height is too tall or short and whether the reach fits them, but people are happy riding different styles.

 

[PedalUma]

I go by feel anymore, I have a pretty good idea what works for me. My theory, when you sprint as in running, accelerating, you are at the optimum knee angle for your condition. When riding the bike, I know what kind of knee angle I can use and push the most on the pedals. It is nice to be able to touch the ground when coming to a stop while sitting on the seat. I can watch people on the bike path and pretty much tell if the seat height is too tall or short and whether the reach fits them, but people are happy riding different styles.

Yes, like the full grown man riding, with a cowboy hat and boots, a 20" child's BMX with his knees at his shoulders! A few years ago a woman who had a road bike that I converted earlier wanted a more comfortable, casual bike. She went to the corporate store where thay are trained to upsell, like the casket salesman pitching the bronze one to a widow. She lives in a coastal town called Inverness, on a huge hill overlooking the Pacific. She told them it had to climb. They sold her the most expensive Gazelle. It could not make the hill. She had to walk it two miles up hill. She called me. I got her a full refund. Then we walked across the street to the Marin Store and purchased a Stinson 2 that I then converted. It is comfortable and climbs her hill like a goat. She also saved thousands. Here is a converted Roll.

 

[stompandgo]

I said 10 mm
Besides, I have found the 69 cm setting on my big Vado a tad too high but cannot change it for technical reasons and it is still acceptable.

corrected