Rolloff competition??

[grench]

http://www.kindernay.com/products/
This sounds interesting.

Title should be Rohloff...spell check got me again...

 

[SCbiker]

beautiful piece ... wonder how much that bad boy is ? $1500usd?

 

[Toynut]

Early bird special lists it at just under $1,200.

 

[SCbiker]

may have to sell my dog's sunglasses when my Alfine 11 wears out !

those are a work of miniature machining art ... I am curious about the

hydraulic shifting ... what happens when you need to remove rear wheel etc.

must have a mechanical interface in the rear.

B.

tks for posting


I read a little further ... it states
For quick wheel removal, the actuator is easy to detach from the hub, and equally easy to mount. For longevity, the actuator is mounted on the inside of the frame axle mounts, well protected from potential impacts.

 

[flymeaway]

This sounds interesting.

It looks very interesting! I can attest to the quality of Rohloff's IGH, but competition is a good thing. Thanks for the post.

Court J.

 

[SCbiker]

Just for future refrence and my own curiosity ... Does anyone know if the the Alfine and Rohloff 14 are interchangeable ... Ie ... Will they both use same drop outs and close to same width / lace up to same wheels ?

Appreciate any insight ...

Tks, B.

 

[TomD]

Anyone have more info on these? Seems it took them a few years to put out a product. They are curiously silent comparing to Rohloff on their website and FAQ. From what I gather they might be lighter.

If I did my math right it seems it's pricing around $825 plus shipping after 20% off.

Retail price: International customers: NOK 11’992, plus shipping

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=3332805816734552&id=1213019842046504

It seems a bit noisy:

 

[TomD]

I contacted them in regards to why they don't make any comparisons to Rohloff. They replied they have regulatory restrictions on comparative advertising but provided the following info that can be used for comparison, as similar info on other hubs is likely available from respective websites:
- The complete system weight of the Kindernay XIV is 1960g. (That includes XIV hub with drive cog , SWAP shell, torque reaction bracket, HYSEQ shifter unit (shifters, lines and hydraulic actuator), bolts, etc.)
- Max torque rating is 150Nm.
- Warranty: 2 years against manufacturing defects
- Sound level: with straight cut gears (for strength and efficiency), it makes a distinct sound, but it hard to compare directly to other setups, as people react differently to different sound frequencies, ie. Person X might perceive product A as louder, while Person Y might perceive product B as louder.

Other benefits include:
- The ability to run a true, full length 12mm Tru Axle, for added stiffness.
- It is easy to convert the same hub between 135/10, 142/12 and 148/12. Nice for frame/bike upgrades or swapping between bikes.
- The separate SWAP shell makes it comparatively inexpensive to have several IGH wheelsets, as the SWAP shell retails for EUR 119, and that compares very favorably to the cost of a second, internal gear hub.
- Hydraulic shifting is virtually maintenance free, and not affected by sand, rust, cable 'stretch' etc.
- We use standard Shimano DX drive cogs that are available from most bike shops.
- Trigger shifters are preferred by many riders.
- Large diameter bolt circle on the custom brake rotor makes it stiff, and very resistant to squealing, etc.

 

[Alaskan]

Good to see some real competition for Rohloff. Rohloff is a well designed and durable product but their service at Cycle Monkey in North America is ridiculously slow, parts availability is awful and customer communication is non existent. Maybe this will force them to get their act together.

 

[bob armani]

I thought they would have somehow incorporated electronic shifting into this new and exiting tech IMO. Probably easier said then done. I would like to see that as an added option somewhere down the road.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

I thought they would have somehow incorporated electronic shifting into this new and exiting tech IMO. Probably easier said then done. I would like to see that as an added option somewhere down the road.

Even though electronic shifting is nice, I am of the opinion that it is a solution looking for a problem.

For my money an IGH that was substantially lighter or had a maintenance cycle on the order of 20,000km would be a better place improve an already pretty awesome product.

I do like the ability to use a through axle on the Kindernay.

 

[Explorer-1]

....
If I did my math right it seems it's pricing around $825 plus shipping after 20% off.
....

According to their website it is more than that.

Subtotal	€ 1,199.00
Coupon: facebook20	-€ 239.80 [Remove]
Shipping	Shipping: € 49.00 Shipping to MA, United States (US).
Total	€ 1,008.20

Which is roughly $1,084.59 US

The savings may not be worth it.

 

[bob armani]

Even though electronic shifting is nice, I am of the opinion that it is a solution looking for a problem.

For my money an IGH that was substantially lighter or had a maintenance cycle on the order of 20,000km would be a better place improve an already pretty awesome product.

I do like the ability to use a through axle on the Kindernay.

Agreed, however, even though ES has its drawbacks, integrating it into the system may make it a more attractive buy for riders looking for that option when made available.

 

[smorgasbord]

Even though electronic shifting is nice, I am of the opinion that it is a solution looking for a problem.

My wife has thumb & hand issues and so having electronic shifting was great for her.

I've talked with mountain bikers using the SRAM electronic wireless AXS system, and they love it. No half-shifts, no missed shifts, no cables to install/adjust/replace eventually. Just charge that battery every 20-25 hours of mountain biking (less frequently for touring).

She's on an SRAM SX drivetrain bike now. The mechanical shifters are pretty easy to push, but it seems that for long rides she may end up with thumbn issues, in which case I might switch her to the (pricey!) AXS.

 

[dblhelix]

Good to see some real competition for Rohloff. Rohloff is a well designed and durable product but their service at Cycle Monkey in North America is ridiculously slow, parts availability is awful and customer communication is non existent. Maybe this will force them to get their act together.

Cycle Monkey is the worst vendor experience I’ve ever had. It is a shame that they are the go-to for German companies like Rohloff, Tout Terrain and indirectly, R&M, for USA service.

FWIW, I’ve been told that Peter White is receiving training for Rohloff service.

 

[bob armani]

My wife has thumb & hand issues and so having electronic shifting was great for her.

I've talked with mountain bikers using the SRAM electronic wireless AXS system, and they love it. No half-shifts, no missed shifts, no cables to install/adjust/replace eventually. Just charge that battery every 20-25 hours of mountain biking (less frequently for touring).

She's on an SRAM SX drivetrain bike now. The mechanical shifters are pretty easy to push, but it seems that for long rides she may end up with thumbn issues, in which case I might switch her to the (pricey!) AXS.

Pricey, yes, but if it makes her rides more enjoyable with less fatigue in the thumbs, worth its weight in gold IMO. I do hope they make more upgrade kits that are cross-compatible with most of the makes and models of derailleurs. Looks like the AXS system is only compatible with a few of the SRAM products in their line. El-Dropper post batteries are also swappable as well.

 

[Alaskan]

Pricey, yes, but if it makes her rides more enjoyable with less fatigue in the thumbs, worth its weight in gold IMO. I do hope they make more upgrade kits that are cross-compatible with most of the makes and models of derailleurs. Looks like the AXS system is only compatible with a few of the SRAM products in their line. El-Dropper post batteries are also swappable as well.

T
I just had the Sram X01 AXS upgrade kit installed on a new Trek Allant 9.9s. The bike's drive train is Shimano xt8100 12 speed. It is seamlessly compatible with the Shimano XT CS-M8100 12-speed MTB 10-51T,Micro Spline .

 

[TomD]

I am guessing they will eventually move to an electronic shifting system. Just makes no sense to have those 2 clunky heavy hydraulic shifters. From what I've heard they are more focused on the off road / MTB segment.

 

[TomD]

According to their website it is more than that.

Subtotal	€ 1,199.00
Coupon: facebook20	-€ 239.80 [Remove]
Shipping	Shipping: € 49.00 Shipping to MA, United States (US).
Total	€ 1,008.20

Which is roughly $1,084.59 US

The savings may not be worth it.

Thanks, they have changed the pricing. Originally it said "international customers: NOK 11’992, plus shipping" which is approx 1000 euros. Maybe that was an error as they have raised it to 1199 euros. Or maybe they just raised the price so they could take 20% off. Edit: Here is the original page complements of the wayback machine, draw your own conclusion:

Kindernay XIV Transmission System - Kindernay

Kindernay XIV gear system DESCRIPTION: 1x Kindernay XIV, 14-speed internally geared hub, with choice of axle version, 135×10, 142×12, 148×12, 190×10, 197×12 1x Kindernay HYSEQ shifter set 1x Kindernay SWAP unlaced wheel cage, OR 1x Kindernay SWAP wheel cage laced with a basic aluminium rim...

web.archive.org

 

[Alaskan]

They need to develop an electro-hydraulic mech, that runs off an ebikes own battery. Then there can be a compact two-button thumb pad with a thin, two lead cable to the mech. Two hydraulic lines with two separate shifters is way too bulky, heavy and clunky a control system for a modern drive train.