Replacing the drivetrain in Vado SL 4.0: Does it make sense?

[rochrunner]

So instead of cog 18 you would get 17 - 19 cog? And all the rest is the same.
My 2c: too much fuss changing the drivetrain components for that (little?) effect.

The difference that I see is that from 15 to 21 the 11-speed has 3-tooth jumps where the 12-spd goes up by 2s. I tend to notice these differences, especially when riding in situations where one gear feels a little too high but downshifting makes it feel a little too low -- like a 10rpm difference in cadence between cogs. I remember on my old road bike that had a triple crank and a 11-27 10-speed cassette, the gears were very closely spaced (many just a tooth difference) and I enjoyed clicking from gear to gear while keeping my cadence almost constant. That's one of my criticisms of the 1x drivetrain trend in general: huge gaps between gears.

 

[kahn]

Exactly my experience Roch - clunking through shifts if I'm pedaling. I've taken to stop pedaling for a second when shifting and seems to be bit less stressful sounding on the drivetrain. I'm not sure if this will have positive effect on chain and cassette but hopeful.

I, too, try backing off just a tad when shifting on an uphill. The issue for some of our hills is that they start off a bit gradually and then increase in angle and increase in angle. Downshifting too soon to the lowest gears to tackle the steeper bits means spinning too fast to maintain momentum. So it really does require downshift, forward, downshift forward in steps.. CLUNK!

 

[linklemming]

Ever ridden a mid-drive motor with torque sensing?
Busted.

PedalUma specializes in building ebikes with the TSDZ2 which is torque sensing.

Perhaps more research on your part?

 

[kahn]

The difference that I see is that from 15 to 21 the 11-speed has 3-tooth jumps where the 12-spd goes up by 2s. I tend to notice these differences, especially when riding in situations where one gear feels a little too high but downshifting makes it feel a little too low -- like a 10rpm difference in cadence between cogs. I remember on my old road bike that had a triple crank and a 11-27 10-speed cassette, the gears were very closely spaced (many just a tooth difference) and I enjoyed clicking from gear to gear while keeping my cadence almost constant. That's one of my criticisms of the 1x drivetrain trend in general: huge gaps between gears.

But, but ..... Widening the space between cranks/pedals to accommodate an additional gear upfront would make for an uncomfortable spread between feet, knees and thighs (for some, I'm sure there are anatomies that can handle that) - that Q factor.

So the next generation will have to come up with a narrower motor/housing, I guess.

 

[TS25]

The difference that I see is that from 15 to 21 the 11-speed has 3-tooth jumps where the 12-spd goes up by 2s. I tend to notice these differences, especially when riding in situations where one gear feels a little too high but downshifting makes it feel a little too low -- ... That's one of my criticisms of the 1x drivetrain trend in general: huge gaps between gears.

Agreed that 3-tooth-jumps are noticeable (even the CS-M7000: 11-13-15-17-19-21-24-28-32-37-42t has them between 24 - 42t) but I would rather change to a Shimano 10-speed CS-HG500-10 11-32 or 11-34 cassette if closing that gap (15 -21) is my aim.
11-32 comes with 11-12-14-16-18-20-22-25-28-32Z
11-34 comes with 11-13-15-17-19-21-23-26-30-34Z.

So all you need to change ist the 10-speed-cassette, and no further components of the drivetrain.
But you loose granny gears. There's always a toad to be swallowed.

 

[rochrunner]

But, but ..... Widening the space between cranks/pedals to accommodate an additional gear upfront would make for an uncomfortable spread between feet, knees and thighs (for some, I'm sure there are anatomies that can handle that) - that Q factor.

So the next generation will have to come up with a narrower motor/housing, I guess.

Correct -- I was just throwing that in as an example of a more ideal shifting experience. That actually dates back to my old Specialized Sequoia that came with a Sora triple crank and 8 speeds that I later updated to a complete 105 triple-10spd drivetrain (yes, in those days the 105 groupset had a triple-crankset option). These days, high-end triples are long gone and now doubles are trending that way, although I think that someone still offers triples for use on touring bikes that require a really wide range of gears.

 

[Nubnub]

Agreed that 3-tooth-jumps are noticeable (even the CS-M7000: 11-13-15-17-19-21-24-28-32-37-42t has them between 24 - 42t) but I would rather change to a Shimano 10-speed CS-HG500-10 11-32 or 11-34 cassette if closing that gap (15 -21) is my aim.
11-32 comes with 11-12-14-16-18-20-22-25-28-32Z
11-34 comes with 11-13-15-17-19-21-23-26-30-34Z.

So all you need to change ist the 10-speed-cassette, and no further components of the drivetrain.
But you loose granny gears. There's always a toad to be swalled.

Agree with this approach. On uphills with 10-15% grade I do use the granny gear in Eco. I think I could lose the lower granny gear or two by adding more assist. I'm gonna take note of how hard it will be in the 32, 37 or even 28 rear tooth. When it comes time to change the casstte, I will probably swap out and lose a granny gear or two or three. But for anything other than hill climbing, the closer ratios will be worth it for me.

 

[aj1]

Sell it and buy 5.0?

 

[rochrunner]

Sell it and buy 5.0?

Good luck finding one!

 

[kahn]

Correct -- I was just throwing that in as an example of a more ideal shifting experience. That actually dates back to my old Specialized Sequoia that came with a Sora triple crank and 8 speeds that I later updated to a complete 105 triple-10spd drivetrain (yes, in those days the 105 groupset had a triple-crankset option). These days, high-end triples are long gone and now doubles are trending that way, although I think that someone still offers triples for use on touring bikes that require a really wide range of gears.

Oh, I know from the BANISHMENT of triples. I had a custom titanium bike built and could NOT get him to provide a triple. Shimano supposedly phased them out. I even pointed to an ad/review on his website where some guy profusely thanked my builder for talking him into a triple. At that point I had already had my right hip replaced a second time and was looking for super low gearing. That bike has now been converted to a front hub motor but frankly, the Specialized handles better without that weighty motor in the front wheel, although that motor is more powerful than the Creo's.

 

[PedalUma]

@Stefan Mikes, If your torque sensing mid-drives had adequate power, than you would not need to concern yourself with the minutia of shifting between cogs and you could use a stronger drivetrain with something such as a 10-42. Upgrade the motor. Problem solved.

 

[rochrunner]

@Stefan Mikes, If your torque sensing mid-drives had adequate power, than you would not need to concern yourself with the minutia of shifting between cogs and you could use a stronger drivetrain with something such as a 10-42. Upgrade the motor. Problem solved.

Or you could just buy a motorcycle and not do any work at all, which is apparently what you're looking for.

 

[Marcela]

Or you could just buy a motorcycle and not do any work at all, which is apparently what you're looking for.

I’ve seen some class 2s floating around town that look like would fill the cracks well.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

TS25 has inadvertently invented a good idea. Dismantling both 11-42t and 11-34t and making a perfect cassette from both, including the granny gear!

 

[TForan]

Or you could just buy a motorcycle and not do any work at all, which is apparently what you're looking for.

Exaggerate much ? Nothing wrong with having adequate power when needed. Hardly a motorcycle.

 

[PedalUma]

Exaggerate much ? Nothing wrong with having adequate power when needed. Hardly a motorcycle.

 

[TS25]

TS25 has inadvertently invented a good idea. Dismantling both 11-42t and 11-34t and making a perfect cassette from both, including the granny gear!

Hmm.
Better check that first by taking your Shimano CS-HG500-10 cassette off your bike and try to take it apart. Looking at the explosion drawing 8 cogs seem to be a riveted block and only the two smallest cogs are seperate. Only 11t, 12t or 13t cogs are offered single in the afterbuy market which seems to prove my assumption. Your idea won't work then.

You might look for another Shimano or SRAM 10-speed-cassette, too.

11-speed-cassettes would need a different freehub/rotor except Shimano CS-HG 700-11 or CS-HG 800-11. But you would need other shifters as well. Derailleur?

 

[Rás Cnoic]

Correct -- I was just throwing that in as an example of a more ideal shifting experience. That actually dates back to my old Specialized Sequoia that came with a Sora triple crank and 8 speeds that I later updated to a complete 105 triple-10spd drivetrain (yes, in those days the 105 groupset had a triple-crankset option). These days, high-end triples are long gone and now doubles are trending that way, although I think that someone still offers triples for use on touring bikes that require a really wide range of gears.

Well triples are not quite gone yet, shimano still make plenty. I just did up my old alloy hybrid 26"er into a proper Moor-go-anywhere bike with a granny gear of 16 inches and a new Shimano Alivio triple 22T32T44T plus new Deore derailleur & 36T biggest cog. The range of gears available is perfect for the hilly and rough terrain here. With my Vado SL back in the shop I've being loving this sweet ride, on roads, bridleways and even had a blast with it on the local trail centre on the Red trail ('Danger-use suitable equipment' the notice said!) - the Full sus boys had their eyes popping when they saw me bouncing around the course!! The Continental Race Kings are just the best btw.

 

[Marcela]

Hmm.
Better check that first by taking your Shimano CS-HG500-10 cassette off your bike and try to take it apart. Looking at the explosion drawing 8 cogs seem to be a riveted block and only the two smallest cogs are seperate. Only 11t, 12t or 13t cogs are offered single in the afterbuy market which seems to prove my assumption. Your idea won't work then.

You might look for another Shimano or SRAM 10-speed-cassette, too.

11-speed-cassettes would need a different freehub/rotor except Shimano CS-HG 700-11 or CS-HG 800-11. But you would need other shifters as well. Derailleur?

I’ve done similar on two other bikes and sometimes the cogs that are joined can be separated and still used. I was playing with the Vado 11 spd and for what I was trying to do the cogs could not be separated and reused. But not saying your choice will not work.
The two I changed were 10 spd to eliminate the jump in the middle. I find the 11 spd quite perfect on the Vado and Como for my everyday use.
Also you can buy separate cogs if you can find them.

 

[Dallant]

I need to ask you for the last time: Please don't take part in my threads before you buy the e-bike I'm discussing.
Apparently you have no idea what the derailleur is for. If you, however, understand the principle of the derailleur, please tell me what "maintaining a proper cadence" has in common with "motor power".

If you, however, insist on giving me your enlightening advice, please also tell me what motor could be used to replace Specialized SL 1.1 that is present in: Creo SL, Vado SL, Como SL, Levo SL, and Kenevo SL. Thank you.

For your information: Specialized is one of the three largest and most respected bicycle manufacturers worldwide.

This is the Stefan go to. Stay out of MY threads unless you own that bike! Of course, that never applies to him. Next you will need to be a dues-paying member to belong to the club. I’m sure a Specialized-only forum is in the planning stages.