Upgrading Vado SL Shimano Drivetrain From 10 to 12-speed

[Stefan Mikes]

I know what you mean about the battery. The Shimano Di2 battery lasts for ever and never had a issue. The SRAM AXS battery has give me a couple of warning. The SRAM batteries are about 50 euro each, but you can buy a wire that will allow you plug the derailleur directly into your ebike and it is only 190 euros !!!!

Slow down please.
The derailleur needs a powerful rechargeable battery. Where is it stored? How often does it need to be recharged?

If you can pług one of these derailleurs to be powered by e-bike, does it work on your Creo 1? I wonder whether it would work on my Vado SL version 1!

More importantly:
Creo is a road e-bike. Vado SL is based on MTB. What are long cage MTB electronic drivetrains?

 

[Dazmanturbo]

Slow down please.
The derailleur needs a powerful rechargeable battery. Where is it stored? How often does it need to be recharged?

If you can pług one of these derailleurs to be powered by e-bike, does it work on your Creo 1? I wonder whether it would work on my Vado SL version 1!

More importantly:
Creo is a road e-bike. Vado SL is based on MTB. What are long cage MTB electronic drivetrains?

I have Shimano Di2 on my Creo1 and this had a large battery in the seat tube. This battery lasted 6 months at a time and I have a display on the bar to show gears and battery life, so was easy to see when it needed charging.

The Creo 2 came with SRAM 12 speed and I have stuck with that as the Shimano Di2 is not possible for what I want, as 12 Speed Di2 GRX was no released and the MTB Di2 needs the Shimano motor due to the to auto shift function.

The SRAM battery for the wireless derailleur is 3.7v and 300mah. SRAM state riding is between 25 and 60 hours for this battery. When my Creo 2 is at home, I do disconnect the battery as wakes ups when the bike is moved as this can drain the battery.

The charge wire SRAM currently sell is specifically for the Bosch motor and is plugged in the spare post. I have seen other that have re-made the cable and plugged it in to 12v light circuit with a step down resistor. This will be the option I am looking at. Likely less than 10 euros in parts and using an old SRAM battery cover to make the terminal connection

With SRAM, the AXS wireless stuff speak to each other with ease. Meaning you can have any SRAM AXS derailleur (MTB or road) and this will speak to any SRAM AXS shifter, including the wireless blips.

 

[BikerG]

I run Shimano 12 speed drivetrains on both my e-bike and my regular mtb. My regular mtb runs 30x10-51, but since the dynamics on my e-bike is different I settled on 34x10-45, which I’m happy with, even loaded with 25 pounds of bikepacking gear. With pedal assist during steep climbs I found that I don’t need comparable, very low gear inches I require on my regular mtb.
I use the clamp style Shimano XT 12-speed shifter, which came with the shifter cable installed.
And rather than messing with swapping hub bodies, I purchased new Shimano XT microspline wheelsets.
And believe me, having that 10t cog makes a difference for me, especially when running a smaller chainring.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

These parts have been ordered:

• Shifter: Shimano Deore SL-M5100, drive side, 11-speed
• Cassette: Shimano CS-M5100, 11-speed, 11-51T
• Derailleur: Shimano Deore RD-M5100-SGS 11-speed (long cage), Shadow RD+ clutch
• Chain: KMC E11, 11-speed, E-Bike, 122 links
• Chainring: Snail, 1x, 104 BCD, 36T, Narrow Wide
• (Shipment for 1 grosz, or free)

Total price PLN 753.88 (or US$190 at the daily exchange rate).

I will collect a new drive-side crank for my Vado SL tomorrow on Saturday, so I will have a rideable Fearless again. Then the parts will arrive and we will replace the drivetrain.

Until May, I intend to use the 42T Garbaruk chainring. For this reason, the 122 link new chain would be ideal. Just before the first race, I will replace the chainring with the 36T one to get 20 gear-inch MTB gearing. I will need to shorten the chain with (I think) 2 links.

 

[Deacon Blues]

Love Garbaruk products, but damn they're expensive.....crappy Canadian dollar

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Love Garbaruk products, but damn they're expensive.....crappy Canadian dollar

That's why I will use the small chainring for the two races and reinstall Garbaruk for everyday use later.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

It's done!

My eventual criteria for the drivetrain upgrade were:

• A cassette with a wide range of gears
• A Shimano "push-pull" shifter was a must
• Retaining the existing HG freehub body
• Possibly inexpensive in maintenance
• A serviceable cassette

There was no other choice than the Shimano wide range (1x11) M5100 drivetrain. The total part cost was equivalent to some 150 GBP or 190 US$. My brother Jacek took the work (and I have compensated him with a nice gift for that!)

The freehub body as used by Specialized in Vado SL is not bad at all!

The all steel cassette is big and heavy. At that point, my brother was unsure whether the new cassette would fit the existing freehub body. I was 100% sure it would.

To Jacek's big surprise, the CS-M5100 (11-51T) cassette perfectly fit the HG freehub body. Why shouldn't it?

The SL-5100 shifter has come with both the cable core as well as a spare cable housing. As you can see here using an Innerbarend on the bars actually forces the need of using a "push-pull" shifter. The SRAM "push-push" shifter would be a no-go there! We set the shifter position meticuously, so it would work perfectly for my hand! I'm glad I got rid of the "optical gear indicator" which I don't need but which would only take the precious handlebar space!

I'm retaining the 42T Garbaruk chainring until the May/June gravel races. The chainring is perfect for riding my flat area. I will only swap the chainring for a 36T one when I need it for climbs during gravel marathons! I chose the KMC E11, 122 link chain. My calculation indicated 122 links would exactly be the number I'd need for the new drivetrain, and I was right!

Final adjustments before the first test ride to fine tune the derailleur indexing.

The new drivetrain is just excellent! The shifting is quiet and crisp. I do not need to worry for the low-end anymore. My typical ride gear with the 42T chainring is number 7 for fast cadence, or gear #8 for a slower pedalling. The fine tuning took me a 2 km ride, and the final ride on the new drivetrain was 40 km, no issues!

I'd like to thank all participants of this thread for enlightening information that helped me take the right choice and make the decision!

 

[Dazmanturbo]

Time to find some big hills and test it. Sub 1 to 1 is great for the steep stuff.

 

[Bavi]

Stefan, I fitted the same Shimano shifter, cassette and derailleur to my home e-bike conversion that I built (before I bought my Como last year). It functioned really smoothly, I'm sure you'll be really pleased with that setup, it should help very nicely with the steep hills

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Time to find some big hills and test it. Sub 1 to 1 is great for the steep stuff.

My intention is to temporarily change the chainring to 36T for a warm weekend and climb Góra Kalwaria (Mount Calvary) near Warsaw unassisted. It is the steepest hill we have in the entire Mazovia, haha! Honestly, we perhaps only have two similar hills in our province, the other being Czersk nearby

There are different opinions and data for both climbs. (I'd say not more than 10% grade). The raw cobblestone climb is a tricky one. I could make it once, on a race, full SL Turbo, 44-36T gearing and a lots of adrenalin Now, I need to make it unassisted!

The other race will involve very steep hills but I'm allowed to ride assisted there!

 

[Dazmanturbo]

My intention is to temporarily change the chainring to 36T for a warm weekend and climb Góra Kalwaria (Mount Calvary) near Warsaw unassisted. It is the steepest hill we have in the entire Mazovia, haha! Honestly, we perhaps only have two similar hills in our province, the other being Czersk nearby

View attachment 172540
There are different opinions and data for both climbs. (I'd say not more than 10% grade). The raw cobblestone climb is a tricky one. I could make it once, on a race, full SL Turbo, 44-36T gearing and a lots of adrenalin Now, I need to make it unassisted!

The other race will involve very steep hills but I'm allowed to ride assisted there!

If you are not allowed to use the motor, is it worth removing the battery and save a few kilos?

 

[Stefan Mikes]

If you are not allowed to use the motor, is it worth removing the battery and save a few kilos?

Yes. It is just two kilogram or so, still doable.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Now, my Vado SL 4.0 EQ has been converted to a non-EQ with a 36T chainring. The chain length is 118 links.

 

[CodyDog]

Yes. It is just two kilogram or so, still doable.

Intersting.

 

[LazyJ]

FYI, this $8 part Y0CR21000 gets rid of the 'optical gear indicator' on Deore shifters. In theory you should replace the clamp part also but a knife will remove the tiny piece of plastic on it that obviously has to come off. Indicator was constantly snagging my gloves after twiddling with my Wahoo.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

The latest iteration. See a Giant Trance E+ with Shimano 12s drivetrain M7100 in the background.