Radrover Controller & Display Upgrade Kit

[thatdude902]

This controller upgrade has started me on a path of near $1000 of upgrades and I couldn't be happier. Controller + motor first, then hydraulic brakes, and now a 52V 17.5Ah battery. Bought this one on AliExpress (took 12 days). I got the 40A one, because why not it's just a little bit more. Unit Pack power seems to get some recommendations on reddit & endless sphere. It's about 2.2 pounds heavier than my old 11.6Ah battery.

Installing the battery requires some soldering, had to cut the wire on the controller & solder in the new connectors. Anyway, performance was amazing. I hit 31 mph on throttle alone, that was after I went a few miles already, including one stretch in the park where I went 30 mph up a slight incline (while pedaling). I went a little over 31 a few times pedaling. I was spinning ok (years on road bikes) so I'm not sure I'll get a bigger chainring yet.

Anyway, here's how that battery fits on our frame:

 

[spmckinnon]

This controller upgrade has started me on a path of near $1000 of upgrades and I couldn't be happier. Controller + motor first, then hydraulic brakes, and now a 52V 17.5Ah battery. Bought this one on AliExpress (took 12 days). I got the 40A one, because why not it's just a little bit more. Unit Pack power seems to get some recommendations on reddit & endless sphere. It's about 2.2 pounds heavier than my old 11.6Ah battery.

Installing the battery requires some soldering, had to cut the wire on the controller & solder in the new connectors. Anyway, performance was amazing. I hit 31 mph on throttle alone, that was after I went a few miles already, including one stretch in the park where I went 30 mph up a slight incline (while pedaling). I went a little over 31 a few times pedaling. I was spinning ok (years on road bikes) so I'm not sure I'll get a bigger chainring yet.

Anyway, here's how that battery fits on our frame:

https://imgur.com/0mKXcg1

I'm so proud of you. She's an absolute beauty. You've taken the Radrover to the performance.

I've always been curious about a 52V upgrade but have been too afraid to start soldering.

1) Are you able to provide any insight into how just the battery upgrade affected performance?
2) Was the Battery mount compatible with the existing mounting screw positions?
3) Is it a 1A charger?

 

[spmckinnon]

Finally took my 2018 Radrover out for a longer ride today to really test out the motor, controller and freewheel upgrades.

Wow. I've finally reached the performance I've been seeking since the first ride with this bike (i was a little disappointed when I first got the bike).

The motor (on top of the controller) has provided additional torque and top speed is now:
- 50Km/h w/ pas5 + peddling
- 35km/h w/ pas5 + peddling on 25% grade hill

Didn't test with throttle alone as I have a bit of battery anxiety now. I will say if you don't push the bike too hard with the throttle or PAS above 3 the battery drain doesn't seem to be that much more dramatic.
I should have made the freewheel upgrade a long time ago. I can now actually contribute to the energy of the bike above 33km/h with a normal cadence. I'm actually shifting gears again and pedaling at top speed also reduces battery usage whereas before at top speed I had no choice to be battery only.

I've also changed the way I ride the bike now.
I typically keep it in PAS3 (for battery conservation), from stop I'll pedal and full throttle to get the bike up to cruising speed (35/40 km/h), then continue pedaling to maintain a decent speed.
That full throttle is incredibly satisfying, knowing you have that extra power when you need it is fantastic, even if you aren't using it all the time, its there when you need it.
If I need to quickly get infront of a car or bike or exit an intersection I'll full throttle the bike for additional speed.

In terms of wattage now, full throttle up a hill or from a stop gets the wattage up to 1400. When cruising at 45km/h and pedaling with PAS3 the wattage sits around 500W which is awesome.

Anyone considering these upgrades I highly recommend it. Thanks to @thatdude902 for the motor upgrade recommendation. Now to consider that battery upgrade

 

[thatdude902]

Oh crap, I just realized I did that whole ride in PAS 3. I can't wait to try PAS 5. The higher voltage pushes the motor to higher number of revolutions. I mainly wanted more capacity, the old 11.6Ah felt a little limiting. the extra 3-4 mph is a welcome benefit.

The mounting holes fit the 3 screws positions without issues. Make sure you get the new mounting plate with the 4 mounting slot holes. The charger is a 2.5 Amp one.

 

[spmckinnon]

Oh crap, I just realized I did that whole ride in PAS 3. I can't wait to try PAS 5. The higher voltage pushes the motor to higher number of revolutions. The mounting holes fit the 3 screws positions without issues. Make sure you get the new mounting plate with the 4 mounting slot holes. The charger is a 2.5 Amp one.

Can you elaborate more on the specifics of the installation and soldering? Any idea how much more capacity in terms of distance this battery gives you over the stock Radrover battery?

Also any idea what difference in performance the two amperage options would equate too? It says the 40A is for 1200W to 1500W motors.

 

[thatdude902]

I opened up the controller with the idea of soldering the red & black wires directly to the circuit board. But after looking at the board, it seemed more trouble than it was worth so I simply cut the 2 wires inside the controller, fed the new wires into the old rubber grommets and did the soldering & shrink tube inside the controller. It was simply red to red, black to black. Could have just cut the wire outside the controller.

My battery mount came with what are called Anderson connectors, I bought some XT90 connectors and was going to use them but after a little google research, the Anderson connectors seem good enough. Btw, they provided the connectors & wires (~ 7 inches long) for the controller side. Could have requested XT90 when buying the battery, I wasn't sure if it would have added a little extra time so I didn't.

I don't ride in the rain but I might try to waterproof the connectors a little bit later.

Capacity wise, it's usually calculated in watt hours, which is Ah x voltage. So 52v x 17.5 Ah is 910 watt hour, whereas 48v x 11.6Ah is 556.8.

And I don't know if 40A is necessary, but it since our controller outputs a max of 35A, why not.

 

[spmckinnon]

Based on that calculation, then wouldn't it be almost double the watt/hours? Does that equate to double the energy? If so that's fantastic.

 

[AHicks]

I know this would defeat the purpose of Rad Rover, but I wonder how fast it would go without fat tires.

My Juiced had a 700C x 45 tires, which is much skinnier than normal MTB tires, but then I switched to 700C x 32, which made a pretty noticeable difference.

We know that fat tires are inefficient and heavy if you're looking to go faster, so I'm very curious what it can do..

Timpo, the conversion work I did on my Rad City, which uses 16x2.5 tires (or something close to that), uses a controller that is very similar (or possibly the same) as that supplied in these kits, as well as the LCD3 display. Additionally, my bike has a 1500w direct drive motor. When everything was first installed, I had it up to 35mph or so, and while it was still accelerating briskly, I shut it down for lack of room, concern for the 1500w draw on my stock '18 Rad battery, and well, the fact going that fast on a bicycle was a little disconcerting. I have little doubt it would reach speeds of 40+ if allowed. This would be throttle only as you can't peddle that fast, even when using the 11t freewheel.

As I have no need for that kind of speed, my bike, using the setup menu in the LCD3, has had the max amperage avialble to the motor set at 1000-1100w, and top speed set to 22mph.

I do plan on converting the bike to a gear drive rear hub one of these days, possibly the 1200w MAC 12t.

 

[SpiderDice]

...

Is that the Juiced Bikes horn/alarm?

 

[thatdude902]

Is that the Juiced Bikes horn/alarm?

Yep, it the Juiced version. The horn is great, I haven't really needed the alarm part. If you do a search for "usb horn" on aliexpress, you can find it cheaper but in a different color both with or without the alarm function.

 

[thatdude902]

I know this would defeat the purpose of Rad Rover, but I wonder how fast it would go without fat tires.

My Juiced had a 700C x 45 tires, which is much skinnier than normal MTB tires, but then I switched to 700C x 32, which made a pretty noticeable difference.

We know that fat tires are inefficient and heavy if you're looking to go faster, so I'm very curious what it can do..

Yep, heavy and loud. Those fat Kenda produces a ridiculous buzz & whine at over 30 mph. I'm betting people can hear it a block away. But I want to wear these out first before going to smooth tires.

I did some no load throttle test on each setup as I went along. Basically theoretical speed that it would continue to assist. No load while sitting on the stand. Interesting for comparing:

Stock controller + stock motor: 25 mph

- Real world: I've seen this, 24.8 mph, but had to work for it.

35A controller + stock motor: 29 mph

- Real world: I think I saw 26 mph, but I only had one ride with this setup.

35A controller + 750w motor: 33 mph

- Real world: I saw over 28 mph, but I was mostly just running errands when I had this setup.

35A controller + 750w motor + 52 v battery: 37 mph

- Real world: Only one ride so far with this setup, I saw 31.6 mph, wasn't working that hard either.

Edit: added some real world observe speeds to those no load speeds.

 

[AHicks]

ah I see, so I guess with that kind of power, you're not interested in more speed.
My bike had 15A 6mosfet controller, which I later upgraded to 20A 9mosfet. The LED display was upgraded to LCD digital display too.. but yea, compare to your bike, it's no contest.

I think you need to get a new chainring though.
I have 11T sprocket and 52T chainring, and it is still a stock setting.
Juiced offers 56T option.

If you go on AliExpress, there are tons of 56T, 58T and 60T chainrings. I think 42T is hilariously low..

Stock chain ring works fine for my purposes (with self imposed 20mph speed limit in mind).

 

[spmckinnon]

Your comparison does not make sense to me..

What do you mean by "stock motor"? Did you mean Canadian model that's restricted to 500W?
And the 750W is the US model?
You do realize that both Canadian and US motors are identical right? (Unless I got the fact wrong?)

That's what they did with Juiced bikes too.. Juiced's Bafang hub motor started with 350W, then got upgraded to 500W, then 650W.. but the motor stayed identical.
They were all powered by SWX02 motor, what changed was the speed controller, battery voltage and display, which resulted in different power rating.

The "stock motor" and "750W motor" are identical. They're powered by Bafang RMG06 (or some people call it RM G060).
The output is not determined by the motor, but battery and controller.
If you have 35A controller and 52V battery, that's 1820W... I'm a little puzzled how you got 750W.

Sorry if I missed something or didn't understand.. but I'm actually a little confused.

Watch this video:

 

[thatdude902]

Your comparison does not make sense to me..

What do you mean by "stock motor"? Did you mean Canadian model that's restricted to 500W?
And the 750W is the US model?
You do realize that both Canadian and US motors are identical right? (Unless I got the fact wrong?)

That's what they did with Juiced bikes too.. Juiced's Bafang hub motor started with 350W, then got upgraded to 500W, then 650W.. but the motor stayed identical.
They were all powered by SWX02 motor, what changed was the speed controller, battery voltage and display, which resulted in different power rating.

The "stock motor" and "750W motor" are identical. They're powered by Bafang RMG06 (or some people call it RM G060).
The output is not determined by the motor, but battery and controller.
If you have 35A controller and 52V battery, that's 1820W... I'm a little puzzled how you got 750W.

Sorry if I missed something or didn't understand.. but I'm actually a little confused.

You are missing something really big in this thread, the stock motor on any Radrover (likely the Mini too) is under spec, US or Canadian. 2 people have posted pictures comparing the stock "750w" motor with its smaller magnets than a real 750w we bought from aliexpress. See this youtube video. Our pictures confirm what's in that video.

 

[J0nG0m]

Your comparison does not make sense to me..

What do you mean by "stock motor"? Did you mean Canadian model that's restricted to 500W?
And the 750W is the US model?
You do realize that both Canadian and US motors are identical right? (Unless I got the fact wrong?)

That's what they did with Juiced bikes too.. Juiced's Bafang hub motor started with 350W, then got upgraded to 500W, then 650W.. but the motor stayed identical.
They were all powered by SWX02 motor, what changed was the speed controller, battery voltage and display, which resulted in different power rating.

The "stock motor" and "750W motor" are identical. They're powered by Bafang RMG06 (or some people call it RM G060).
The output is not determined by the motor, but battery and controller.
If you have 35A controller and 52V battery, that's 1820W... I'm a little puzzled how you got 750W.

Sorry if I missed something or didn't understand.. but I'm actually a little confused.

I think he is trying to say that the "Stock Motor" isn't 750w nominal, and that the replacement is 750w nominal.

 

[AHicks]

I think there may be some confusion.

Motors are generally rated for their ability to dissipate heat. The better the motor dissipates heat, the more wattage you can feed it.

When talking controllers, it's about how much power you can run through them without overheating them.

Regarding a bike that's rated for 500w, it safe to say only that SOMETHING in that bike's systems is limiting that bike's ability to carry anything higher. Could be the motor, could be the controller (or in this case, the setup within the controller's display unit), could even be the battery or the battery's BMS. Only some experimenting/detective work can tell you for sure.

 

[spmckinnon]

This controller upgrade has started me on a path of near $1000 of upgrades and I couldn't be happier. Controller + motor first, then hydraulic brakes, and now a 52V 17.5Ah battery. Bought this one on AliExpress (took 12 days). I got the 40A one, because why not it's just a little bit more. Unit Pack power seems to get some recommendations on reddit & endless sphere. It's about 2.2 pounds heavier than my old 11.6Ah battery.

Installing the battery requires some soldering, had to cut the wire on the controller & solder in the new connectors. Anyway, performance was amazing. I hit 31 mph on throttle alone, that was after I went a few miles already, including one stretch in the park where I went 30 mph up a slight incline (while pedaling). I went a little over 31 a few times pedaling. I was spinning ok (years on road bikes) so I'm not sure I'll get a bigger chainring yet.

Anyway, here's how that battery fits on our frame:

I went ahead and ordered myself the 40A version. Thanks for the link, I hope the installation process isn't too bad. Time to learn how to solder.

 

[spmckinnon]

Anyway, here's how that battery fits on our frame:

On the product page it lists a number of connector options you can request, which one did you request? None of these look compatible. I wonder if I could request one that fits our controller!?

 

[AHicks]

What does Bolton's kit use for a connector? If it connects to your stock Rad battery without modification, you need to change that connection to avoid a bottleneck in your power delivery. It's way too small for what you are trying to accomplish.

 

[thatdude902]

On the product page it lists a number of connector options you can request, which one did you request? None of these look compatible. I wonder if I could request one that fits our controller!?

View attachment 32527

I got number 7 by not making any request. Supposedly that's the default for shipping to USA if you don't make request. And # 1 looks like an anti spark xt90, that's supposed to be the preferred for high power stuff. One benefit of getting #7 was that it fit's the original rubber grommet on the frame, just barely & one connector at a time by slicing open an inch or so of the shrink tubing.

And congrads on your new 50 kph on-throttle-alone moped.

Edit: oh the Bolton kit uses the same one as Rad uses, some waterproof connector that I'm not sure is meant for 35 Amps.